Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789101112 LastLast
Results 176 to 200 of 293

Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

  1. #176
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,131

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond


    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    OK, I get what you guys are saying and I kind of agree now that I think about it. She seems to talk about working people rather than really engaging with them directly. And I agree that her personality doesn't play well on TV.
    I think that's a key. The left was apparently completely blindsided by Trump's win, and I think it's partly because they were taking the support of the unions as meaning they could take the vote of the working man for granted. Well, outside of government workers, the unions don't represent a very big percentage of the workers anymore, and even a lot of those they do represent are mad about the unions being focused too much on taking dues and using them to elect Democrats who don't do much of anything for them.

    You've got to reconnect with the average American. Even though I'm not a liberal by any means, I'm not a conservative by any means either. Ideally, to be honest, I want y'all to be a powerful minority in government -- strong enough to block the theocrats and the bigots, but not strong enough to implement more socialism in economics or much gun control. I do want y'all to find a candidate in 2020 who can beat Trump out of a second term. Ideally (again), you'd get the presidency back, but the R's would retain control of at least part of Congress, and both of y'alls can keep each other in check. And there would be a good deal less of a chance of seeing a President Pence that way. He's really the scary one.

    In addition to the flaws of Trump himself, it worries me that the R's kept both houses along with gaining the presidency. The possible saving grace is that Trump isn't a very good Republican, and the R party isn't very well unified behind him. A good deal of the R party (the conservative and the libertarian wings) doesn't like him either. Aside from the demogoguery, he's not much if any more of a conservative than Hillary, really.

    PhilB

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by PhilB; 11-14-16 at 03:01 PM.
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  2. #177
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,359

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    Ideally, to be honest, I want y'all to be a powerful minority in government -- strong enough to block the theocrats and the bigots, but not strong enough to implement more socialism in economics or much gun control.
    Sorry Phil, the election was last week. Can't change your vote now.

    Downsides to trying to get a 3rd party into the game is what just happened. Sucks, but it's the truth.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  3. #178
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,131

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Sorry Phil, the election was last week. Can't change your vote now.
    I don't have any interest in changing my vote; I'm well satisfied with having done the right thing. What did I say that made you think I wanted to have voted differently?

    The third party votes had little or nothing to do with H vs. T, which I knew and said all along. Johnson was drawing pretty evenly from both sides, and Stein, while drawing mostly from the left, was not a significant factor. No one else drew enough to matter at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Downsides to trying to get a 3rd party into the game is what just happened. Sucks, but it's the truth.
    What just happened wasn't "downsides to trying to get a 3rd party into the game". What just happened was downsides of you nominating a corrupt lying cheating warmonger that nobody likes.

    The only downside that happened with regard to getting a third party into the game is that we didn't get the 5% we needed to clear the next big hurdle. Hopefully we made enough noise that we can keep building on it and hit that in 2020. The LP did do well enough in several states (including my own, NH) to make official party status and gain automatic ballot access and some other advantages. That will help some. One step at a time.

    PhilB

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by PhilB; 11-14-16 at 03:46 PM.
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  4. #179
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,359

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    I'm fairly certain the people who don't approve of Trump do so in such a way that this scared them from voting against him in the next election.


    The rest was a joke.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  5. #180
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    the fairest of havens
    Age
    41
    Posts
    14,019

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Just to satisfy my own curiosity, just how long have you been saying "maybe next time"?

    Not to insinuate you should give up any of your convictions on this matter, of course.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Cliff's Cycles KTM
    NETRA enduro B-vet
    Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.

  6. #181
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,131

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    I'm fairly certain the people who don't approve of Trump do so in such a way that this scared them from voting against him in the next election.
    Wait, what? That sentence made no sense to me. The people who don't like Trump won't vote against him next time, why?

    PhilB

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  7. #182
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,131

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Just to satisfy my own curiosity, just how long have you been saying "maybe next time"?

    Not to insinuate you should give up any of your convictions on this matter, of course.
    Personally, 1984. I can't wake people up any faster, apparently. But progess, while glacial in speed, is in the right direction each time. The numbers for the LP keep growing slowly. This time was better than any previous, and about twice what we got in 2012. Confidence in, and approval of, the government keeps going down over the whole country, and that's positive for us.

    The race seems to be whether we can become a major enough factor to make some corrections to this country's course before you all (both R and D) collapse the whole thing. I don't know if that will happen, but I can only keep trying to help that to happen. I don't see any other alternative, other than just giving up. Which I'm not up for doing. My mother said I was born stubborn and insubordinate, and, well, that hasn't changed.

    PhilB

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by PhilB; 11-14-16 at 04:15 PM.
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  8. #183
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,417

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    I've been rather quiet on facebook namely because I'm shocked at the shit coming out of people's keyboards. As a black man in America, how in the actual fuck can you say trump is good. The fucking clan endorsed him. To me it feels like that just gave racist a huge free pass, and a huge smack in the face to people that look like me.

