Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Page 3 of 49 FirstFirst 123456789101112132343 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 1207

A Case for Athiesim....

  1. #51
    Dic on
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    13,855

    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A400 Safari/6531.22.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat_man
    Here’s the deal; do you believe that “Rights” come from God or do they come from “Man”?

    If your rights come from a “Man”, they’re just as easily taken by another man.
    Your unalienable rights come from a higher power, whether you believe in God or not it is important to acknowledge your rights come from a higher power than man. This simple concept of “Rights” coming from a higher power along with a few others concepts (property rights) is responsible for what has made this country great.

    The “Progressives” trying to gain control of this country, to turn it into Europe with deodorant, want you to dismiss God.
    This is one of the lol-est yet.

    0 Not allowed!
    "Too bad ponies are assholes."

    OXX

  2. #52
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Age
    67
    Posts
    8,797

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    1st Amendment Text

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Please study this

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

    See evin da dangn govmint nos dere is religion

    Progressive elites believing they are the most important beings in the firmament dismiss the thought that anything can exist superior to them, sounds like a matter of faith.

    The soviet inspired, always seem to lose the 2nd phrase
    "or prohibit the free exercise thereof" also please note the complete absence of the oft bandied "separation of church and state"

    curious curiouser
    Odd...I take that to mean that even the government knows that forcing religion on the unwilling is outside the role of government. And as an athiest, I am in fact excercising the right our government protects, to free speech.

    So, please study that yourself...

    0 Not allowed!
    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.”
    Muhammad Ali.

  3. #53
    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Norf Sho
    Age
    38
    Posts
    10,978

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    also please note the complete absence of the oft bandied "separation of church and state"

    curious curiouser
    "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

    I'm going with this guys interpretation.

    I don't want religion in government just as much as you don't want government in your religion. Those brown people in the desert that you don't like do the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by richw View Post
    You guys got the votes

    I will be going downtown and registering as an independent
    Then I will be giving donations to both political parties like $101 each to Republicans and Democrats per year.

    When/if you appear in front of the treatment panel you will want to have your names on the donors list.

    You will also be happy to learn that my anti-left and most political rants will cease as I can not afford to be on an enemies list.

    Certainly any seniors in your family should do the same but I think smart for all..

    Devil's gonna win every once and a while.
    What happened to this Rich?

    0 Not allowed!
    -Alex
    I can resist everything but Pete's mom.

  4. #54
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Eastern Ct
    Posts
    3,211

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    This is theological not political

    During the times of the colonial government, in Europe, I believe that being a member in good standing of the state religion was a necessity for being in the government. The DEVINE right of Kings. That is the establishment of religion.

    0 Not allowed!

  5. #55
    Just Registered R1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Somewhere you dont know...
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,145

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    neither side seems to understand...

    You are not gonna convert Them with your profound personal insight as to why you dont believe, and They are not gonna convert You with their equally profound personal insight as to why They believe...

    what it boils down to is

    Belief - Yes/No
    God(s) - Yes/No
    Politics - Yes/No
    Intelligence - Yes/No

    I bet everyone who posted in this thread truly thinks there is some connection between the above choices and how they are chosen...

    but i bet they are only in your mind....

    I do know something you all don't know, but im taking my ball and i'm going home...

    0 Not allowed!

  6. #56
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Londonderry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,878

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Merry Christmas

    0 Not allowed!
    Sam


  7. #57
    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hartford region, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,263

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by R1 View Post
    neither side seems to understand...

    You are not gonna convert Them with your profound personal insight as to why you dont believe, and They are not gonna convert You with their equally profound personal insight as to why They believe...

    what it boils down to is

    Belief - Yes/No
    God(s) - Yes/No
    Politics - Yes/No
    Intelligence - Yes/No

    I bet everyone who posted in this thread truly thinks there is some connection between the above choices and how they are chosen...

    but i bet they are only in your mind....

    I do know something you all don't know, but im taking my ball and i'm going home...
    aww come on, can't you stay and play for a little while?

    0 Not allowed!
    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  8. #58
    "Plymouth's Fastest" BrianC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Plymouth, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    735

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    William T. Cummings, who served at Bataan, is famous for declaring "There are no atheists in foxholes."

    0 Not allowed!
    LRRS am #121

    "So this is what your race program has become... the back of a pickup truck huh?" -PK

  9. #59
    Dic on
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    13,855
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A400 Safari/6531.22.7)

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianC
    William T. Cummings, who served at Bataan, is famous for declaring "There are no atheists in foxholes."
    not too many priests in them, either.

