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Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

  1. #101
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond


    Quote Originally Posted by jeantarrou View Post
    Careful not to be guilty of the same crisicisms you posted, my first thought is that calling their reactions and displeasure tantrums undermines a healthy back and forth. And isn't if fair to give these institutions a good piece of credibility?

    Thinking out loud here, amongst all this passionate for and against the reality is one "side" is in the right, right?
    No one can have no bias, I think it is human nature that everyone has an opinion on a subject. But I will condemn the tantrums as my opinion is they are not healthy nor productive to our society. They are really not going against an ideal as far as I can tell, only a person. That person has yet to come into power or put any legislation into place. Running around yelling "Fuck Donald Trump" and "Not my President" is not productive, it isn't protesting any constructive, it is a show of immaturity. One could view it is them revolting against Trump's views, fine. Revolt against that, but they are making themselves look like idiots and only lessening their clout with the remainder of the public with the way they are acting. Once something real comes about that would benefit from protesting, no one would take them serious. And again, I'm sure others will view it differently.

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  2. #102
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Pretty sure I heard the opposing side saying fuck Obama and not my president, for the last 8 years.

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  3. #103
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    Pretty sure I heard the opposing side saying fuck Obama and not my president, for the last 8 years.
    And that somehow makes it okay? How progressive, doing the exact same thing. More us vs. them is just holding us back as a society. Rinse, wash repeat

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  4. #104
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimedog View Post
    Gotta be careful with that. It's already come out that some of those reports are hoaxes.

    It's beyond disgusting that someone would do such a thing.
    But then somehow an even lower low to fake it.
    I have no choice but to take all of that social media crap with a giant grain of salt right now.

    Twitter is no longer a reliable source for news. Shocking, I know.

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  5. #105
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    Pretty sure I heard the opposing side saying fuck Obama and not my president, for the last 8 years.
    Exactly what I was saying, both sides do it but doesn't make it right. All these negative divisive actions do nothing but hurt the country. And until people come together and stop pointing fingers, we'll never get this country back on the right track. Stop the infighting and maybe we will have good candidates for President or we will continue to have the Trumps and Clintons at the top of the list. That to me is the very scary part.

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  6. #106
    Jamnuts jhawley's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    And that somehow makes it okay? How progressive, doing the exact same thing. More us vs. them is just holding us back as a society. Rinse, wash repeat
    agreed. but even with trump being the outsider (which I get), his whole campaigned effectively shit on a large swatch of people. At least Hillary tried to be inclusive.

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  7. #107
    Senior Member catahoulabuldog's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    agreed. but even with trump being the outsider (which I get), his whole campaigned effectively shit on a large swatch of people. At least Hillary tried to be inclusive.
    how so?

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  8. #108
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Gotta be careful with that. It's already come out that some of those reports are hoaxes.

    It's beyond disgusting that someone would do such a thing.
    But then somehow an even lower low to fake it.
    I have no choice but to take all of that social media crap with a giant grain of salt right now.

    Twitter is no longer a reliable source for news. Shocking, I know.
    The Muslim women opting to not where their Hijab is pretty fucking bad.



    (please forgive grammatical errors, I am not well versed on Muslim faith and what get's capitalized / pluralized)

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  9. #109
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    I'm curious...would 'dangerous as President' fit...?
    Yes, in my opinion. But Hillary at least as much, if not more so. Neither of them, for me, was ethically supportable.

    PhilB

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    Last edited by PhilB; 11-11-16 at 03:58 PM.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    If there were 100 people on a burning oil rig and 48 wanted to be rescued by helicopter, and 49 by boat, (3 just wanted to watch the motherfucker burn) so the boats were called in."
    Except that's not what happened at all. The majority lost (Clinton's ahead in the popular vote, and the gap's still going up). The rest of your argument is irrelevant.

    If you want to make that argument analogous, then say that the helicopter came, and the majority is left scratching their heads saying "hey guys, we're not all going to fit on that helicopter."

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  11. #111
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jeantarrou View Post
    ... Thinking out loud here, amongst all this passionate for and against the reality is one "side" is in the right, right?
    No, that's the problem. BOTH sides were way in the wrong, and are continuing to be aggressively, loudly, hatefully, and equally wrong. And each is blaming the other for all the wrong, while glossing over or flat out denying their own half of the wrong.

    PhilB

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    Last edited by PhilB; 11-11-16 at 11:23 AM.
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  12. #112
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by catahoulabuldog View Post
    how so?
    Scratches head wondering how someone can be THAT intentionally obtuse.

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  13. #113
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    You know what the most fucked up thing about all that is? It's not day 1 in Trumps America, it's just another day in the life here. Those things were always here they just weren't as overt.

    Inflammatory rhetoric isn't going to fix that, it' going to help make it worse.

    It's also still painting an entire group of people based on the actions of a small subset of the group. If it's bad ideal to paint all Muslims as bad based on the radical few why is it suddenly now acceptable to paint 50% of the population who supported Trump as racist, Klan loving, anti-semitickets, etc....

    If the majority of people who voted tor Trump were even a fraction of how they're being portrayed right now we would have people swinging from trees and blood running in the streets.

    So again, by focusing on the worst we have learned nothing. History is destined to repeat itself as they say.
    What inflammatory rhetoric? This is a gathering of reports of racist, sexist, xenophobic, and anti-muslim incidents whose perpetrators invoked Trump's win. Not being able to recognize what's going on in our country without labeling it as partisan IS the problem that you're railing against.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba
    Gotta be careful with that. It's already come out that some of those reports are hoaxes.

    It's beyond disgusting that someone would do such a thing.
    But then somehow an even lower low to fake it.
    I have no choice but to take all of that social media crap with a giant grain of salt right now.

    Twitter is no longer a reliable source for news. Shocking, I know.
    Sure, some are bound to be hoaxes. Not everything on the internet is true. If you throw out a percentage of those you still get a very clear idea of what's going around in our country.

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  14. #114
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    agreed. but even with trump being the outsider (which I get), his whole campaigned effectively shit on a large swatch of people. At least Hillary tried to be inclusive.
    Again, no. That was/is a big part of the problem. The left is more inclusive of race, gender/orientation, stuff like that. But ideologically, they are even less tolerant than the right. Statements like "clinging to guns and religion", and "basket of deplorables", and all of the attitude that anyone who isn't a lockstep liberal is dumb, uneducated, etc. -- That's a really good way to drive a hell of a lot of people away.

    Why do gays, blacks, Hispanics, immigrants, etc. comprise reliable D voting blocks? Because the Rs dislike and disdain them.
    Why does pretty much all of rural America, along with gun owners and business owners, comprise reliable R voting blocks? Because the Ds dislike and despise them.

    Both parties suffer from their own intolerances and failures to be inclusive.

    PhilB

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    Last edited by PhilB; 11-11-16 at 12:35 PM.
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  15. #115
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by KawiSmurf View Post
    Except that's not what happened at all. The majority lost (Clinton's ahead in the popular vote, and the gap's still going up). The rest of your argument is irrelevant.

    If you want to make that argument analogous, then say that the helicopter came, and the majority is left scratching their heads saying "hey guys, we're not all going to fit on that helicopter."
    I feel my description is relevant to the topic at hand. If you'd like to discuss your beef with the electoral college, that is a different topic and one that has been brought to the forefront again in this election. But given the popular vs electoral situation, yes, many find the helicopter a bit cramped.

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  16. #116
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimedog View Post
    What inflammatory rhetoric?
    Seriously? You ask that and post that reply to Colin?

    Yes, that stuff is out there to some degree. It was before Trump and will be after as well.

    Claiming that the 50% or so of people in the U.S. who voted for Trump represent that is certainly inflammatory. Many folks, including some of the media are just doing that. Your statement that even throwing out a percentage of those still gives a "clear idea" of what's going on in this country reinforces my statement as well.

    Do people seriously believe that much of our country behave/think like those examples?

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  17. #117
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    lets see,
    If your black:
    1. there's that whole Klan endorsement I mentioned a few posts up.
    2. Trumps endorses stop and frisk. (which just shits all over the rights a freedoms of black and brown people)
    3. Ever heard of the Central park Five... and the media stunt Trump pulled back then.
    4. trumps whole rise to political fame was with the birther movement, which if you believe in that, then I'm at a lost for words.
    5. disrupting people getting out to vote, in certain counties.

    If your not straight:
    I don't think Trumph himself has an issue with that community, His VP on the other hand flat out worries he is an extremely shitty guy when it comes to gay rights,
    1. He signed the religious freedem resotaion act, which allows business to discriminate gays based on religion,
    2. Conversion therapy anyone?
    3. Opposed the Supreme court ruling on same sex marriage.
    3. Trumps speech after the Orlando shooting, was quote: "I'm going to protect the gays, for Islamic terrorist." Pretty sure that a significant portion of the violence against gays has come from people here.

    I don't even need to get started with all the shit against women, not even counting all the stupid shit he has said, but taking away women's right to choose is something I'm not cool with.

    Oh and lets not forget the Muslims.

    It seems that when some black or Muslim does something wrong they all get lumped together. But if some that is not a minority does something wrong, it was a lone wolf.

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    Last edited by jhawley; 11-11-16 at 11:44 AM.

  18. #118
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimedog View Post
    ... If you throw out a percentage of those you still get a very clear idea of what certain people in politics and the media want everyone to think is going around in our country.
    FTFY.

    PhilB

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  19. #119
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    lets see,
    If your black:
    1. there's that whole Klan endorsement I mentioned a few posts up.
    2. Trumps endorses stop and frisk. (which just shits all over the rights a freedoms of black and brown people)
    3. Ever heard of the Central park Five... and the media stunt Trump pulled back then.
    4. trumps whole rise to political fame was with the birther movement, which if you believe in that, then I'm at a lost for words.
    5. disrupting people getting out to vote, in certain counties.

    If your not straight:
    I don't think Trumph himself has an issue with that community, His VP on the other hand flat out worries he is an extremely shitty guy when it comes to gay rights,
    1. He signed the religious freedem resotaion act, which allows business to discriminate gays based on religion,
    2. Conversion therapy anyone?
    3. Opposed the Supreme court ruling on same sex marriage.
    3. Trumps speech after the Orlando shooting, was quote: "I'm going to protect the gays, for Islamic terrorist." Pretty sure that a significant portion of the violence against gays has come from people here.

    I don't even need to get started with all the shit against women, not even counting all the stupid shit he has said, but taking away women's right to choose is something I'm not cool with.

    Oh and lets not forget the Muslims.

    It seems that when some black or Muslim does something wrong they all get lumped together. But if some that is not a minority does something wrong, it was a lone wolf.
    I don't know if that was directed at me or just a general statement.

    I don't think anyone really wants to defend those things about Trump himself. My point is those aren't the reasons why so many voted his way, though I'm sure some did.

    Regarding your last paragraph though, I'd note that certainly goes both ways. One example is the Orlando shooter. The left went out of their way to paint him as a lone wolf (and blame the gun instead) rather than admit what it really was; a hate crime.

    The Charleston shooting is a good example of the inverse. There we have a white dude who committed a hate crime but suddenly every "redneck" was painted as being just like him. I don't remember him being called a lone wolf...

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    Last edited by e30addict; 11-11-16 at 12:10 PM.
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  20. #120
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    I, for one, will be welcoming the return of the anti-war left. They've been hypocritically dormant for the last 8 years. Aren't liberals supposed to be the ones who care about poor brown people in other countries?

    I'd imagine that if you were a resident of one of the 17 countries (10% of the countries in the world) that the Obama administration (with a significant amount of Hillary's involvement and assistance) has bombed, you might have a different opinion of what the critical issues are in America, and what the important differences between Hillary and Trump might be.

    That's why I could not vote for McCain, even though he was running against Obama. Like Hillary, he's a warhawk. Barr for the LP was a real nosehold vote, too, but that's what I voted that election.

    PhilB

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    Last edited by PhilB; 11-11-16 at 04:02 PM.
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  21. #121
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Seriously? You ask that and post that reply to Colin?

    Yes, that stuff is out there to some degree. It was before Trump and will be after as well.

    Claiming that the 50% or so of people in the U.S. who voted for Trump represent that is certainly inflammatory. Many folks, including some of the media are just doing that. Your statement that even throwing out a percentage of those still gives a "clear idea" of what's going on in this country reinforces my statement as well.

    Do people seriously believe that much of our country behave/think like those examples?
    I'm purposely not saying the things that you seem to think that I'm saying. I'm saying that these people, these "deplorables", heard what they wanted to hear from Trump. He was unwilling to lose their support so he didn't speak out, so now that he won they feel validated in their beliefs. Not all people who supported Trump are deplorables and I really hope it's a small percentage of the population. What I know is that he will be the next president and he needs to speak out against them.

    Also for clarification 50% more people didn't vote at all than voted for Trump. He got 60M votes, 90M didn't bother to vote for president, 60M voted for her, and 6M voted 3rd party. Rough numbers, but that means ~28% of Americans voted for him.

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    Last edited by Crimedog; 11-11-16 at 12:21 PM.

  22. #122
    Senior Member catahoulabuldog's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Scratches head wondering how someone can be THAT intentionally obtuse.
    why guess when I can ask others to be specific?

    It was also easy because there was no right or wrong answer... Jhawley has had a much different cultural experience in the US than I. For those of us who attempt to understand others and use our minds rather than emotions and apply reason to a discussion I appreciate hearing from him because that can help shape my understanding of this topic. And..while mechanically challenged Mr. Hawley is generally a good person. I dont have to agree with him, I will form my own opinions. I dont have to listen to him. I choose to do so because I was taught that everyone plays a part in this world...... and that's the one way I can do a small part to get things where they need to be.

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  23. #123
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimedog View Post
    ... Also for clarification 50% more people didn't vote at all than voted for Trump. He got 60M votes, 90M didn't bother to vote for president, 60M voted for her, and 6M voted 3rd party. Rough numbers, but that means ~28% of Americans voted for him.
    That's approximately true (±about 2%) for pretty much every president and every election in America.

    PhilB

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  24. #124
    Senior Member AEG's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    I, for one, will be welcoming the return of the anti-war left. They've been hypocritically dormant for the last 8 years. ...PhilB
    I think the main reason for that is:
    1. the USSR/KGB (now Russia/FSB) run out of money to finance them around the world.
    2. Switched their priorities to the different targets.
    3. All of the above.

    But shifting of the American academia to the far left was an utmost success...

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    Last edited by AEG; 11-11-16 at 12:42 PM.

  25. #125
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    I think half of why he won is that people underestimated him. He IS that smart. He is absolutely brilliant at what he does, which is snake-oil salesman, con artist, promote himself. Too many people, including Hillary and co., comforted/deluded themselves by thinking Trump was a joke, an idiot, not a serious threat. And Trump used that dismissive attitude to his advantage. He's a consummate asshole, but he's not stupid.

    PhilB
    I think people underestimated him but I'm not even sure he expected to win this election. I'm quite sure he wouldn't have won it if a) the DNC hadn't coronated the most hated democrat in human history, and b) Hillary hadn't herself made several screw-ups. Despite Bill urging her otherwise, she kept refusing to visit Wisconsin and other white working class areas, and then she made that idiotic "basket of deplorables" speech, virtually ensuring that no white lower class male would ever vote for her.

    Apparently after she made that speech her aides were all looking at her speechless and she remarked, "Oops, I may have stepped in it."

    Despite all this, Trump's victory was pretty narrow.

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