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Concerned about U.S. future?

  1. #1
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Concerned about U.S. future?


    Here’s how the American political system works now. Most Congressional districts have been gerrymandered to be “safe” for one party or the other. This puts power into the hands of partisan primary voters, who tend to be more extreme than the rest of us. Money comes from partisan Donors, lobbyists and corporations.

    The result is a broadly disenfranchised middle and a Congress unwilling to compromise on anything that might favor the opposing party in any way.

    Contrast today with the way things were: the Civil Rights legislation of 1964 was voted for by 80% of Republicans and 63% of Democrats.

    The budget deficit, defense spending, infrastructure, education, foreign intervention, foreign interference, and real health care reform all get kicked down the road. You can learn more from:

    https://freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry

    We all know our political system is “broken” — but what if that’s not true? Some say the Republicans and Democrats constitute a wildly successful industry that has colluded to kill off competition, stifle reform, and drive the country apart. So what are you going to do about it?
    If you are dissatisfied with our political system and wondering how to get out of this mess, take a look at Unite America:

    https://www.uniteamerica.org

    Unite America is a movement of Democrats, Republicans, and independents working to bridge the growing partisan divide and foster a more representative and functional government.

    We’re focused on scaling and accelerating the movement to put voters first, and ensure that the right leaders have the right incentives to solve our country’s greatest problems.

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    Last edited by Garandman; 09-10-20 at 07:50 AM.
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    That’s really only one problem. Not only is being elected to Congress a virtual appointment for life, but the law-writing process has become so complicated that many times special interests wind up writing the very legislation they are to be regulated by. Officials are more concerned with how their voting record will be viewed by the monied interests than by their constituents. They are also have such incredible benefits the legal exemptions that they no longer identify with voters. The entire process is controlled by money. Etc Etc Etc.

    That being said, the American people have culpability here as well. They don't vote, they don't educate themselves on the issues but instead are moved by their own prejudices and attack ads.

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    Last edited by Bonk!; 09-10-20 at 08:17 AM.

  3. #3
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    While correct that “both sides” have some aspect of gerrymandering, it’s yet another example of how “both sides” rhetoric doesn’t quite line up with reality.

    “The analysis found four times as many states with Republican-skewed state House or Assembly districts than Democratic ones. Among the two dozen most populated states that determine the vast majority of Congress, there were nearly three times as many with Republican-tilted U.S. House districts.”


    https://www.businessinsider.com/part...mocrats-2017-6


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    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    While correct that “both sides” have some aspect of gerrymandering, it’s yet another example of how “both sides” rhetoric doesn’t quite line up with reality.

    “The analysis found four times as many states with Republican-skewed state House or Assembly districts than Democratic ones. Among the two dozen most populated states that determine the vast majority of Congress, there were nearly three times as many with Republican-tilted U.S. House districts.”


    https://www.businessinsider.com/part...mocrats-2017-6
    This demonstrates how pervasive the problem is: partisans can’t break out of the “Us versus them,” mindset.

    First, that pertains to state elections, when it’s a national problem. The number quoted in their book is 90% of Representative seats and 72% of Senate seats are considered “safe” for one party or the other.

    Second scoring which party is more successful at rigging the game doesn’t help get us out of this mess.

    Third, Massachusetts is demonstrably gerrymandered in favor of Democrats. Massachusetts has broad swaths of towns that routinely vote for the Republican presidential candidate, yet no Republican representatives. Take a look at my district (7th) and explain what logic was used. Or the 5th district.

    Did you look at what they propose to get past this? Would you like to have meaningful primaries and more competition?

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    Last edited by Garandman; 09-10-20 at 09:07 AM.
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    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Concerned about U.S. future?

    If you read the article it conceded it happens when both parties are in power, but also that Democratic “gerrymandering” is often not intentional (e.g., it’s representative of urban influx), and while Maryland is cited as an example of actual gerrymandering, the politically driven manipulation is marketably worse when carried out by Republicans. Translation: they aren’t even hiding it.

    “A separate statistical analysis conducted for AP by the Princeton University Gerrymandering Project found that the extreme Republican advantages in some states were no fluke. The Republican edge in Michigan’s state House districts had only a 1-in-16,000 probability of occurring by chance; in Wisconsin’s Assembly districts, there was a mere 1-in-60,000 likelihood of it happening randomly, the analysis found.”


    “There are significantly more pro-Republican maps at the moment than there are pro-Democratic maps,” Stephanopoulos said. “To me, the most important driver of that fact is that Republicans controlled redistricting in a whole lot more states than Democrats” after the last census.”

    The Census plays a huge role. And we already know the current effort is being kneecapped under the guise of COVID and will assuredly contain gross errors. I wonder who is going to benefit? Concerned about U.S. future?

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...o-fail-202575/


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    Last edited by scottieducati; 09-10-20 at 10:35 AM.

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    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    So you are perfectly happy with the American political system and don’t think it needs change?

    The system that resulted in the choice of Joe Biden or Donald Trump for President?

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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Now here's a thread worth having. I don't have much to add except that I like the idea.

    I'm in favor of getting rid of the electoral college. It skews presidential elections by too much now, which defeats the purpose.
    I'm also in favor of strict term limits for all politicians. I believe they should be paid very handsomely for their tenure, but the benefits stop when their tenure is over.
    I believe in mandatory voting for all politicians in all votes.
    I believe that bills should not have attachments
    I believe it should be illegal for any business to donate to a political cause.
    I believe in a maximum $500 per annum personal donation from a private entity or citizen to any political cause.
    I believe permanent residents should be allowed to vote in local elections.
    I believe that you should should have to show an ID to vote and absentee ballots should be picked up in person by a registrar's office except for overseas citizens (military etc) who should deliver them to a US embassy or FPO point.

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    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    *skips article but reads thread*

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    So you are perfectly happy with the American political system and don’t think it needs change?
    *re-reads Scotty's posts*


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    Lifer backinthesaddle's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    Now here's a thread worth having. I don't have much to add except that I like the idea.

    I'm in favor of getting rid of the electoral college. It skews presidential elections by too much now, which defeats the purpose.
    I'm also in favor of strict term limits for all politicians. I believe they should be paid very handsomely for their tenure, but the benefits stop when their tenure is over.
    I believe in mandatory voting for all politicians in all votes.
    I believe that bills should not have attachments
    I believe it should be illegal for any business to donate to a political cause.
    I believe in a maximum $500 per annum personal donation from a private entity or citizen to any political cause.
    I believe permanent residents should be allowed to vote in local elections.
    I believe that you should should have to show an ID to vote and absentee ballots should be picked up in person by a registrar's office except for overseas citizens (military etc) who should deliver them to a US embassy or FPO point.
    I will say I agree 100% with this.

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    you do realize, doing away with the electoral college, would require and amendment that would need to be ratified by 75% of the states... do you really think less populated states are going to give up their electoral power.... talk about reforms that are realistic, and don't waste our time

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    So you are perfectly happy with the American political system and don’t think it needs change?

    The system that resulted in the choice of Joe Biden or Donald Trump for President?
    that's the choice that is in your closed mind, read further on the ballot, you will also see Jorgensen

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    you do realize, doing away with the electoral college, would require and amendment that would need to be ratified by 75% of the states... do you really think less populated states are going to give up their electoral power.... talk about reforms that are realistic, and don't waste our time
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

    Unfortunately some of them are already on board. Going popular vote means the top 3 or 4 cities in the US decide the president, the rest of us are statistical noise in the background.

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    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    you do realize, doing away with the electoral college, would require and amendment that would need to be ratified by 75% of the states... do you really think less populated states are going to give up their electoral power.... talk about reforms that are realistic, and don't waste our time
    Nah I'm just going to waste my time on a candidate with zero chance of winning. Sound familiar pot or are you the kettle?

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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    you do realize, doing away with the electoral college, would require and amendment that would need to be ratified by 75% of the states... do you really think less populated states are going to give up their electoral power.... talk about reforms that are realistic, and don't waste our time
    Several things I said I'm in favor of are unrealistic. I'm just saying what I'm in favor of. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Doing away with the electoral college doesn't neccessarily mean a simle 1 man- 1 vote system, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

    Unfortunately some of them are already on board. Going popular vote means the top 3 or 4 cities in the US decide the president, the rest of us are statistical noise in the background.
    Us city slickers are fed up of 1 cow having the voting power of 3000 people.

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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    you do realize, doing away with the electoral college, would require and amendment that would need to be ratified by 75% of the states... do you really think less populated states are going to give up their electoral power.... talk about reforms that are realistic, and don't waste our time
    Not trying to skew the thread, but coming from someone who thinks that 2A is a hair's breath from being rescinded, that's a bit rich.

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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

    Unfortunately some of them are already on board. Going popular vote means the top 3 or 4 cities in the US decide the president, the rest of us are statistical noise in the background.
    Cities don't vote, people do. Also the top 4 cities in the us only add up to 20 million people, or 6% of the US population. Even if you include their metro areas they only represent 15% of the US population. But tell me again why those 50 million people shouldn't have their votes count like everyone else's?

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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rstate_Compact

    Unfortunately some of them are already on board. Going popular vote means the top 3 or 4 cities in the US decide the president, the rest of us are statistical noise in the background.
    why should someone in Wyoming get 40x the vote of me or you or anyone else?

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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    Not trying to skew the thread, but coming from someone who thinks that 2A is a hair's breath from being rescinded, that's a bit rich.
    I have never stated a fear of 2A being rescinded, never happen. My fear is a change in SCOTUS interpretation, that will further negatively affect price and availability of ammo.

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    why should someone in Wyoming get 40x the vote of me or you or anyone else?
    cause they were smart enough to reside in Wyoming, NH has higher than average vote power too

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    Lifer joeswamp's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    why should someone in Wyoming get 40x the vote of me or you or anyone else?
    Has anyone ever made a graph of median education level vs presidential voting power in the USA? Would be interesting to see.

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    Administrator Frankenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    Now here's a thread worth having. I don't have much to add except that I like the idea.

    I'm in favor of getting rid of the electoral college. It skews presidential elections by too much now, which defeats the purpose.
    I'm also in favor of strict term limits for all politicians. I believe they should be paid very handsomely for their tenure, but the benefits stop when their tenure is over.
    I believe in mandatory voting for all politicians in all votes.
    I believe that bills should not have attachments
    I believe it should be illegal for any business to donate to a political cause.
    I believe in a maximum $500 per annum personal donation from a private entity or citizen to any political cause.
    I believe permanent residents should be allowed to vote in local elections.
    I believe that you should should have to show an ID to vote and absentee ballots should be picked up in person by a registrar's office except for overseas citizens (military etc) who should deliver them to a US embassy or FPO point.
    I agree with this entire list. It's common sense stuff! Sneaking Pentagon funding into a Covid relief bill is fucking bullshit!

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    Administrator Frankenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    To the topic at hand - I think the US is fucked. We're on track to become some weird hybrid of Russia and North Korea. The collective we in this country is SO FUCKING STUPID I can't even believe it.

    That's not true, I can believe it. Fuck all of you.

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  23. #23
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I have never stated a fear of 2A being rescinded, never happen. My fear is a change in SCOTUS interpretation, that will further negatively affect price and availability of ammo.
    And mag capacity, love that one. Not that it will affect me.

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  24. #24
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honclfibr View Post
    Cities don't vote, people do. Also the top 4 cities in the us only add up to 20 million people, or 6% of the US population. Even if you include their metro areas they only represent 15% of the US population. But tell me again why those 50 million people shouldn't have their votes count like everyone else's?
    because they live in a separate autonomous state. the US is a union of states, people seem to forget the 10th amendment, House of Reps is our only representation that is proportionate. With all other respects, each STATE is equal representation, not every person,

    I wonder what would happen, if a state or states, seceded today

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    RandyO
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    Re: Concerned about U.S. future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
    To the topic at hand - I think the US is fucked. We're on track to become some weird hybrid of Russia and North Korea. The collective we in this country is SO FUCKING STUPID I can't even believe it.

    That's not true, I can believe it. Fuck all of you.
    As a Russian, believe me you're closer to being right than you think. Having plenty of deja vu moments in recent years.

    Also the people who don't think that Russia isn't fucking with USA and trying to divide by posing as USA political extremists (for both parties) on social media are naive, don't know history and realllly don't understand Russian culture.

    One false news meme will reach tens to hundreds of thousands of people and circulate indefinitely online. You can't get a better bang for the buck.

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