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Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

  1. #201
    Senior Member AEG's Avatar
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond


    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Is this the new "thanks Obama"?
    We can point fingers all we want, it isn't going to change any of the current situation.
    But do tell us some more about how corrupt Clinton is, like that isn't rhetoric.
    This one blamed (or thanked) Obama:

    "By Ben Shapiro | The Daily Wire

    The Democrats chose the form of their destructor.

    And his form was Barack Obama.

    Under President Obama, Democrats have lost just under 1,000 state legislature seats, 69 seats in the House of Representatives, 13 seats in the Senate, and 12 governorships.

    And now they may lose the presidency.

    The reason: Democrats traded in their old coalition working class white voters, upper crust coastal elites, single women, and minorities for a new coalition that focuses much more heavily on minority turnout and abandons working class white voters.
    ..."

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    Last edited by AEG; 11-15-16 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #202
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    A few interesting and perhaps unexpected comments here. The ones from the Muslim immigrant family and the gay millennial stood out to me.

    Donald Trump voters - Important political issues - Washington Post

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    Last edited by e30addict; 11-15-16 at 10:46 AM.
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  3. #203
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    one of the quotes in there is that he would run the country like a business.

    that seems like the biggest copout. Yes trump is wealthy, but I shit load of his business are shady, have failed, filed multiple bankruptcy's and he keeps getting richer.

    If any one of us files bankruptcy were a pretty much fucked for a very long time.

    It like when your rich you just keep getting more money despite everything. Case in point a very good friend of mine was in prison in upstate new York for committing mortgage fraud, While he was in I fisted several times, and this prison was basically a club fed for white collar Hassidic Jewish guys. there were 3 or 4 guys serving time that were on that document American Greed, for embezzling millions and billons of dollars. Talking with some of them, they still had money coming in, and when they were released it would go back to business as usual.


    I don't think DT is that good of a business person, have you seem the Atlantic city boardwalk? its a fucking dump.

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    Last edited by jhawley; 11-15-16 at 11:42 AM.

  4. #204
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    You guys wanna take this one on?

    Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond-nesr-cage-fights-jpg

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    one of the quotes in there is that he would run the country like a business.

    that seems like the biggest copout. Yes trump is wealthy, but I shit load of his business are shady, have failed, filed multiple bankruptcy's and he keeps getting richer.

    If any one of us files bankruptcy were a pretty much fucked for a very long time.

    It like when your rich you just keep getting more money despite everything. Case in point a very good friend of mine was in prison in upstate new York for committing mortgage fraud, While he was in I fisted several times, and this prison was basically a club fed for white collar Hassidic Jewish guys. there were 3 or 4 guys serving time that were on that document American Greed, for embezzling millions and billons of dollars. Talking with some of them, they still had money coming in, and when they were released it would go back to business as usual.


    I don't think DT is that good of a business person, have you seem the Atlantic city boardwalk? its a fucking dump.
    Agreed. There's a shit ton of things to disagree with there. I do like the insight into why people chose him even if I can find fault with their reasoning though.

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    Last edited by e30addict; 11-15-16 at 11:54 AM.
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  6. #206
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    You guys wanna take this one on?

    Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond-nesr-cage-fights-jpg
    I completely agree there's a lot of fear mongering. On both sides, but right now mostly those who fear trump. However, you realize how much is wrong with that spectacularly incorrect graphic, right? The whole thing.

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  7. #207
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    You guys wanna take this one on?

    Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond-nesr-cage-fights-jpg
    I see what you did there, and for the sake of this country we made this bed, so lets hope that he does good for everybody.

    But the immigrant one.. that laughable.

    So I guess if we change the word immigrant to attractive model, that gold dug her way to the top then sure.. What about his 2 other ex wives? I'm sorry but I refuse to believe in relationships like that, I have one here at my job. where he is 30 years her senior and with more money than brains, and its her 1st marriage and his 3rd.. yeah really married for love.

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    Last edited by jhawley; 11-15-16 at 12:02 PM.

  8. #208
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    I completely agree there's a lot of fear mongering. On both sides, but right now mostly those who fear trump. However, you realize how much is wrong with that spectacularly incorrect graphic, right? The whole thing.
    Typically when someone asks a question, they're soliciting input to form an opinion...unless of course they're trolling.

    I asked a genuine question with no expectation of genuine answers.

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  9. #209
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by jhawley View Post
    I see what you did there, and for the sake of this country we made this bed, so lets hope that he does good for everybody.

    But the immigrant one.. that laughable.

    So I guess if we change the word immigrant to attractive model, that gold dug her way to the top then sure.. What about his 2 other ex wives? I'm sorry but I refuse to believe in relationships like that, I have one here at my job. where he is 30 years her senior and with more money than brains.
    Maybe it's love, I'm in *no position to judge another's relationship. 50/50 sarcasm on that one.

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    Last edited by cdovego; 11-15-16 at 12:08 PM. Reason: I'm actually working and didn't proofread
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Typically when someone asks a question, they're soliciting input to form an opinion...unless of course they're trolling.

    I asked a genuine question with no expectation of genuine answers.
    1. Lead to war: Russia was expected to be his buddy the whole time. No surprise there. But how bout North Korea? Or China? Or Iran? Or anyone who he mouths off to and/or gets upset by? During his campaign, and in his TV shows, he did not demonstrate a man who acts in a calm, rational manner. Many are very concerned about a man with his easily upset ego having that much power.
    2. Women's rights - The way he speaks to and about women does a lot to cause women to fear him. He is quick to talk very negatively about women he doesn't like (usually with little reason). Combine that with statements he's made about abortion, pregnancy in the work place, and relationships and it does not signal confidence.
    3. Fear of safety - it alleges the only danger is the liberal rioters. But they aren't really a danger, and there's greater dangers right now that are unrelated to any of this. This one's probably the most dramatic of the fear mongering claims. But prior to his election, there was a growing number of people worried about police power, unchecked government power (e.g. patriot act), prosecuting whistle blowers, persecuting journalists etc. and Trump seems to be on the side of keeping or increasing all of that. The most extreme form is that he eventually becomes hitler-esque.
    4. Economy will die - The fact that the dow jumped is meh. You could also say the dow plummeted right before that too. His views on trade agreements, the mexico wall, limiting chinese labor etc are fairly radical. One major tax plan analysis of his suggested that his tax plan would operate at a loss every year. Though that's to be taken with a grain of salt considering it operates on so many fixed assumptions which he would likely alter if he followed his campaign goals.
    5. His wife is not an example that immigrants are welcome. It's an example of preferential treatment and hypocrisy. His wall, goals of nationalistic isolationism when it comes to labor, and intention of drastically reducing and/or disallowing refugees and muslims don't indicate he is interested in enabling immigrants broadly.

    Note that I'm talking about he's said during his campaign. The difficult part is he just makes it up on the spot so often that I'm not sure there's a lot of consistency, and I think we're seeing now that he's in office he's considering doing the opposite of his claims in some cases.

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Jesus Christ, if I have to try to explain the concept of why I am 100% immigration, but 100% against illegal immigration again. Its 2 entirely different concepts you fucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
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  12. #212
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    Jesus Christ, if I have to try to explain the concept of why I am 100% immigration, but 100% against illegal immigration again. Its 2 entirely different concepts you fucks.
    No, it isn't two entirely different concepts. It's two very closely related concepts. A great deal of illegal immigration is a direct consequence of how fucked up, irrational, unwieldy, expensive, slow, and ridiculous our legal immigration process is. There's no good reason for this -- legal immigration should be a basic background check to the extent that is possible, and a test for TB or other diseases that can cause epidemics. It should take 2 weeks and cost about $250 at the most. I guarantee that this would result in illegal immigration plummeting to almost zero overnight. Almost everyone who immigrates illegally would LOVE to do it legally, but simply can't because of how crazy our system is.

    PhilB

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  13. #213
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    1. Lead to war: Russia was expected to be his buddy the whole time. No surprise there. But how bout North Korea? Or China? Or Iran? Or anyone who he mouths off to and/or gets upset by? During his campaign, and in his TV shows, he did not demonstrate a man who acts in a calm, rational manner. Many are very concerned about a man with his easily upset ego having that much power.
    2. Women's rights - The way he speaks to and about women does a lot to cause women to fear him. He is quick to talk very negatively about women he doesn't like (usually with little reason). Combine that with statements he's made about abortion, pregnancy in the work place, and relationships and it does not signal confidence.
    3. Fear of safety - it alleges the only danger is the liberal rioters. But they aren't really a danger, and there's greater dangers right now that are unrelated to any of this. This one's probably the most dramatic of the fear mongering claims. But prior to his election, there was a growing number of people worried about police power, unchecked government power (e.g. patriot act), prosecuting whistle blowers, persecuting journalists etc. and Trump seems to be on the side of keeping or increasing all of that. The most extreme form is that he eventually becomes hitler-esque.
    4. Economy will die - The fact that the dow jumped is meh. You could also say the dow plummeted right before that too. His views on trade agreements, the mexico wall, limiting chinese labor etc are fairly radical. One major tax plan analysis of his suggested that his tax plan would operate at a loss every year. Though that's to be taken with a grain of salt considering it operates on so many fixed assumptions which he would likely alter if he followed his campaign goals.
    5. His wife is not an example that immigrants are welcome. It's an example of preferential treatment and hypocrisy. His wall, goals of nationalistic isolationism when it comes to labor, and intention of drastically reducing and/or disallowing refugees and muslims don't indicate he is interested in enabling immigrants broadly.

    Note that I'm talking about he's said during his campaign. The difficult part is he just makes it up on the spot so often that I'm not sure there's a lot of consistency, and I think we're seeing now that he's in office he's considering doing the opposite of his claims in some cases.
    Well, out of respect for the effort you put in on this I'll offer my thoughts - as succinctly as I can...

    1. North Korea was not our friend before this. Russia was a vocal enemy.
    2. Trump is the first to have a woman run his successful campaign, that's either a fact or a lie - which is it?
    3. It perhaps alleges something, I'm not sure how to have a reasonable discord with you on this one. People burning, rioting, protesting and blocking traffic - seems pretty clear.
    4. The DOW is either at a record high or it isn't - which is it?
    5. She's either a non-American born immigrant who went through the process and is now first lady or it's a lie - which is it?

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    No, it isn't two entirely different concepts. It's two very closely related concepts. A great deal of illegal immigration is a direct consequence of how fucked up, irrational, unwieldy, expensive, slow, and ridiculous our legal immigration process is. There's no good reason for this -- legal immigration should be a basic background check to the extent that is possible, and a test for TB or other diseases that can cause epidemics. It should take 2 weeks and cost about $250 at the most. I guarantee that this would result in illegal immigration plummeting to almost zero overnight. Almost everyone who immigrates illegally would LOVE to do it legally, but simply can't because of how crazy our system is.

    PhilB
    Why were you speeding?

    65 just didn't seem reasonable to me.

    Here's your ticket, sir.

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    1. Good. Now we can forget that they invaded and changed borders of a sovereign nation and while they kill civilians under the guise of "defeating ISIS".
    2. I'm sure she was so valuable beyond the "well she's a woman, see?" point that he appointed her chief of staff. Right? Oh.
    3. Glad you feel that you are in danger while sitting in your car while a protester walks into fucking traffic in front of you. Sorry you were inconvenienced by someone exercising their first amendment rights.
    4. You allude to the point that the DOW is a sole indicator of economic prosperity. It works well for investors, but not for the vast majority of this country that the investors make money off of.
    5. You clearly have no grasp of anything but Boolean decision making on everything. If you think somehow a eastern European runway model marrying a wealthy silver-spoon mogul has anything to do with what real immigration issues are, you are fucking clueless or so intentionally obtuse that there isn't a point in discussing anything with you.

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Luckily I remembered you come on here just to stir shit up so that's how I'm explaining to myself your middle school comprehension of national and world issues.

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  17. #217
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    1. North Korea was not our friend before this. Russia was a vocal enemy.
    2. Trump is the first to have a woman run his successful campaign, that's either a fact or a lie - which is it?
    3. It perhaps alleges something, I'm not sure how to have a reasonable discord with you on this one. People burning, rioting, protesting and blocking traffic - seems pretty clear.
    4. The DOW is either at a record high or it isn't - which is it?
    5. She's either a non-American born immigrant who went through the process and is now first lady or it's a lie - which is it?
    1. Sure, but the point is that keeping the enemies to a minimum, and keeping the ones we have happy enough to not take action against us, requires some diplomacy. I think even some diehard Trump supporters have to admit that's an area he's deficient in. Hell, put another way his fans like his outspokenness. Combine that with his strong support of our military, and goals to increase it. Just as an example, he claimed we're gonna build a wall and then told Mexico he'd send them the bill. Even if he doesn't follow through, that's not how you make nice with your neighbors.
    2. It is a fact. I did not dispute that fact. It also does not negate many of the things he has said.
    3. I don't think we're gonna get anywhere with this one based on your other responses.
    4. Again, don't dispute the current state. I said a lot more on this topic which you seem to have overlooked. Speaking specifically about the dow, it might signal optimism and hope. But the market was also extremely high just before the crash in 1929. You should not focus on the dow's current state so strongly. The reality is much more complicated
    5. What? She's both. She's a foreign born immigrant who married an American, became a naturalized citizen, and is now the first lady. I don't understand what your point is.

