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A Case for Athiesim....

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    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
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    A Case for Athiesim....


    Ricky Gervais says it as well as I've heard it said in a short essay...

    http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/...im-an-atheist/

    And, Merry Christmas to all!!! (...and I really mean that...don't read any sarcasm into my holiday wish!)

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    Last edited by DucDave; 12-22-10 at 08:50 AM.
    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
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    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Relevant.



    P.S. I'm not an atheist and wish you a merry Christmas as well, or what ever else you do this time of year.

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    Last edited by obsolete; 12-22-10 at 08:43 AM.
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    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Merry Christmas you little skittles

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    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,” I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.
    pure gold...

    I don't think I ever believed in "god".
    I remember when I was 6 or 7 years old trying to explain evolution to my baby sitter.
    She dragged me into her kitchen and made fun of me in front of her mother and the neighbor. Standing there being laughed at by three old Christian ladies had a large impact on my view of organized religion.
    I remember just shaking my head and walking back outside to play.

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    Last edited by gadget; 12-22-10 at 09:49 AM.
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    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    Merry Christmas you little skittles
    You wanna taste the rainbow?

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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....


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    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    I like this one:

    75 percent of Americans are Christians
    75 percent of prison inmates are Christians

    10 percent of Americans are atheists
    0.2 percent of prison inmates are atheists

    I'm going to stick up a bank: they'll never suspect me.

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    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    so his argument was basically that once upon a time he had faith, then he realized that his mom and brother 'knew'(believed) that there was no god.. so he asked a lot of questions and factored in the Santa lie among others, and within an hour he was an atheist?

    and this is a sound argument to you?

    to me this is not an argument at all, it is a child losing faith in the absence of a supportive and nurturing environment...



    btw, I am not disrespectful of anyone's beliefs or their inalienable right to believe whatever they choose, and i am not even going to try to define my own beliefs here except to say that my belief system does not follow in any established path or book.

    A Merry Christmas (or whatever you celebrate) to you all.

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    Shock you -jro-'s Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    so his argument was basically that once upon a time he had faith, then he realized that his mom and brother 'knew'(believed) that there was no god.. so he asked a lot of questions and factored in the Santa lie among others, and within an hour he was an atheist?

    and this is a sound argument to you?

    to me this is not an argument at all, it is a child losing faith in the absence of a supportive and nurturing environment...



    btw, I am not disrespectful of anyone's beliefs or their inalienable right to believe whatever they choose, and i am not even going to try to define my own beliefs here except to say that my belief system does not follow in any established path or book.

    A Merry Christmas (or whatever you celebrate) to you all.
    I believe the argument is about validation, as addressed in his opening paragraph. Why do Christians feel the need to ask him why he doesn't believe in God? Why did his mother feel the need to protect him, to shut up his brother's inquiries?

    Define a "supportive and nurturing environment". That definition can change drastically from one viewpoint and perspective to another.

    all in all a good read, thanks for sharing.

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    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    You wanna taste the rainbow?



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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Nice thread before Christmas! I've gone thru a few different "stages" in my own spiritual development, including not believing in God. Here is what I've learned since then: People often become spiritually unfit and stop believing in God because they have run into a common misconception that their prayers are not answered, or that "if there was a god such and such wouldn't happen... ". The thing is, those people may be blocked off from God because of their own "sins", such as selfishness, self-centeredness, dishonesty, etc... . If you haven't gotten honest w/yourself about what could be blocking you from recieving God's grace, you will never have your prayers answered. Praying is another thing that is often confusing for some. We can pray for one thing only: God's Will. If we pray to win the lottery, chances are it won't happen. Not because God doesn't love us, but because it may not be part of God's plan for us. Bad things can happen to us, but just because we don't understand them at the moment, doesn't mean that it wasn't for the best in the big picture. I truly believe that God has a plan for each and everyone of us. What we have to do is be open to following God's will, not our own. When you can honestly admit your sins and truly desire to live God's plan for you, you will begin to see things happen in your life that no person could ever do for you, including yourself. Merry Christmas!

    -all this from someone who listens to Slayer daily!

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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Whatev . . . the most shocking thing about this entire post is that Batman reads the WSJ. There may be no God, but the devil is afoot . . . !!


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    With 2 esses's Rossco's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Great read, thanks DucDave!

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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by -jro- View Post
    I believe the argument is about validation, as addressed in his opening paragraph. Why do Christians feel the need to ask him why he doesn't believe in God? Why did his mother feel the need to protect him, to shut up his brother's inquiries?

    Define a "supportive and nurturing environment". That definition can change drastically from one viewpoint and perspective to another.
    is it not the mother's duty to protect her young in every way possible?


    in the context in which it was intended, a supportive and nurturing environment would attempt to gently sway the beliefs of the child back toward the realization that we are all (whether we know and care, or not) part of something much larger than ourselves, that is (for the moment at least) beyond our ability to fully comprehend.. like the nature of reality itself it is slippery and impossible to define fully

    whether you were to define that larger-than-ourselves thing/entity as a self-aware creator-type deity, or the brotherhood of mankind, or the collective spiritual energy of mankind existing in a world that is full of interacting energies.. those distinctions are less important perhaps, than the core thought, which to me is simply that anything we do to one, we do to all, including ourselves.

    which is to say, as we sow, so shall we reap..
    or do unto others as you would have done unto yourself

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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....


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    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
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    Shock you -jro-'s Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    is it not the mother's duty to protect her young in every way possible?


    in the context in which it was intended, a supportive and nurturing environment would attempt to gently sway the beliefs of the child back toward the realization that we are all (whether we know and care, or not) part of something much larger than ourselves, that is (for the moment at least) beyond our ability to fully comprehend.. like the nature of reality itself it is slippery and impossible to define fully

    whether you were to define that larger-than-ourselves thing/entity as a self-aware creator-type deity, or the brotherhood of mankind, or the collective spiritual energy of mankind existing in a world that is full of interacting energies.. those distinctions are less important perhaps, than the core thought, which to me is simply that anything we do to one, we do to all, including ourselves.

    which is to say, as we sow, so shall we reap..
    or do unto others as you would have done unto yourself

    are you suggesting a mother ought to protect her young from absolutely everything.....even "truth"?

    Your viewpoints on human energy and kinetics and how they bind us are interesting but they are nothing more than that. Opinion, not fact. Parents have and always will lie to their children about the larger truths of life to protect them....for better or worse.

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    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by sully749 View Post
    Whatev . . . the most shocking thing about this entire post is that Batman reads the WSJ. There may be no God, but the devil is afoot . . . !!

    OK...I should have attributed that article to Sully - She was kind enough to send me the link. And I appreciate it...so, my reputation for not reading non-fiction remains mostly unsullied...

    ...oh. man. that's got me thinking...

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    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    God answers all prayers Usually the answer is NO

    Is God on your side or are you on God's side ?

    God loves atheists

    Religion is the basis for civilization

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    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by -jro- View Post
    are you suggesting a mother ought to protect her young from absolutely everything.....even "truth"?

    Your viewpoints on human energy and kinetics and how they bind us are interesting but they are nothing more than that. Opinion, not fact. Parents have and always will lie to their children about the larger truths of life to protect them....for better or worse.
    Yes i do believe that children (up to a certain age anyway) should be protected from certain truths, or else you risk shattering their innocence at too young of an age..

    my viewpoints, while currently unprovable in any real quantifiable way, are no less factual than the fact that the sun will come up tomorrow.

    But that is fine, i've seen the evidence, and I know the truth.
    I don't need other people to agree with me to validate my beliefs or my self.

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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    my viewpoints, while currently unprovable in any real quantifiable way, are no less factual than the fact that the sun will come up tomorrow.
    The sun coming up tomorrow is not a fact just a highly probably event. Your spiritual beliefs (while not open to public scrutiny) probably don't have the same body of evidence. It's nice that you feel strongly about your observance but unless it's a simplistic universally accepted observation of sorts that you've put stock in it's still probably not all you've made it out to be for everyone. Pure speculation, but that's what you get when you make silly claims and don't give any information.

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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Originally Posted by Cerberus
    my viewpoints, while currently unprovable in any real quantifiable way, are no less factual than the fact that the sun will come up tomorrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    The sun coming up tomorrow is not a fact just a highly probably event. Your spiritual beliefs (while not open to public scrutiny) probably don't have the same body of evidence. It's nice that you feel strongly about your observance but unless it's a simplistic universally accepted observation of sorts that you've put stock in it's still probably not all you've made it out to be for everyone. Pure speculation, but that's what you get when you make silly claims and don't give any information.
    Thank you Alex....you saved me the trouble of responding. Man, the things people say and believe!!!

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    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Well to be fair, I really don't know what he believes and it may be a great insight. I just didn't like that injection of "fact" in a spiritual belief.

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    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Religion was created to explain the mysteries of the world. It predates civilization and was the original science. Somewhere along the line it became rigid and inflexible.

    It worked because it allowed early man to predict natural events around them. It gave people hope that they would not survive or perish on random chance. As long as they sucked up to a deity (or the local shaman or priest) they had a better chance to survive and there was a “grand design” that they were a part of.

    Today’s Christian Holidays are a result of a marketing plan in the middle ages. Christmas, Easter and All Saints Day were specifically created to overshadow the much older holidays of the Winter Solstice, the Vernal Equinox and Samhain (Halloween). The older “pagan” holidays were celebrated at night after the work was done. The Catholic holidays were created to be celebrated during the day and the Church pressured Feudal Lords into allowing his serfs to spend the day in worship instead of working. This made the new holidays much more attractive. People understood for the most part why and when the seasons changed. They no longer needed the “pagan” holidays to remind them that it was time to plant, harvest and that the sun would come back and that winter would end. Holidays became events on their own and included all sorts of new stories to learn. Considering that most people were illiterate, sitting in a church all day listening to someone tell stories was pretty attractive.

    I find some of the comments on this thread really offensive.
    An Atheist can be generous, kind, honest and giving. Believing in an imaginary friend does not solve anything and it does not give you mystical powers. It just gives you an excuse to be lazy and not search out answers. I am not saying that if you believe in God you are lazy it just makes being lazy easier.

    Some parents smother their children. Some parents do not protect them at all. Mother or Father, a parent’s duty is to guide their children to a point when they can survive on their own. In our society, just a few hundred years ago, if someone did not believe in God, there was a good chance that they would be stoned, burned at the stake or tortured until they accepted God. This is still going on in other societies and we see it as barbaric. It is also the parents duty to bring the child up to conform to the rules of society since this will aid in their survival.

    Would you physically torture someone to save their immortal soul?
    If you wouldn’t, are you saying that a person’s material existence is more important than their soul or are you less sure about your beliefs than you are willing to admit?

    I would suggest that the usefulness of religion in our society is waning and that this is a good thing.

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    Last edited by gadget; 12-23-10 at 09:21 AM.
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    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    That made me think about people in this country who try and make this country a theocracy while saying we should blow up and kill other countries because of their theocracy. Dunno why I thought of it, just interesting.

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