    0 Not allowed!
    "Too bad ponies are assholes."

    OXX

  10. #60
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Danvers, MA
    Age
    39
    Posts
    36,666

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    not too many priests in them, either.
    Depends on what you mean by "fox" hole.


    HEYOOOOOO!

    0 Not allowed!
    -Pete LRRS/CCS #82 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays, Ironstone Ventures
    GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media

    The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650

  11. #61
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Londonderry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,878

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
    William T. Cummings, who served at Bataan, is famous for declaring "There are no atheists in foxholes."
    Don't you mean Reverend William T. Cummings?

    Isn't that like a Klu Klux Clan member saying there are no racists in the South?

    0 Not allowed!
    Sam


  12. #62
    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hartford region, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,263

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Depends on what you mean by "fox" hole.


    HEYOOOOOO!
    i gotta admit, thats funny right there, i don't care WHO you are..

    0 Not allowed!
    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  13. #63
    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hartford region, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,263

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
    William T. Cummings, who served at Bataan, is famous for declaring "There are no atheists in foxholes."
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget View Post
    Don't you mean Reverend William T. Cummings?

    Isn't that like a Klu Klux Clan member saying there are no racists in the South?
    actually, being that there are so few reverends in foxholes (per degsy's assertion)..

    .. put in proper perspective it would be more like a rabbi in 1945 germany saying there are no nazis in germany.. or something?!<)(>>>....

    ..forget it, i've confused even myself.

    0 Not allowed!
    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  14. #64
    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hartford region, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,263

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    Yes i do believe that children (up to a certain age anyway) should be protected from certain truths, or else you risk shattering their innocence at too young of an age..

    my viewpoints, while currently unprovable in any real quantifiable way, are no less factual than the fact that the sun will come up tomorrow.

    But that is fine, i've seen the evidence, and I know the truth.
    I don't need other people to agree with me to validate my beliefs or my self.
    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    The sun coming up tomorrow is not a fact just a highly probably event. Your spiritual beliefs (while not open to public scrutiny) probably don't have the same body of evidence. It's nice that you feel strongly about your observance but unless it's a simplistic universally accepted observation of sorts that you've put stock in it's still probably not all you've made it out to be for everyone. Pure speculation, but that's what you get when you make silly claims and don't give any information.
    i meant to revisit this;
    i made that post on the way out the door to work in the morning and obviously misspoke.. or at least did not clarify. Let me now explain.

    Call it Fruedian if you like, but i stand by the statement i made above.
    While it is true that the sun coming up tomorrow is not 'factual' in that it is a prediction, it IS however an extremely high likelyhood based upon evidence accumulated thoughout my entire life (and long before, arguably).
    My belief system is based on a mountain of life evidence just as large if not larger.

    btw, the only reason people reject the commonality concept of all man and all life for that matter, is that it allows one to continue to be petty, snide, self serving and back stabbing without feeling like you've done anything wrong.
    the righteous path is a very narrow and difficult path to follow.
    i spend most of my life just trying to get back to it, never mind staying on it.

    0 Not allowed!
    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  15. #65
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Age
    67
    Posts
    8,797

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    the righteous path is a very narrow and difficult path to follow.
    i spend most of my life just trying to get back to it, never mind staying on it.
    One of the real problems is that there are so many narrow, difficult, righteous paths which are all mutually exclusive. And if the idiocy of that doesn't resonate with you then please continue to think me petty, snide and self serving. Qualities that those on your path certainly arent...

    0 Not allowed!
    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.”
    Muhammad Ali.

  16. #66
    Professor of Philosphy Cerberus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hartford region, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,263

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    One of the real problems is that there are so many narrow, difficult, righteous paths which are all mutually exclusive.
    i disagree.
    for every person, in every moment, there is only one perfectly righteous path, and hundreds of variants, most being perfectly acceptable choices and not mutually exclusive in their rightness of each other. i also believe that is possibly beyond our ability to achieve perfection, but the honest and earnest pursuit thereof is what matters

    i seek the one.

    as for what i think of you, i don't know you.
    The only thing i know of you is being a self proclaimed atheist preacher..
    and given atheists' tendency to ridicule the beliefs of the faithful, you don't strike me as someone who is likely to be terribly tolerant or loving of people of faith or those who believe in something that you do not..
    but again, this is based on vague impressions

    i don't care what people believe as long as the root of it all is love or something positive and good.
    if the root of it all is something negative, then i can't support it, but still i won't judge anyone for that. its not my place to do so.

