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Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

  1. #51
    Jamnuts jhawley's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research


    wagons are a dying breed.

    late to the party, but i loved the golf all track for dad duty but ddint pull the trigger because at the time march 2018 there was no discounting on the price (and they were starting to be leftover models) and it was kinda small inside.
    i never got a chance to drive the buick tourx but they are holding their values, and purely for a money stand point my wife hurt my feelings by saying that your going to spend 28 grand on a 3 year old discontinued buick. (which pushed me into the ridgeline)

    the new volvo stuff is nice. but im not sure how much i trust the super/turbo charged engine in them. I looked at a newer of the old body style XC models and they were dated and pricey

    If you could find a nice benz e-class wagon and ride the wheels of that, they are amazing cars. (fun fact buyers of those are benz's most affluent customers)


    As for the sedans:

    Mazda6 all day. great engine, they have updated the tech, despite being an older car (I sold them new in 2013) they have done a good job keeping it relevant.
    the inline6 rwd is never coming mazda doesn't have the bankroll to do it. The 6 will be replaced with a midsize crossover.

    I would look at a Kia stinger or the VW arteon. they are liftbacks with good cargo space and styling that isnt bland.

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    Last edited by jhawley; 07-31-21 at 09:27 AM.

  2. #52
    Lifer
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    wagons are a dying breed.

    late to the party, but i loved the golf all track for dad duty but ddint pull the trigger because at the time march 2018 there was no discounting on the price (and they were starting to be leftover models) and it was kinda small inside.
    i never got a chance to drive the buick tourx but they are holding their values, and purely for a money stand point my wife hurt my feelings by saying that your going to spend 28 grand on a 3 year old discontinued buick. (which pushed me into the ridgeline)

    the new volvo stuff is nice. but im not sure how much i trust the super/turbo charged engine in them. I looked at a newer of the old body style XC models and they were dated and pricey

    If you could find a nice benz e-class wagon and ride the wheels of that, they are amazing cars. (fun fact buyers of those are benz's most affluent customers)


    As for the sedans:

    Mazda6 all day. great engine, they have updated the tech, despite being an older car (I sold them new in 2013) they have done a good job keeping it relevant.
    the inline6 rwd is never coming mazda doesn't have the bankroll to do it. The 6 will be replaced with a midsize crossover.

    I would look at a Kia stinger or the VW arteon. they are liftbacks with good cargo space and styling that isnt bland.
    Spot on. Forget about the Stinger. The Arteon is under rated due to the admission price, but the left overs are discounted heavily. A lot of room and versatility from the hatchback. My 2019 Mazda 6 touring rental blew me away. It was a non turbo, but everything just clicked. Good handing, excellent steering, comfortable, looked much more expensive than it costs and was much better to drive tthan I expected. If it was available with a manual I probably would have traded in my old BMW!

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    Jamnuts jhawley's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    it was avail with a manual and no one brought them.
    and mazda has a high take rate for sticks shifts there.

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  4. #54
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by dankatz View Post
    Unfortunately, no. Still a very small percent of sales - hence Volvo dropping the V90 wagon in the US. Gone are the days of the excellent Passat wagon. I remember buying a new one, with sunroof/leather, manual transmission in 2002. We had it for 10.5 years until it was totaled. Terrific car with amazing rear seand trunk space for the size of the car (184.6" long). //
    Luckily for wagon fans, you can buy a "Sports Activity Vehicle" from BMW.

    Here are the specs:

    Spec BMW X3 2006 Outback 3.0R
    Length 186" 188
    Width 74 70
    Height 66 64
    Clearance 7.2 7.6
    Weight 4,041 3,620
    HP 248 250
    Torque 258 220

    But wagon bad, Crossover gud.

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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    nice...but a little too small for my needs
    No dog in the fight but this is the rear cargo area with seats forward.


    Compared to a Gen 3 OBW.

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  6. #56
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    wagons are a dying breed.

    late to the party, but i loved the golf all track for dad duty but ddint pull the trigger because at the time march 2018 there was no discounting on the price (and they were starting to be leftover models) and it was kinda small inside.
    i never got a chance to drive the buick tourx but they are holding their values, and purely for a money stand point my wife hurt my feelings by saying that your going to spend 28 grand on a 3 year old discontinued buick. (which pushed me into the ridgeline)

    the new volvo stuff is nice. but im not sure how much i trust the super/turbo charged engine in them. I looked at a newer of the old body style XC models and they were dated and pricey

    If you could find a nice benz e-class wagon and ride the wheels of that, they are amazing cars. (fun fact buyers of those are benz's most affluent customers)


    As for the sedans:

    Mazda6 all day. great engine, they have updated the tech, despite being an older car (I sold them new in 2013) they have done a good job keeping it relevant.
    the inline6 rwd is never coming mazda doesn't have the bankroll to do it. The 6 will be replaced with a midsize crossover.