    I can't look past that.
    The endorsement is interesting, but is it possible people are putting too much weight behind it? I mean, since when do we care what crazy people think? It's like saying some homeless conspiracy ranter at the bus station endorsed some candidate. So what?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    nedirtriders.com

  9. #184
    Lifer ilikenapalm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,861

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    The endorsement is interesting, but is it possible people are putting too much weight behind it? I mean, since when do we care what crazy people think? It's like saying some homeless conspiracy ranter at the bus station endorsed some candidate. So what?
    The Klan stands for some seriously fucked up shit and Trump did nothing to not accept the endorsement. That's why it matters.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  10. #185
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikenapalm View Post
    The Klan stands for some seriously fucked up shit and Trump did nothing to not accept the endorsement. That's why it matters.
    I thought the endorsement was rejected?

    Trump campaign denounces KKK's official newspaper's support - CNNPolitics.com

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  11. #186
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,417

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikenapalm View Post
    Trump did nothing to not accept the endorsement. That's why it matters.
    Hm... that's a good point though I'm kinda torn on whether it's responsibility to even acknowledge them. The same way maybe we shouldn't. Bunch of nobodies we should all stop listening to, or giving any power to their endorsement.

    Edit: interesting, I thought it was correct that they hadn't denounced it. I wonder why, since that seems so clear they did.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by aldend123; 11-14-16 at 05:11 PM.
    nedirtriders.com

  12. #187
    Lifer ilikenapalm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,861

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    This is the first I'm hearing of the denouncement. My timeline is all fucked up, but I think the Klan came out and endorsed him sometime during the summer. Trump didn't praise the endorsement, but he didn't condemn it, either.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  13. #188
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,131

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Hm... that's a good point though I'm kinda torn on whether it's responsibility to even acknowledge them. The same way maybe we shouldn't. Bunch of nobodies we should all stop listening to, or giving any power to their endorsement.

    Edit: interesting, I thought it was correct that they hadn't denounced it. I wonder why, since that seems so clear they did.
    It didn't fit the narrative. Like a newspaper headlining an accusation, and then printing the correction/retraction at the bottom of page 5 -- Trump didn't denounce it fast enough to beat the pounce of the first headlines, and anything that happens after that is off the radar.

    Again, note that I am not in any way defending the prejudices he did express, and the awful things he did in fact say. I note, however, that his detractors haven't been entirely scrupulous, either.

    PhilB

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  14. #189
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikenapalm View Post
    This is the first I'm hearing of the denouncement. My timeline is all fucked up, but I think the Klan came out and endorsed him sometime during the summer. Trump didn't praise the endorsement, but he didn't condemn it, either.
    In any case there are plenty of other things to call him out on.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by e30addict; 11-14-16 at 05:29 PM.
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  15. #190
    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Norf Sho
    Age
    40
    Posts
    11,233

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    It's like saying some homeless conspiracy ranter at the bus station endorsed some candidate. So what?
    Well then the candidate makes him part of his team haha. I'm waiting for Alex Jones to get brought on.

    So, Lizzy just isn't... TV enough. Got it.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Alex
    I can resist everything but Pete's mom.

  16. #191
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,417

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Meh, either way, everyone repeat after me: "There's still a klan?"
    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    In any case there are plenty of other things to call him out on.
    That's certainly true. Though when you actually look at some of them rather than the way they were reported, they become a little less scary.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    nedirtriders.com

  17. #192
    Lifer ilikenapalm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,861

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    It doesn't matter if the kkk is only like 8 dudes sitting in a room. They still have the name and history attached to them. For Trump not to immediately come out and denounce their endorsement and their existence is a giant problem. Yes, there are plenty of other reasons to hate him, but for many people, this is the only thing that matters.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  18. #193
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Chichester, NH
    Posts
    4,400

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    While I agree, keep in mind Mr. Trump is a narcissist.

    He has trouble "denouncing" anyone that endorses him.
    He doesn't support anyone who doesn't endorse him, even if they align on policy.

    He was extremely critical of both Mr. Christie and Mr. Carson until they endorsed him, when they became his closest allies.

    It is a character flaw, but I really don't consider it more than that (and please don't consider that an "endorsement" of his behavior... Just a result of his personality).

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  19. #194
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Meh, either way, everyone repeat after me: "There's still a klan?"

    That's certainly true. Though when you actually look at some of them rather than the way they were reported, they become a little less scary.
    I'm more concerned with the stuff he has done vs. the stuff he has said.

    He's a showman and knows how to sell to a crowd. He's already backing away from a lot of it.

    I'm willing to take a wait and see approach now that it's done.

    Pence on the other hand is just all kinds of bad no matter how you look at it.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by e30addict; 11-14-16 at 08:26 PM.
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  20. #195
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,131

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Although I don't agree with their "solution" of more socialist/populist economics, of just giving more stuff to women as the path to success, here's an article from The Nation that helps identify the problem:
    Inequality Among Women Is Crucial to Understanding Hillary’s Loss | The Nation

    PhilB

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  21. #196
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    This was a comment from someone on a post Bernie Sanders made. It's a nice change from all the white racist deplorables are to blame for Trump rhetoric.

    The reason for Republican's recent success is because the left has gone so far left that it's pissing off all the moderates. This hyper offended, fanatical pc, safe space needing, pronoun obsessing, demographic pandering nonsense has gone completely off the deep end. I mean I have no intention of ever voting republican, but the dems have left me with no motivation to support them for anything other then getting you in charge of the budget committee. The killing blow to the party is nominating, or rather self appointing, the most corrupt hellspawn sociopath of a candidate this nation has ever seen.

    I am in no way happy Trump is going to be president, but the extremist left and it legions of crybabies brought this on themselves, now we're all going to suffer because of it.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by e30addict; 11-14-16 at 11:14 PM.
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  22. #197
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,417

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    That post operates under the premise that many of the left have gone that direction. I'm not sure it's the majority. The people actively pushing for change seem to be far and few. The remainder are trying to do what they think is right. Not call person the wrong label, not upset someone. Basically, don't be the modern version of grandpa who still uses the n-word 'because he grew up using it'.

    Many seem to half-joke about the assault on xmas, the starbucks coffee cups, 'happy holidays', the safe space stuff, or gender fluidity etc. I think it's a vocal, active minority who drive these changes, with the majority following because 'I don't know, and at this point, I'm afraid to ask'. I'm not sure a lot of these concepts are ridiculous to consider. What's ridiculous is the idea that even merely trying to question/debate/discuss them makes you the opposition.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    nedirtriders.com

  23. #198
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    the fairest of havens
    Age
    41
    Posts
    14,019

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    This was a comment from someone on a post Bernie Sanders made. It's a nice change from all the white racist deplorables are to blame for Trump rhetoric.
    Is this the new "thanks Obama"?
    We can point fingers all we want, it isn't going to change any of the current situation.
    But do tell us some more about how corrupt Clinton is, like that isn't rhetoric.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Cliff's Cycles KTM
    NETRA enduro B-vet
    Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.

  24. #199
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seacoast NH
    Posts
    17,118

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Voter turnout fell to a 20 year low this election. Given the polarizing nature of the candidates, you have to ask why.

    Voter Turnout Fell, Especially In States That Clinton Won | FiveThirtyEight

    With all that went down with the nomination I imagine more than one Bernie die-hard was left feeling pretty burnt by the process. Burnt enough to say "fuck all" and stay home? I wonder.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  25. #200
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    That post operates under the premise that many of the left have gone that direction. I'm not sure it's the majority. The people actively pushing for change seem to be far and few. The remainder are trying to do what they think is right. Not call person the wrong label, not upset someone. Basically, don't be the modern version of grandpa who still uses the n-word 'because he grew up using it'.

    Many seem to half-joke about the assault on xmas, the starbucks coffee cups, 'happy holidays', the safe space stuff, or gender fluidity etc. I think it's a vocal, active minority who drive these changes, with the majority following because 'I don't know, and at this point, I'm afraid to ask'. I'm not sure a lot of these concepts are ridiculous to consider. What's ridiculous is the idea that even merely trying to question/debate/discuss them makes you the opposition.
    I don't know if it's the majority or not, but there seems to be more of the vocal ones that I know than not. In any case I think the statement there has more validity than the claims racist, white America is entirely responsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Is this the new "thanks Obama"?
    We can point fingers all we want, it isn't going to change any of the current situation.
    But do tell us some more about how corrupt Clinton is, like that isn't rhetoric.
    Not sure, but Clinton being corrupt isn't just rhetoric to those who actually pay attention. I also view it less as "pointing fingers" and more as trying to learn what really happened. There are a ton of lessons to be learned all around on this election. In order to learn you have one be honest about what really happened. That post may have been towards the rant side tone wise, but there is more truth there than simply blaming white America.

    It's pretty notable that Trump did better among the Latino population than Romney did. I'm pretty sure that wasn't because of racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Voter turnout fell to a 20 year low this election. Given the polarizing nature of the candidates, you have to ask why.

    Voter Turnout Fell, Especially In States That Clinton Won | FiveThirtyEight

    With all that went down with the nomination I imagine more than one Bernie die-hard was left feeling pretty burnt by the process. Burnt enough to say "fuck all" and stay home? I wonder.
    Data seems to point to a lot of people saying fuck it and staying home. Black males in particular saw little reason to vote for her. Essentially women and minorities of every color where expected to show up just because. Reality turned out to be she didn't give enough people a reason to actually vote for her, not being Trump wasn't good enough.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •