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Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

  1. #226
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond


    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    And see all those Trump lawn signs from people who are on welfare? No thanks.
    Hold up a tick, doesn't the D party give you the free stuff? I'm posting this from an Obama phone.

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  2. #227
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    I talked about a snapshot in time of current variables. It appears to me that you're talking about perceived outcomes. 1's and 0's versus abc's.
    Your original poster talks about predictions if trump wins, and then tries to demonstrate that the current affairs before he has even taken office have disproved it.

    It's like if someone claims a heroin addict who has professed their love for the drug probably won't become sober, then that's fear mongering because they pledged to enter rehab yesterday. For that specific moment, if you intentionally (and incorrectly) restrict the debate to only that moment, then you can claim the previous fear was unjust. The reality is their pledge to enter rehab is juxtaposed against the many who have tried and failed, and their personal history. The fear of failure is and was reasonable.

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  3. #228
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Your original poster talks about predictions if trump wins, and then tries to demonstrate that the current affairs before he has even taken office have disproved it.

    It's like if someone claims a heroin addict who has professed their love for the drug probably won't become sober, then that's fear mongering because they pledged to enter rehab yesterday. For that specific moment, if you intentionally (and incorrectly) restrict the debate to only that moment, then you can claim the previous fear was unjust. The reality is their pledge to enter rehab is juxtaposed against the many who have tried and failed, and their personal history. The fear of failure is and was reasonable.
    I'm too dumb to continue this discussion. I hope you enjoyed the food for thought.

    Thank you for teaching me the DOW is not a good way to measure market health.

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  4. #229
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Thank you for teaching me the DOW is not a good way to measure market health.
    I didn't say that. You should re-read what I said. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were a few other things you took away drastically different interpretations of.

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  5. #230
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Hold up a tick, doesn't the D party give you the free stuff? I'm posting this from an Obama phone.
    They might, but the ones who take are a vast majority in the R states/towns.


    Basically, they are fighting to take their own benefits away. It's more sad than funny. They think there is some boogeyman town that is all drug using illegals who get free everything. The sad truth is that towns like Athol are filled to the brim with uneducated and unemployed white people who hold no prospects for jobs that could be a career. The heroin/fentenol epidemic is hitting them hard, with overdoses and resulting deaths becoming more frequent. Then comes along some orange haired clown who promises their high paying unskilled jobs will come back (they won't) because factories (like Starrett) will move their operations back to the US if they are told to (no, they will just go bankrupt or leave completely, esp since most Starrett tools are made overseas now). Nevermind modernization of manufacturing is the real cause of this (robots replace unskilled labor and require educated skilled workers, but god forbid we help people pay for college to get those jobs because SOCIALISM!), and the increase in the average US workers standard of living compared to the rest of the world.


    3 out of the 4 people who I know personally who have taken Welfare were/are all die hard far right evangelicals. They think somehow they deserve the benefits, but the next person doesn't because they live in a big city, wear baggy pants/rap music, or have an accent from another country.

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  6. #231
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    I'm too dumb to continue this discussion. I hope you enjoyed the food for thought.

    Thank you for teaching me the DOW is not a good way to measure market health.
    Market health is not a strong indicator of economic health. Economies don't just go "pop" within minutes, the DOW does. It's speculative wealth, not tangible wealth and productivity.

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  7. #232
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    I didn't say that. You should re-read what I said. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were a few other things you took away drastically different interpretations of.
    example A - "The fact that the dow jumped is meh." - aldend123

    Damn, I just noticed you rock the 123. You're probably pretty cool.

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  8. #233
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    They might, but the ones who take are a vast majority in the R states/towns.


    Basically, they are fighting to take their own benefits away. It's more sad than funny. They think there is some boogeyman town that is all drug using illegals who get free everything. The sad truth is that towns like Athol are filled to the brim with uneducated and unemployed white people who hold no prospects for jobs that could be a career. The heroin/fentenol epidemic is hitting them hard, with overdoses and resulting deaths becoming more frequent. Then comes along some orange haired clown who promises their high paying unskilled jobs will come back (they won't) because factories (like Starrett) will move their operations back to the US if they are told to (no, they will just go bankrupt or leave completely, esp since most Starrett tools are made overseas now). Nevermind modernization of manufacturing is the real cause of this (robots replace unskilled labor and require educated skilled workers, but god forbid we help people pay for college to get those jobs because SOCIALISM!), and the increase in the average US workers standard of living compared to the rest of the world.


    3 out of the 4 people who I know personally who have taken Welfare were/are all die hard far right evangelicals. They think somehow they deserve the benefits, but the next person doesn't because they live in a big city, wear baggy pants/rap music, or have an accent from another country.
    Athol has a lot of good people in it, I think the current set of glasses you're wearing have some shit smeared on the lens.

    Your sample size of 3 out of 4 means approximately fuck all.

    ps - Starrett Tools is one of the largest employers in town. I think your rant on them goes back to those glasses you're wearing today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Market health is not a strong indicator of economic health. Economies don't just go "pop" within minutes, the DOW does. It's speculative wealth, not tangible wealth and productivity.
    Enlighten me, what's a better marker for overall market health? One single marker, what's better?

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    Central Mass Powersports #123

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  9. #234
    Member bassomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    I'm too dumb to continue this discussion. .......
    .


    And it's being proven, one post at a time.

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  10. #235
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    example A - "The fact that the dow jumped is meh."
    You snipped off the important second half "The fact that the dow jumped is meh. You could also say the dow plummeted right before that too." And then I said: "Speaking specifically about the dow, it might signal optimism and hope. But the market was also extremely high just before the crash in 1929. You should not focus on the dow's current state so strongly. The reality is much more complicated"

    I didn't say it wasn't a good way to measure market health, I said (implied?) you can't use such an isolated window of time and a single collection of stocks as a way to assess market health. Especially as a way to dismiss fears of a president-elect who hasn't even taken over the job yet.

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  11. #236
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    You snipped off the important second half "The fact that the dow jumped is meh. You could also say the dow plummeted right before that too." And then I said: "Speaking specifically about the dow, it might signal optimism and hope. But the market was also extremely high just before the crash in 1929. You should not focus on the dow's current state so strongly. The reality is much more complicated"

    I didn't say it wasn't a good way to measure market health, I said (implied?) you can't use such an isolated window of time and a single collection of stocks as a way to assess market health. Especially as a way to dismiss fears of a president-elect who hasn't even taken over the job yet.
    It all means something, we don't need to agree on what that something is.

    Thank you for the reasonable back and forth.

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    Last edited by cdovego; 11-15-16 at 02:55 PM. Reason: added thank you
    Central Mass Powersports #123

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  12. #237
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Athol has a lot of good people in it, I think the current set of glasses you're wearing have some shit smeared on the lens.

    Your sample size of 3 out of 4 means approximately fuck all.

    ps - Starrett Tools is one of the largest employers in town. I think your rant on them goes back to those glasses you're wearing today.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Enlighten me, what's a better marker for overall market health? One single marker, what's better?



    You are correct. Starrett is one of the largest employers in town. And quite a success story of a town, now isn't it? Thanks for making my point.



    Overall market health, or overall economic health? You seem to not understand the difference, nor do you understand why one is a volatile figure of perceived valuation and another is tangible.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 11-15-16 at 02:55 PM.
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  13. #238
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post

    Your sample size of 3 out of 4 means approximately fuck all.
    Why don't you quote your first post, you know, that list, again, then repeat that sentence you wrote above.

    Man, you are like a Rubics cube with 4 blocks. So easy.

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  14. #239
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    You are correct. Starrett is one of the largest employers in town. And quite a success story of a town, now isn't it? Thanks for making my point.



    Overall market health, or overall economic health? You seem to not understand the difference, nor do you understand why one is a volatile figure of perceived valuation and another is tangible.
    How can they be the largest employer in town while they're shipping all their jobs overseas? I think you just want to argue.

    Market health, semantics man.

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  15. #240
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Why don't you quote your first post, you know, that list, again, then repeat that sentence you wrote above.

    Man, you are like a Rubics cube with 4 blocks. So easy.
    Your battleground is the internet and I'm the easy one. You take it all just a little too seriously.

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  16. #241
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Enlighten me, what's a better marker for overall market health? One single marker, what's better?
    The S&P500 is a far better indicator than the DOW is.

    But you're arguing just to argue, not to actually have an intelligent debate.

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  17. #242
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    I don't know about you guys, but I tend not to judge the success or failure of a presidency two months before the President is even inaugurated.

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  18. #243
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikenapalm View Post
    The S&P500 is a far better indicator than the DOW is.

    But you're arguing just to argue, not to actually have an intelligent debate.
    I'm all ears - why is it better?

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  19. #244
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    I want to correct falsehoods. You just want to argue. That's the difference.

    "How can they be the largest employer in town while they're shipping all their jobs overseas?"


    Who said they are shipping ALL their jobs overseas? This isn't a Trump rally, no need for declarations that the sky is falling. They moved a significant portion of their manufacturing overseas. They have plants in Scotland, Brazil and China. They only employ about 1/3 of their employees in Athol, which a lot of are administrative since it is the headquarters.


    You brought up Athol because it's a shit hole town. If all 2k employees of Starrett lived and worked there, it might of looked more like it did in it's peak. Those jobs aren't coming back.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 11-15-16 at 03:17 PM.
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  20. #245
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Your battleground is the internet and I'm the easy one. You take it all just a little too seriously.
    Yes, I do take the future of our country seriously. It's clear that false information is a major detriment to our political system as of late.

    Sorry I can't be all "YOLO - LULZ TRUMP YO" about this.

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  21. #246
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    They moved a significant portion of their manufacturing overseas. (false)They have plants in Scotland, Brazil and China. They only employ about 1/3 of their employees in Athol, which a lot of are administrative since it is the headquarters. (false)


    You brought up Athol because it's a shit hole town (false). If all 2k employees of Starrett lived and worked there, it might of looked more like it did in it's peak. Those jobs aren't coming back.(false)
    Starrett has been a worldwide manufacturing plant for over 50 years. My grandmother retired from there (nurse) and I personally sat at the crosswalk for many years while shift change took place (hint, they're not admin people covered in grease). They are hiring right now, machinists. My friends work there as...you guessed it, machinists.

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  22. #247
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Typically when someone asks a question, they're soliciting input to form an opinion...unless of course they're trolling.

    I asked a genuine question with no expectation of genuine answers.
    Yet you complain when you get them.

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  23. #248
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Yes, I do take the future of our country seriously. It's clear that false information is a major detriment to our political system as of late.

    Sorry I can't be all "YOLO - LULZ TRUMP YO" about this.
    I'm not even a Trump supporter, I just wanted to challenge the pro-anti-trump rhetoric but it predictably dived into a shitshow...and a conversation about Starrett tools.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Yet you complain when you get them.
    If only you'd gotten that ride in on Sunday.

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    Central Mass Powersports #123

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  24. #249
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Starrett has been a worldwide manufacturing plant for over 50 years. My grandmother retired from there (nurse) and I personally sat at the crosswalk for many years while shift change took place (hint, they're not admin people covered in grease). They are hiring right now, machinists. My friends work there as...you guessed it, machinists.
    So the reason Athol is a shithole is __________.


    Go ahead. Fill in the blank. My wife teaches the kids of those workers, and those of the unemployed masses. I'd love to hear your take from the experiences of your youth vs what I hear every day from her, her coworkers and the residents of the town I know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    If only you'd gotten that ride in on Sunday.
    There is some truth to that.

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  25. #250
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    I don't know about you guys, but I tend not to judge the success or failure of a presidency two months before the President is even inaugurated.
    I'm with ya, but I'm kinda confused to see dove like your post too. I think most of his point of view depended on assessing the current state of affairs and relating them to the president-elect.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilikenapalm View Post
    The S&P500 is a far better indicator than the DOW is.
    Whatever you prefer, they and the NASDAQ are all up notably this week. I'm not the most qualified to speak about the stock market, but I believe there's a big sell off just before the election fearing instability, and then buy back in after. Especially as soon as there's signals it's climbing again. As it did. The tide ebbs and flows. I won't be surprised if it falls again if Trump says or does something insane. But there's other factors that influence the market. It's all pretty dependent on oil, much of which is in the control of other countries.
    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    it predictably dived into a shitshow...and a conversation about Starrett tools.
    You realize you're the driving force in taking it there, right? Obviously not entirely responsible, which is why I said driving force.

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