    0 Not allowed!
    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  17. #67
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Age
    67
    Posts
    8,797

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    you wear the high road well...


    I think your choice of language has me confused. When you say 'righteous' it creates images of Christian Evangelists in my mind. And that path is rigid and exclusionary. Further, this paragraph seems to be self contradictory:

    for every person, in every moment, there is only one perfectly righteous path, and hundreds of variants, most being perfectly acceptable choices and not mutually exclusive in their rightness of each other. i also believe that is possibly beyond our ability to achieve perfection, but the honest and earnest pursuit thereof is what matters
    Aside from the contradictions, the concept of personel perfection is baffling to me...

    Your explanantion sounds sort of 'Buddhist' to me. Perhaps you are suggesting a personal spiritual quest that is yours and yours alone? If that's what you mean I subscribe to that completely.


    I am on a personal spiritual quest that is mine alone. Mine includes the belief that there is no God and that we need to be positive and good. It includes the belief that man will be best served when we all abandon the institutions of religion and the need to believe in a being that created all that is. It includes the belief that our spirits evolve socially and that, in time, we may find a way to love cooperatively without the nonsense of the concepts of multiple, conflicting, supreme beings.

    So, I may confused, but I don't think I ridicule your belief.

    Here's something to think about however...

    YouTube - Organised Religion Is A Clown Costume.

    (Note - I don't laugh really. It's mostly too frightening to find funny....)

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by DucDave; 12-29-10 at 08:14 AM.
    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.”
    Muhammad Ali.

  18. #68
    "Plymouth's Fastest" BrianC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Plymouth, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    735

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    I think it is important to distinguish between religion and God. If this thread is about not believing in religions, then it is a different argument than whether God exists or not. For me, if someone was trying to convince me that God is Buddha, Allah, or Jesus, well I probably wouldn't believe that. I believe that the best approach to religion is to recognize and seek out the multiple universal truths that are common to all religions. I try and find what they all have in common, and that can help point a person in the right direction.

    0 Not allowed!
    LRRS am #121

    "So this is what your race program has become... the back of a pickup truck huh?" -PK

  19. #69
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Age
    67
    Posts
    8,797

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    This thread is about belief in God. Religion is simply the institutionalization of that belief by powerful and dangerous organizations. And I acknowledge the good done by these same institutions. In fact, if you could get the whole world to agree to one of these Religions it might work out. And that, you see, is the rub. Every major religion is on a quest to do just that...no matter how many people have to die. And just so we all understand, Muslims represent the largest and fastest growing religion on earth. Best we all start learning where Mecca lies....

    Get rid of God, you get rid of Religion.

    (Actually, I'm surprised no one has tried to make the case that Athiesm is a Religion....)

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by DucDave; 12-29-10 at 08:38 AM.
    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.”
    Muhammad Ali.

  20. #70
    "Plymouth's Fastest" BrianC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Plymouth, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    735

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Well the best case for God that I can come up with is all based on personal experience and my interpretation of other people's experience. I think it is designed that way so it is always up to the individual. God will reach a person in different ways. Prison has been mentioned, and many a person has found God in prison. It is God's way of saying, "slow down, take some time to get spiritually fit, I need you for something". Then, a situation that seemed so horrible, actually becomes the best thing that could have happened.

    Let's look at that for an example of a how God is beneficial. You have 2 people in prison. One is an atheist, unwilling to explore even the slightest chance that God exists. The other is a person who, prior to the imprisonment may not have been religious, just kind of went thru life his own way and never really thought about God, but since being imprisoned, takes the time to consider God's role in the situation.

    The Atheist would probably have a lot of resentment. He may be angry at his upbringing, his situation that led to the crime, society, or only himself. His time spent in prison would consist of emotional turmoil, pain, anger, and confusion. Or maybe he would just accept the situation and ride out the time in complete boredom, trying just to get through the ordeal. Either way, it would be a hellish experience.

    The person open to God could at least embark on a mission to learn as much as possible about spirituality. He may join a religious group, learn to pray, have a life-changing spiritual experience, and come to understand that his situation was God's will for him. He could make sense out of the situation, accept it, trust in God, and have serenity knowing that God is watching over him and has a plan for him. Even if the entire experience only gained him a new faith in God, it is a huge gain!