    I would look at a Kia stinger or the VW arteon. they are liftbacks with good cargo space and styling that isnt bland.
    thanks...yea the alltrack a little small for me and i don't trust vw reliability over the long haul...the last year the tourx was offered was 2020 and your wife was right, would be expensive even to go used and the newest i can find is a 2018 so i'm probably going to pass on it...volvo and bmw is too expensive for me (hoping to stay under $30k) and i'm not sold on reliability...the mazda is near the top of my list as i drove my old one over 200k miles before i sold it...that sucks that it's getting discontinued...i wonder what the crossover will be...the stinger and the arteon are too expensive for me and i don't trust vw reliability

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Luckily for wagon fans, you can buy a "Sports Activity Vehicle" from BMW.

    Here are the specs:

    Spec BMW X3 2006 Outback 3.0R
    Length 186" 188
    Width 74 70
    Height 66 64
    Clearance 7.2 7.6
    Weight 4,041 3,620
    HP 248 250
    Torque 258 220

    But wagon bad, Crossover gud.
    i'd opt for the outback over any bmw but i think i'm out when it comes to subaru after dealing with the oil consumption issues of my legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    No dog in the fight but this is the rear cargo area with seats forward.


    Compared to a Gen 3 OBW.
    thanks...prius v cargo capacity looks pretty good...last year they were offered was 2017 though...but it seems so small as far as passenger space goes...are there any new models that are comparable?...the mileage figures seem to be better on the newer models

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  7. #57
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post



    i'd opt for the outback over any bmw but i think i'm out when it comes to subaru after dealing with the oil consumption issues of my legacy


    You're going to find lots of new cars with low tension rings burning oil from the get go and increasing as they age.

    We're coming full circle. It used to be check the oil at every fill up and then went to never check it, doesn't burn a drop. Now it's smart to check every few thousand at minimum. Between the rings, motors running hotter and thinner oils in general, some of it is gonna disappear.

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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    You're going to find lots of new cars with low tension rings burning oil from the get go and increasing as they age.

    We're coming full circle. It used to be check the oil at every fill up and then went to never check it, doesn't burn a drop. Now it's smart to check every few thousand at minimum. Between the rings, motors running hotter and thinner oils in general, some of it is gonna disappear.
    There were several years of H4’s that had excessive oil consumption. The warranty was extended to 100K.

    If you suspected you had a burner - and they were using a quart every 400-700 miles - you took it to the dealer.

    In order to be eligible for a short block replacement, you must go to an authorized Subaru dealership and request an oil consumption test.

    Under the test, the dealership will change your vehicle's oil and oil filter and then ask you to drive, as normal, for 1,200 miles. When you reach 1,200 miles you bring the car back and they measure the volume of oil left in the vehicle.

    If the vehicle has consumed more than 1/3 of a quart (or 10.6 ounces) it may be eligible for a short block replacement. Anything less and it'll be considered operating as expected.
    But a lot of people didn’t know about it. Or they took it to the dealer for the test, and somehow, unbelievably, managed to return it without having consumed enough oil.

    http://www.subarucomplaints.com/oil-consumption/

    Before buying the Prius V we identified several problem areas - two of which are now covered under special warranties. The head gasket problems are not included.

    The lowest maintenance costs in our fleet of (over the years) Chevrolet, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, and Subaru were Chevrolets.

    But Gen X’ers won’t buy domestic brands.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 08-03-21 at 01:04 AM.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    ///thanks...prius v cargo capacity looks pretty good...last year they were offered was 2017 though...but it seems so small as far as passenger space goes...are there any new models that are comparable?...the mileage figures seem to be better on the newer models
    Of course it was taken off the market here - it was a wagon!

    Honda Accord wagon, Toyota Camry wagon, Acura TSX wagon, Mazda 6 wagon, Taurus wagon, Buick TourX, BMW 5 Series wagon: all dead. Plus more I’m forgetting. Even Subaru SUV-ized the Outback in Gen IV [2010].

    Mercedes still calls their E class a wagon. Not a big deal since Crossovers do exactly the same stuff.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 08-03-21 at 01:16 AM.
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    There were several years of H4’s that had excessive oil consumption. The warranty was extended to 100K.

    If you suspected you had a burner - and they were using a quart every 400-700 miles - you took it to the dealer.



    But a lot of people didn’t know about it. Or they took it to the dealer for the test, and somehow, unbelievably, managed to return it without having consumed enough oil.

    http://www.subarucomplaints.com/oil-consumption/

    Before buying the Prius V we identified several problem areas - two of which are now covered under special warranties. The head gasket problems are not included.

    The lowest maintenance costs in our fleet of (over the years) Chevrolet, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, and Subaru were Chevrolets.

    But Gen X’ers won’t buy domestic brands.
    The Subaru oil consumption issue has been talked about many times here. The point remains other manufacturers have had issues with it as well and seems to be a fact of life to some degree with modern engines again.

    Prius people are special. The majority are mechanically illiterate, have unrealistic expectations and absolutely obsess over the little things. To listen to some of them a car that needs repair before 300k is a piece of shit

    I personally don't find it unreasonable you might need to replace a headgasket in 200k, but that seems to be the current freak out in the Prius world on the Gen 3 cars. The only thing that scares me is the brake accumulator, especially since coverage ends this month. The inverter issue is no NBD though it could be a PITA if it strands you somewhere. By far, it's been the most reliable car I've owned and I pound on it. It even held up better then a Camry for me. My GM truck needs way more care and feeding on the other hand.

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  11. #61
    Jamnuts jhawley's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Had a Lexus CT200h for a few years in the family, basically a prius in a better wrapper. was a expensive buy great little car

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  12. #62
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    There were several years of H4’s that had excessive oil consumption. The warranty was extended to 100K.

    If you suspected you had a burner - and they were using a quart every 400-700 miles - you took it to the dealer.



    But a lot of people didn’t know about it. Or they took it to the dealer for the test, and somehow, unbelievably, managed to return it without having consumed enough oil.

    http://www.subarucomplaints.com/oil-consumption/

    Before buying the Prius V we identified several problem areas - two of which are now covered under special warranties. The head gasket problems are not included.

    The lowest maintenance costs in our fleet of (over the years) Chevrolet, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, and Subaru were Chevrolets.

    But Gen X’ers won’t buy domestic brands.
    mine is def one of them...i put 1 quart in every ~800-1,000 miles...i had over 100k miles when the class action suit went through so it didn't help me any

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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Renting a 2020 Ford Edge this week: wanted an Escape but this is what they gave me.

    Shows just how competitive this segment is. 2.0L EcoBoost with 8 speed auto nd AWD. Drivetrain is very good, very good mpg (high 20ís) with decent acceleration. Body structure is solid. Very roomy, quiet, good ride.

    Cons are less feedback than I like from steering, seats are comfortable but minimal lateral support, bland styling and audio system doesnít seem to be able to display apps like Waze. First three probably the same in competitors.

    Itís a mid pack seller in one of the most competitive market segments led by Explorer, Outlander and Pilot.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research-73175e0d-ae2b-4fb6-975a-e665f8f7d703  

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  14. #64
    Lifer golden chicken's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    First gen Edges ate rear wheel bearings in my small sample size of a couple of customers.

    And they were weird that whichever side you thought the sound was coming from was the opposite of the side it needed.

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  15. #65
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    I think I'm gonna try to lease a 2022 Golf R if its possible when they come out. I don't reallllllly need one now, but if I put the minimum miles, it should be relatively affordable and then leaves me with an option to buy in 3 years. It also solves my east coast car problem.

    Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

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  16. #66
    Lifer
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    I think I'm gonna try to lease a 2022 Golf R if its possible when they come out. I don't reallllllly need one now, but if I put the minimum miles, it should be relatively affordable and then leaves me with an option to buy in 3 years. It also solves my east coast car problem.

    Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
    Awesome car. Watch some of the YouTube videos from the UK by carwow where they drag race it. It destroys the competition. It probably makes closer to 350 HP

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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    daddy like. would also toss in a Mazda3 turbo AWD. that little fucker is nice inside. and about as small as the golf. If price is the same then golf all day, but if you can save some cash on the mazda its worthy to consider

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  18. #68
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Realized yesterday the sexy looking Audi wagon I've been seeing in the kid pickup line is an RS6 Avant.

    Starting at $ 109,000
    How dafaq!

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  19. #69
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    This is way out of left field but have you considered a Chevy Trax? My wife loves hers and she so didnt want it. AWD that works almost as good as my our old crosstrek, 35mpg steadily, even though it says you cant i tow my 5x8 trailer with my big ass zero turn all over the place with it and so far so good, and it hasnt had a single issue in over 20k miles. I bet at least 3k of those miles are towing from mass to upstate ny too.
    The 1.4 turbo engine is good too, plenty fast. Its so smooth you cant tell its a turbo. You can chip it to get another 30hp and 50tq easily if you wanted, ive driven one tuned and the second the warranty is up its going in. I think its one of the cheapest awd 's you can buy other than a few roo's too. My wifes is a fully loaded redline edition. It grows on you.

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  20. #70
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by boosten lebaron View Post
    This is way out of left field but have you considered a Chevy Trax? My wife loves hers and she so didnt want it. AWD that works almost as good as my our old crosstrek, 35mpg steadily, even though it says you cant i tow my 5x8 trailer with my big ass zero turn all over the place with it and so far so good, and it hasnt had a single issue in over 20k miles. I bet at least 3k of those miles are towing from mass to upstate ny too.
    The 1.4 turbo engine is good too, plenty fast. Its so smooth you cant tell its a turbo. You can chip it to get another 30hp and 50tq easily if you wanted, ive driven one tuned and the second the warranty is up its going in. I think its one of the cheapest awd 's you can buy other than a few roo's too. My wifes is a fully loaded redline edition. It grows on you.
    thanks...the trunk depth and volume on the trax is a little too small...if i go suv i'd probably go to a rav4 hybrid...if i go truck i like the maverick hybrid...if i go sedan i'd go 6/camry hybrid/accord hybrid...but i feel like i'm looking for something that doesn't exist...a hybrid wagon at a reasonable price that's reliable...trunk depth and volume is a big one for me

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    Jamnuts jhawley's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by boosten lebaron View Post
    have you considered a Chevy Trax? It grows on you.
    So do STD's.

    You couldn't pay me to drive one of those. I rather slam my dick in a car door.

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  22. #72
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Running the fuel cost numbers on a RAV4 Prime. EPA stated 36 kWh/100 miles on battery-only mode. My electric cost is $0.18672/kWh (Eversource NH). This equates to $6.72 per 100mi on battery only. At $3/gallon of gasoline, this is the cost equivalent of 44.6 mpg. However, Car and Driver's observed battery-only range on the RAV4 Prime was only 32mi, vs the 42mi state by Toyota/EPA (32/42 = 76%). If I apply this 76% factor to the 44.6 mpg figure, that gets me 34 mpg. The EPA claims 38 mpg for the RAV4 Hybrid, Car and Driver observed 37 mpg. So it would seem that I am better off going with the regular Hybrid, even when assuming 100% battery-only operation of the RAV4 Prime. Hoping someone can poke a hole in my math so I can justify buying the 300hp rocket.

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  23. #73
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Neat, the math actually works better for the Wrangler 4XE... that's just wierd.

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  24. #74
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    Running the fuel cost numbers on a RAV4 Prime. EPA stated 36 kWh/100 miles on battery-only mode. My electric cost is $0.18672/kWh (Eversource NH). This equates to $6.72 per 100mi on battery only. At $3/gallon of gasoline, this is the cost equivalent of 44.6 mpg. However, Car and Driver's observed battery-only range on the RAV4 Prime was only 32mi, vs the 42mi state by Toyota/EPA (32/42 = 76%). If I apply this 76% factor to the 44.6 mpg figure, that gets me 34 mpg. The EPA claims 38 mpg for the RAV4 Hybrid, Car and Driver observed 37 mpg. So it would seem that I am better off going with the regular Hybrid, even when assuming 100% battery-only operation of the RAV4 Prime. Hoping someone can poke a hole in my math so I can justify buying the 300hp rocket.
    Prime has tax credits....

    If I were buying a new hybrid right now I would absolutely buy a Prime.

    You don't have to plug it if you don't want to either.

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    Last edited by e30addict; 08-14-21 at 11:18 PM.
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  25. #75
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Wagon/Crossover/4 Door Sedan - Shopping/Research

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Prime has tax credits....
    Doesn't fully offset the purchase premium though. I think for my use case, its just not the answer, today. That being said, very easy to imagine my electric cost, gas price, or commute parameters changing enough to swing the balance.

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