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Is the Wrangler a convertible?

  1. #76
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?


    I think someone is doing it wrong. My experience in jeeps or ANY traditional 4WD vehicle is that they are largely unstoppable in normal snow. Now, they are not rally cars or anything, but should chug through about anything.

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  2. #77
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I think someone is doing it wrong. My experience in jeeps or ANY traditional 4WD vehicle is that they are largely unstoppable in normal snow. Now, they are not rally cars or anything, but should chug through about anything.
    So, we're back to the differences in expectations. Yes, my wrangler if I want to go full nut-hammer will absolutely maw through all sorts of things. It's got ground clearance for days, and full lockers mean if one is spinning, all four are. Instead of relying on traction you're using it as a 'snow rocket'. That doesn't mean it's not floaty and a PITA lacking traction on snow covered roads compared to other setups for 99.9% of the driving I do. I bought it to improve one corner case expecting not to loose ground on the bulk of my driving. Instead I have a vehicle that's distinctly worse in general winter conditions, but hey that one corner case is solved so... yay?

    The current demonstration case is my road, as noted my wife's Versa can currently climb it without issue. If I don't want to go full Collin McRae rally style I need to have the Jeep in 4hi at the moment, same conditions. It's a steep dirt road with a solid layer of snowpack right now, plowed so not much loose snow. The difference in vehicles? Her car is a solid 2000lbs lighter, and you're going to have to work to get it to wheel spin. Front wheel drive, nice narrow tires, dedicated snows. The Wrangler is a lead pig on wide tires, dedicated studded snows which help, but also RWD when not in 4. Takes more force to get that pig moving from a dead stop up a grade, and on wide tires with the weight biased to the wrong end before you get forward motion it spins one up and done. Flip to 4hi, if you ignore the possibility of traffic on the road and just roll out it'll make the climb as long as you don't stop. If you do, again it'll spin a front and rear before it'll start climbing, at which point 4lo and locked up is the only way to get it up, or back into my driveway and hope no one is coming when you shoot out onto the road for another attempt with momentum.

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  3. #78
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Yeah, I'm also very confused. Both my 2-door JK Sport and 2-door JK Rubicon were both fantastic in the snow with 33" non-studded Duratracs. Yes, it had to go in 4WD in anything deeper than 2-3 inches, but once in 4WD it was pretty much unstoppable.

    I will say that the 4WD system in the Jeep doesn't compare with a true AWD system when it comes to just putting around the town. The 4WD system is much more rugged and somewhat archaic, and is really meant for heavy duty offroading, and the TC is geared more towards offroad traction than on road traction.

    That said, the Jeep should still be a winter hero. I'm wondering if your tires are just garbage hard rubber with small tread block voids, or if maybe the studs are hurting more than they are helping.

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  4. #79
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    For the record, there are times in the summer where it'll spin up and get pissy going up my road in 2Hi too with the factory KO2s.

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  5. #80
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Some kind of black magic is going on up your road.

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  6. #81
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    We just bought an AWD subaru and had the same experience... couldn't get in to our unplowed driveway when we got it home! hahaa. But it is an STI on what are basically trackday tires. We will be getting snows.
    Was thinking this when I saw the Facebook posts about the purchase.............hmmmm I wonder if they got the winter wheel/tire package with the STI? If not, that thing is going to suck driving in the winter.

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  7. #82
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Some kind of black magic is going on up your road.
    There are seven houses on our little private road, three are rentals, one is for sale. Typically other than the one at the top of the hill the rentals don't last more than two winters... Then there is the main road itself, town maintained but depending on the storm they'll give up on our half of it at times.

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  8. #83
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    Was thinking this when I saw the Facebook posts about the purchase.............hmmmm I wonder if they got the winter wheel/tire package with the STI? If not, that thing is going to suck driving in the winter.
    Wheels/tires have been ordered. Racetires don't go on snow. I learned this back when I had a 77 mini on yokohama AO38s. It would slide to the shoulder due to the crown in the road. hahaaa.

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  9. #84
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    It won't fix your big floaty tire issue, but are you going to do the locker bypass on your Rubicon? Front and rear lockers in 4WH and rear in 2WD with no computer enforced speed limitations is pretty nice.

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  10. #85
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    It won't fix your big floaty tire issue, but are you going to do the locker bypass on your Rubicon? Front and rear lockers in 4WH and rear in 2WD with no computer enforced speed limitations is pretty nice.
    Few ways to get there, I can do it at the ECU level with an ODB module, and unlock all sorts of other stuff. Interestingly if you buy the MOPAR Aux Switch kit for self install instead of getting it at build time the instructions cover how to use the switches to control the OEM lockers directly. So... they'll show you how to bypass but won't just give you more control out of the crate? Weak. Being able to lock the rear in 2Hi or 4Hi would be nice, but I don't want to mod/spend on it unless I'm convinced I'm going to go long term with it and I'm not in that place yet.

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  11. #86
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    All Terrain tires are NOT snow tires, while the may perform better than an all season radial, they don't come close to performing as good as a true snow/ice tire

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  12. #87
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    All Terrain tires are NOT snow tires, while the may perform better than an all season radial, they don't come close to performing as good as a true snow/ice tire
    I'm running studded Nokain Hakka LT3s, dedicated ice/snows.

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  13. #88
    Lifer
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    I think it all comes down to tires. I remember my 2000 Jeep being a beast in the snow, on the highway too, and my current TJ, is a beast getting of the driveway and getting down unplowed roads, but on the highway the all terrains I have on it makes it feel sketchy and sedans blow by me.

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  14. #89
    Lifer
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Or we can just blame Fiat.

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  15. #90
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    I'm running studded Nokain Hakka LT3s, dedicated ice/snows.
    hmmm.... every vehicle I have had with Hakks, went like tanks, with only rwd, VW Vanagon, Volvo 740 wagon, BMW 325e, no traction control in any of em

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  16. #91
    Lifer
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    I put 200lbs of wood pellets in the back of mine and it seemed to make a positive difference. Haven’t we gotten significantly slushy snow this year though? So without dedicated tires to channel that shit out it’s gonna be sketch? I dunno. I wish my Jeep would catch on fire.

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  17. #92
    Lifer
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    I thought studs really only work on ice, and actually work as a barrier against getting the rubber down to grip in snow?

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  18. #93
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    I'm thinkin you are experiencing the downfalls of the suspension/body of frame/etc design of the Heep along with the lack of any real smart traction control. They are also heavy which amplifies those very issues. Like legit half ton heavier than the (t)rusty old Tacoma. That's probably why back in my wheeling days, 3 tacomas would cross an iced over water hole, then the Rubicon would crash straight through and we'd have to pull him out.

    I know what you mean as far as lack of drama on modern AWD systems in slick stuff. Our CRV (cue garandman posting the uphill front tires on rollers video to disqualify it) is absolutely great in the shit, even on all season tires. And I live out in the middle of nowhere in a hilly region. Roads are covered for 3+ months a year, and only 1 of the 4 ways to get to our house isn't dirt.


    Width of his tire isn't causing all this. I'm on 265's all terrains and I have no issues at all. And I'm in a pickup that I leave in 2wd mode 99.95% of the time on snow with an even worse weight distribution.

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  19. #94
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    That’s a very nice way of saying “your ambition outweighed your talent,” Clayton.

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  20. #95
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    They are also heavy which amplifies those very issues. Like legit half ton heavier than the (t)rusty old Tacoma. That's probably why back in my wheeling days, 3 tacomas would cross an iced over water hole, then the Rubicon would crash straight through and we'd have to pull him out.
    weight is def compounding the issue. my DC Taco was way less fun and required a lot more thought in winter than my SC Taco or SC Canyon. i was bummed out the first winter i had the DC, super heavy making it feel less capable ... but, all of them always got me where i needed to go. (not talking about woods)

    Josh, can you swap wheels easy? not sure if you got a spare set for the Hakka's. that would be an easy test.

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  21. #96
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    I thought studs really only work on ice, and actually work as a barrier against getting the rubber down to grip in snow?
    Modern Friction tires work better than studded tires in most winter conditions and temperatures. But “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I'm a bit surprised by this as well. Skinny tires will do better, but a Jeep even with fat tires shouldn't struggle. We just bought an AWD subaru and had the same experience... couldn't get in to our unplowed driveway when we got it home! hahaa. But it is an STI on what are basically trackday tires. We will be getting snows.
    The winter tires for our WRX were in NH, and didn’t get them mounted before the first snow.

    There’s a modest hill up to the garage. With Michelin Pilot Sport+, the car was very happily spinning all four wheels, while sitting still.

    Had the idea to get out an take a video of the car sitting there, driverless and stationary, but my adult brain intervened. Took a 500’ run up to get into the garage.

    We went from 225 to 205 but won’t do that again. Might be a slight improvement in winter but is much twitchier in dry/wet.



    Really pleased with the Nokian CR3’s on the Sprinter. Been driving around, unloaded in all kinds of winter conditions. Always hate to spend the money on winter tires, than within a week it’s always proven worthwhile for safety and peace of mind.


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    Last edited by Garandman; 01-03-20 at 10:26 AM.

  22. #97
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Modern Friction tires work better than studded tires in most winter conditions and temperatures. But “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”
    LT3s ARE modern friction tires, with an option for modern studs. When my road ices up, the only thing traversing it are studs or chains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    There’s a modest hill up to the garage. With Michelin Pilot Sport+, the car was very happily spinning all four wheels, while sitting still.

    Had the idea to get out an take a video of the car sitting there, driverless and stationary, but my adult brain intervened.
    Golden opportunity missed.

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  23. #98
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    Josh, can you swap wheels easy? not sure if you got a spare set for the Hakka's. that would be an easy test.
    It's a Jeep, so for the most part wheels swap with a metric crapton of other Jeeps and Chrysler products over a huge range of years. That said I didn't get a second set of wheels, the tires themselves were expensive enough this time around.

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  24. #99
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    Re: Is the Wrangler a convertible?

    Anyone replace a Wrangler starter? Looks easy but things usually go south when I lift the hood!

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