    This difference between atheist and believer can be used in all kinds of situations, from drug addiction to serious illness, to extreme poverty. Basically any situation that causes tremendous pain and suffering is an opportunity for a person to find God. I believe it is God's way of reaching out to them. The reason God does this is because he needs these people. He needs them to fullfill his plan for them which may include helping others in the same situations. This is very common in AA. You will not find a truly recovered alchoholic/drug addict in AA, who does not believe in God ("higher-power"), and who is not willing to help another person suffering from addiction. As far as I know, a person cannot recover form addiction without the help of a God or higher power. If anyone says that they have, they weren't really addicted to begin with. When a person is going to die from their addiction, a spiritual solution is the only way. Even most MD's agree with that, after years of trying to "treat" addicts.

    0 Not allowed!
    LRRS am #121

    "So this is what your race program has become... the back of a pickup truck huh?" -PK

  21. #71
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Londonderry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,878

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....



    Really?!!??!

    0 Not allowed!
    Sam


  22. #72
    Lifer NobodySpecific's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Burlington, VT
    Age
    34
    Posts
    2,740

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
    This difference between atheist and believer can be used in all kinds of situations, from drug addiction to serious illness, to extreme poverty. Basically any situation that causes tremendous pain and suffering is an opportunity for a person to find God. I believe it is God's way of reaching out to them. The reason God does this is because he needs these people. He needs them to fullfill his plan for them which may include helping others in the same situations. This is very common in AA. You will not find a truly recovered alchoholic/drug addict in AA, who does not believe in God ("higher-power"), and who is not willing to help another person suffering from addiction. As far as I know, a person cannot recover form addiction without the help of a God or higher power. If anyone says that they have, they weren't really addicted to begin with. When a person is going to die from their addiction, a spiritual solution is the only way. Even most MD's agree with that, after years of trying to "treat" addicts.
    And yet I believe that the entire reason that man created god is to try to justify why there is pain and suffering in the world, and as a coping mechanism. I think it served a very important purpose, and without organized religion our society would have come together very differently (if at all). What bothers me, however, is the implication that I can't live a good life without "accepting jesus" (my father converted to a Mormon a few years ago, I never hear the end of it). I don't need a higher power to convince me to do the right thing. I also don't need the fear of hell or some horrible punishment in the supposed afterlife to keep me from doing bad things. I think that as a modern society, we need to each do our own thing to contribute and make the world a better place for those that live in it. I'm not going around selfishly doing good things just to get a better spot in heaven, but rather because it makes the people around me happy. I am fully capable of being a good person just for the sake of being good.

    That being said, there is still a certain benefit to raising kids in a somewhat religious environment, as long as it isn't taken too far. Kids always need a reason why, and just saying be good for the sake of being good isn't always going to cut it.

    My father asking me to say grace at the christmas dinner, when he knows I'm not religious at all, really kind of bothered me though. I don't ever say anything bad to him about his choice in what to believe, but to put me on the spot like that and to make me feel uncomfortable at a family dinner (with a family that I'm only sort of a part of, but that's another story) just completely goes against what Christmas means to me (it's a time to get together with friends and family, have fun, and remember the year gone by, I don't give a damn about presents or the religious side of it). Especially when they always talk about honesty and all that. He wants me to lie to the kids and to myself to say some prayer that I don't believe in? Seems a touch hypocritical.

    0 Not allowed!
    '06 Triumph Sprint ST ABS
    '90 Yamaha XT350

  23. #73
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Age
    67
    Posts
    8,797

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    This is very common in AA. You will not find a truly recovered alchoholic/drug addict in AA, who does not believe in God ("higher-power"), and who is not willing to help another person suffering from addiction. As far as I know, a person cannot recover form addiction without the help of a God or higher power. If anyone says that they have, they weren't really addicted to begin with. When a person is going to die from their addiction, a spiritual solution is the only way. Even most MD's agree with that, after years of trying to "treat" addicts
    This is the most dangerous of the dangerous. I know someone VERY well who has been sober for 18 years. And that person has AA to thank for that. He is well on the road to be fully recovered and those who know him would agree his sobriety is pretty damn good! He still attend meetings 3 times a week and has helped countless others. All that AA says about that is that you need to be open to the possibility.

    I know for certain more people leave AA meetings because of the religious zealots than because they don't believe in God.

    Please, please, please, don't burden the suffering addict or alcoholic with the notion that unless they believe in God they can't get sober. And, as you know, GOD can be a 'Group of Drunks', 'Good Orderly Direction', etc....

    Like the myth about athiests in the foxhole, there are plenty of athiests in AA and recovery.

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by DucDave; 12-29-10 at 12:48 PM.
    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.”
    Muhammad Ali.

  24. #74
    special sauce RoyalewitCheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Hudson
    Age
    38
    Posts
    264

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by SV650N View Post

    My father asking me to say grace at the christmas dinner, when he knows I'm not religious at all, really kind of bothered me though. I don't ever say anything bad to him about his choice in what to believe, but to put me on the spot like that and to make me feel uncomfortable at a family dinner (with a family that I'm only sort of a part of, but that's another story) just completely goes against what Christmas means to me (it's a time to get together with friends and family, have fun, and remember the year gone by, I don't give a damn about presents or the religious side of it). Especially when they always talk about honesty and all that. He wants me to lie to the kids and to myself to say some prayer that I don't believe in? Seems a touch hypocritical.

    I hear you on that 100%. I feel that the whole Sunday school BS was to drive the morals home hard with me as a young and impressionable youth. However, I saw more of my classmates from Sunday school engaging in pre-marital sex, drug and alcohol abuse, as well as driving recklessly in the car that drove them to Sunday school years later. The only real answer I can come up with is that my parents wanted me to have the same kind righteous religious upbringing that they did. They were both crushed when I put up Maiden/Priest/Megadeth posters in my room as a teen, and even put a cross in my room which I conveniently twisted around for the sake of Halford.

    I believe in people making the right choices and choosing to act so in life depicts who they are to their peers, family, and future generations. I don't cry to baby jesus when I get screwed over, or blame a certain faith or creed, it usually boils down to someone with a lack of character and intelligence. Religious backgrounds nowadays don't carry much worth for me, I've studied them all in school, and they're all the same in terms of providing the most dumbed down version of basic education: Be good OR ELSE, yadda yadda yadda. Sucks that the extremists nowadays for ANY RELIGION can't seem to comprehend simple messages, and blow them up to be direct orders from a higher power to execute anyone else that disagrees with their moral stand point.

    What would I know though.

    0 Not allowed!

  25. #75
    "Plymouth's Fastest" BrianC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Plymouth, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    735

    Re: A Case for Athiesim....

    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    This is the most dangerous of the dangerous. I know someone VERY well who has been sober for 18 years. And that person has AA to thank for that. He is well on the road to be fully recovered and those who know him would agree his sobriety is pretty damn good! He still attend meetings 3 times a week and has helped countless others. All that AA says about that is that you need to be open to the possibility.

    I know for certain more people leave AA meetings because of the religious zealots than because they don't believe in God.

    Please, please, please, don't burden the suffering addict or alcoholic with the notion that unless they believe in God they can't get sober. And, as you know, GOD can be a 'Group of Drunks', 'Good Orderly Direction', etc....

    Like the myth about athiests in the foxhole, there are plenty of athiests in AA and recovery.
    You're right, there are a lot of atheists or agnostics who come to AA. There's a whole chapter in the Big Book dedicated to them. It basically says that w/out some higher power, recovery will not happen. There is an old division in AA over the role of God, but the people who do the program and the 12 steps know that without God they couldn't have recovered. The others develop their own style complete with sayings and concepts like the "5 basics", which have nothing to do with the 12 steps or the program of AA. Those misbeliefs are the dangerousness in AA. That could kill a person because you tell them they don't need God, and to just "Don't Drink"! Some of the silliest things come out of those people and most everyone knows they don't have true sobriety. They should never try to sponsor a newcomer because their false beliefs and poor instructions makes sure that a newcomer will leave AA thinking it doesn't work. The only thing that works is the steps, which is based on God. Sorry for using AA as an example, that is an entire "controversial topic" discussion in itself. I'd rather stay away from that one! Bottom line is that I would help anyone whether they believed in God, didn't believe in anything, or believed in Satan. It would just take more time with the latter two!

    0 Not allowed!
    LRRS am #121

    "So this is what your race program has become... the back of a pickup truck huh?" -PK

Similar Threads

  1. Cracked case
    By sully749 in forum General Bike Related
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-27-10, 01:21 PM
  2. PC case fan
    By Slyder in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-30-09, 07:04 PM
  3. Just in case you haven't watched it...
    By OreoGaborio in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-30-08, 07:01 AM
  4. In case of an accident....
    By DucDave in forum Rides & Events
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-27-07, 12:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •