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ACLU

  1. #26
    Lifer SEVENSGT's Avatar
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    Re: Re: ACLU


    Originally posted by RandyO
    A child has no civil rights?
    at what age do you think a child gains civil rights?

    I think there might be a little more to the story, leave out some of the information and you can spin it any way you like

    I have heard too many good things (like highsiders story) about ACLU to think they are a liberal PAC


    I agree with you randy(if you read some of the posts). There was an old lady that was knocked over and robbed by a young man. There was a teenage girl that lived in her mothers house, who recieved a phonecall from said hoodlum. Mom picked up the other line and listened as the hood told his girlfriend how he got this much money from knocking over the old lady, said mom calls the cops they arrest young hood. Trial goes on mom testifies to what was said on phone, ACLU stands up and says Mom infringed on her 14 yr old daughter civil right to privacy. The young hood was aquitted. I will be listening to almost every conversation my kids have if I suspect they are getting into any trouble, and believe me I 'KNOW' the signs

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  2. #27
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: ACLU

    Originally posted by SEVENSGT
    I agree with you randy(if you read some of the posts). There was an old lady that was knocked over and robbed by a young man. There was a teenage girl that lived in her mothers house, who recieved a phonecall from said hoodlum. Mom picked up the other line and listened as the hood told his girlfriend how he got this much money from knocking over the old lady, said mom calls the cops they arrest young hood. Trial goes on mom testifies to what was said on phone, ACLU stands up and says Mom infringed on her 14 yr old daughter civil right to privacy. The young hood was aquitted. I will be listening to almost every conversation my kids have if I suspect they are getting into any trouble, and believe me I 'KNOW' the signs

    Ah.... I think something is misreported... it was the hoodlum's rights to a private conversation that was infringed.

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  3. #28
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: ACLU

    Originally posted by RandyO
    Ah.... I think something is misreported... it was the hoodlum's rights to a private conversation that was infringed.
    He's got a point. It wasn't about the Daughter, it was about the hoodlum. Now if it was his OWN mom that overheard, then we'd have another situation here.

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  4. #29
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ACLU

    Originally posted by TheIglu
    He's got a point. It wasn't about the Daughter, it was about the hoodlum. Now if it was his OWN mom that overheard, then we'd have another situation here.
    I would be inclined to say the mother didn't violate any civil-rights. That hoodlum abandoned his 'civil right to a private call' when he called a minor.

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  5. #30
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    ACLU

    How about the ACLU going after the military to stop supporting the Boy Scouts?

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  6. #31
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    ACLU

    As someone who directly benefits from any support of the Boy Scouts of America, I can agree that no government body should provide funds to the organization. It is a religious organization and I feel religious organizations have no part in receiving my tax dollars.

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  7. #32
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    ACLU

    You wouldn't want tax dollars going towards something that enriches and educates youth in America?

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  8. #33
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Not if they exclude gays and athiests from their organization. Kid I went to high school with was a leader with me for a few years. When the ruling came down that kicked out gays, he had to leave. He was great with the kids and a positive influence on all those who working with him.

    The reason that the BSA executive board sites as why gays aren't allow: They do not conform to our moral/ethical guidelines. We don't want to be teaching kids that being an athiest or gay is ok.

    Tell me that's not fucked. Talk about forcing your beliefs on others. I sure as hell won't let me kids go into the BSA as long as they have inequal rules like this. It's rather strange. The rules they enact directly violate the rules the BSA was founded and ran upon.

    Just an FYI: the members of the BSA do not necessarily reflect the choices of the BSA governing body which is based in Texas. It is a business, and a very large one at that. The head executive scout makes over $500,000 a year in salary. They pass down the rules and unfortunatly do not allow region leaders to listen and follow their memeber's opinions on rules and regulations.

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  9. #34
    Littering and........
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    ACLU

    I got kicked out of the boy scouts for eating a brownie

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  10. #35
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by TheIglu
    It is a business, and a very large one at that. The head executive scout makes over $500,000 a year in salary. .

    Where can I find this info?

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  11. #36
    Lifer SEVENSGT's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: ACLU

    Originally posted by RandyO
    Ah.... I think something is misreported... it was the hoodlum's rights to a private conversation that was infringed.



    If he calls this womans home she has every right to listen to the call.



    ex. your 15 yr old son gets a call from this girl, you listen in to find out that she dealing drugs to kids. This constitutes a crime, the girl gives up her rights to privacy when she calls your home to talk to your son that you are trying to keep out of trouble. WHAT DO YOU DO....


    Personally I call the cops in. I give them all the info I have and if she calls again I tape the call.

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  12. #37
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
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    ACLU

    The BSA is a PRIVATE organization and as such they can make whatever rules they wish. They can discriminate against anyone they wish. PRIVATE club, guys!!!!! The government or anyone else has no right to tell them how to run their club, just like nobody can tell us at NESR how to run ours. Pretty simple, as long as the ACLU keeps their nose out of PRIVATE business.

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  13. #38
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ACLU

    Originally posted by SEVENSGT
    If he calls this womans home she has every right to listen to the call.



    ex. your 15 yr old son gets a call from this girl, you listen in to find out that she dealing drugs to kids. This constitutes a crime, the girl gives up her rights to privacy when she calls your home to talk to your son that you are trying to keep out of trouble. WHAT DO YOU DO....


    Personally I call the cops in. I give them all the info I have and if she calls again I tape the call.

    your right,that has the right to listen in on anything its her house/phone.... but she doesn't have the right to take away the rights of the person on the other end of the phone converation. If she wants to use the information to disapline her child, no problem, even reporting it to the cops is ok,

    BUT the cops can't use it as evidence in a court, they shoulda used it as a lead only

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  14. #39
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    Where can I find this info?
    I'd post a link, but there is none since it is private info not available to the public. Remeber, the BSA is a private business that does not have to publish their financial workings.

    I have been told by many scout executives that the head scout gets an annual salary of $500,000 a year. Keep in mind, this is a CEO of a multi-million dollar industry. The average starting salary for a entry-level management professional scout is $32,000 a year. It is a private organization that does select who can join and therefore is not open to anyone. That does not warrant government funding.

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  15. #40
    Everybody to the limit!
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    ACLU


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  16. #41
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by TheIglu
    I'd post a link, but there is none since it is private info not available to the public. Remeber, the BSA is a private business that does not have to publish their financial workings.

    I have been told by many scout executives that the head scout gets an annual salary of $500,000 a year. Keep in mind, this is a CEO of a multi-million dollar industry. The average starting salary for a entry-level management professional scout is $32,000 a year. It is a private organization that does select who can join and therefore is not open to anyone. That does not warrant government funding.
    Just because it's not open to atheists and homosexuals means that it doesn't warrant gov't cash. Look at all the $$ the US gov't spreads around to different special interest groups. At least with the BSA you have a group that helps cultivate real contributers to our society that in the end betters everyone. You only have to look to the levels of prominance former scouts have elevated themselves to.

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  17. #42
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    Just because it's not open to atheists and homosexuals means that it doesn't warrant gov't cash. Look at all the $$ the US gov't spreads around to different special interest groups. At least with the BSA you have a group that helps cultivate real contributers to our society that in the end betters everyone. You only have to look to the levels of prominance former scouts have elevated themselves to.
    Perhaps I should rephrase the meaning of my statement:

    I donate 2 straight weeks a year every August and countless tanks of gas to the BSA. I ask nothing in return.

    I don't want a dime of my tax money going to the organization.

    Former scouts don't equal good people. Trust me on this one. There may be a higher percentage that end up "elevating" themselves, but you go spend 15 years in the organization and then come tell me that it's a "good person factory".

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  18. #43
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    ACLU

    I am a card carrying member of the ACLU and the bottom line for me is they are there to uphold our civil liberties , it is very easy to pluck a couple of cases out to demonise the whole organisation but if you were to actually take a look at all their cases it makes for an interesting case study.
    One of the funnier cases involved an aryan front bunch who were defended by a lawyer on a freedom of speech case, they were handing out leaflets decrying the Jews taking over the world rant and the lawyer who sucessfully defended the case was ...wait for it........Jewish
    the point being that he was defending their right to free speech whether he personally agreed with it or not .
    By the way that bastion of conservative bombast Rush Limbaugh had one of his flunkies contact the ACLU to look at the legalities of the sate of florida seeking his medical records, which by the way they would gladly do just as they would for anyone else regardless of background.
    You never know when you just might need them and for me in these uncertain times they are very important to keep the government in check even tho it is increasingly difficult to do so these days ..
    They are our last line of defence against laws that would seek to strip us of our civil liberties and right to free association.......

    By the way it is nice to see the tone in this section fairly civil for the most part

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  19. #44
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by zombie

    By the way it is nice to see the tone in this section fairly civil for the most part
    Strange, ain't it!

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  20. #45
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by TheIglu
    Former scouts don't equal good people. Trust me on this one. There may be a higher percentage that end up "elevating" themselves, but you go spend 15 years in the organization and then come tell me that it's a "good person factory".
    I wouldn't expect every, or even the gross majority, to automatically be good people just because they were in the Scouts. The point is that they help to instill values, confidence, knowledge and various skills that make them better people. If you can't agree with that then why would you bother donating your time and money?

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  21. #46
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    ACLU

    I help to run a program that is specifically designed to take better than average scouts and train them to be leaders in their community. It is a "bring us your best, we'll make them better" camp. It is by no means a week meant for fun.

    I donate because it has helped me and giving my time and money to this particular program allows me to help out scouts who show that want to excel in life. It also allows me to not be part of the BSA organization. I will not give a dime of my money or a second of my time until the "values" they instill on boys agree with mine. It is an organization that is teaching by their entrance requirements that it is not acceptable to be gay or not believe in god.

    They have full legal right to set their entrance requirements however they want, and I have full legal right not to give my hard earned money to them because of that.

    We have our own budget, our own rules and do not give any of the money we take in that covers the cost of the camp to the BSA.

    I can also speak for the entire governing body of our program including youth staff (actual scouts) who disagree with the BSA policies. It is strange to realize, but the better the scout, the more chance they will disagree with the rules that the organization sets for it's members. And now you know why the numbers for the BSA are dwindling.

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  22. #47
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    ACLU

    I entered scouting at Tiger Cubs and made it all the way to Eagle. I don't disagree with the rules they set as far as homosexuals being leaders (would you allow males to lead girl scouts?) and requiring people to say 'God' in the Scout oath. As far as that goes, what's wrong with being respectful to other's beliefs? Should we have multiple oaths based on people's religious outlook? The tone of your posts seem to demonize the BSA, keep in mind this is not the Christian Coalition with some radical agenda.

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  23. #48
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    I entered scouting at Tiger Cubs and made it all the way to Eagle. I don't disagree with the rules they set as far as homosexuals being leaders (would you allow males to lead girl scouts?) and requiring people to say 'God' in the Scout oath. As far as that goes, what's wrong with being respectful to other's beliefs? Should we have multiple oaths based on people's religious outlook? The tone of your posts seem to demonize the BSA, keep in mind this is not the Christian Coalition with some radical agenda.
    it doesnt matter what the org. does or what it stands for... religon is a bad word these days...

    it's just like everything else...going from one extreme to another with no middle ground...people are starting to get really pathetic..

    seriously...good thing the greater population has had enough..

    I think it is was the whole Merry Christmas deal this year..


    Pretty these dipshits will want to ammend the constitution to say Freedom FROM religion instead of freedom of religion...

    I am not religous at all but what is going on with the christian religion these days is wrong...just like affirmative action....

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  24. #49
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    ACLU

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    I entered scouting at Tiger Cubs and made it all the way to Eagle. I don't disagree with the rules they set as far as homosexuals being leaders (would you allow males to lead girl scouts?) and requiring people to say 'God' in the Scout oath. As far as that goes, what's wrong with being respectful to other's beliefs? Should we have multiple oaths based on people's religious outlook? The tone of your posts seem to demonize the BSA, keep in mind this is not the Christian Coalition with some radical agenda.
    Would you allow females to lead boy scouts?

    THEY DO!

    I do not want my tax dollars going to a private organization that descriminates based on a religious and sexual basis. How is this demonizing the BSA? I choose not to support them. That doesn't mean I want them disbanded, I just will not willfully give them my money until they are in line with my beliefs. I can't be forced to support them just as they can't be forced to change their policies. I was explaining why I choose not to support their policies.

    It's not a radical agenda, but it does influence boys who are at an impressionable age. They are, and there is no way to deny it, saying that living as a gay person is not morally acceptable.

    I'm no outsider preachin about things I know nothing about here. I think the BSA was a stronger organization that was more respected overall before they implemented the rules on homosexuality.

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  25. #50
    lost in space zombie's Avatar
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    ACLU

    I had a BSA once and a bigger piece of shit crap motorcycle i have yet to encounter. that BSA (bastard stopped again ) broke my fucking heart in trying to keep it going , and another classic example of thread bastardization brought to you by your local motorcycle freak

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