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  18. #218
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Why were you speeding?

    25 on a four-lane limited access highway just didn't seem reasonable to me.

    Here's your ticket, sir.
    FTFY.

    PhilB

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Well, out of respect for the effort you put in on this I'll offer my thoughts - as succinctly as I can...

    1. North Korea was not our friend before this. Russia was a vocal enemy.
    2. Trump is the first to have a woman run his successful campaign, that's either a fact or a lie - which is it?
    3. It perhaps alleges something, I'm not sure how to have a reasonable discord with you on this one. People burning, rioting, protesting and blocking traffic - seems pretty clear.
    4. The DOW is either at a record high or it isn't - which is it?
    5. She's either a non-American born immigrant who went through the process and is now first lady or it's a lie - which is it?
    1) So -- he makes nice with one other country, and pisses off dozens -- is that a good diplomat or a bad one?
    2) So -- he promotes one woman, and treats a lot of other women very badly -- is that woman-friendly behavior, or not?
    3) So -- liberals have protests, some of which turn violent, meanwhile bigotry is up against Muslims, Hispanics, and others based on Trump's rhetoric -- is that public safety or not?
    4) So -- the DOW is up for now, but that's not anything like a complete picture of the economy; we have a lot of bubbles about to pop, and Trump's stated positions of protectionism and trade restrictions are flat out stupid -- is that a healthy economy or not?
    5) So -- he has favored one immigrant, but treats millions of others very badly -- is that welcoming to immigrants or not?

    This whole bit of "his overall policies are bad, but in this one single instance he did something different, so he must not be bad" is ridiculously stupid.
    Ridiculously. As in, I ridicule you for posting something so dumb. Ha ha ha. I laugh at you.

    PhilB

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    Almost everyone who immigrates illegally would LOVE to do it legally, but simply can't because of how crazy our system is.

    PhilB
    Well ... tough? That's the way it is at the time. I do think immigration should be simplified so those that want to be here for the right reasons can be ... BUUTTTT the laws the law now. I have zero sympathy for people who brag about breaking the law getting caught up in that now. Same way the dipshits speeding and wheelieing and posting shit on youtube, I don't feel sorry for them at all either. If you do things on the low, and keep your head down, odds are you may not get caught and everyone moves on their merry way. But if you are open about it, and brag about it, or do something stupid to get caught, well, that's on you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    Ridiculously. As in, I ridicule you for posting something so dumb. Ha ha ha. I laugh at you.
    See? Isn't it good to have a little fun once in a while?

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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    No, it isn't two entirely different concepts. It's two very closely related concepts. A great deal of illegal immigration is a direct consequence of how fucked up, irrational, unwieldy, expensive, slow, and ridiculous our legal immigration process is. There's no good reason for this -- legal immigration should be a basic background check to the extent that is possible, and a test for TB or other diseases that can cause epidemics. It should take 2 weeks and cost about $250 at the most. I guarantee that this would result in illegal immigration plummeting to almost zero overnight. Almost everyone who immigrates illegally would LOVE to do it legally, but simply can't because of how crazy our system is.

    PhilB
    Interesting enough Canada takes about a year to process and charges considerably more than $250 in fees. They don't exactly just take anyone either. The U.S. may have a lengthy and laborious process, but it irks me when people make it seem like the U.S. is the bad guy and every other country in the world is oh so welcoming.

    I seem to recall there's a laundry list of requirements for people in the U.S. to immigrate to Panama and retire for example.

    Ironically, I'm sure part of the reason a lot of these celebrities who said they're leaving haven't is that other civilized countries have immigration laws just as strong as ours. The big difference is that they enforce them more and do so quietly.

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  23. #223
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Luckily I remembered you come on here just to stir shit up so that's how I'm explaining to myself your middle school comprehension of national and world issues.
    It seems like you're very upset lately. Good luck with that - maybe take a hot lap around Athol in the miata.

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  24. #224
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    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    1) So -- he makes nice with one other country, and pisses off dozens -- is that a good diplomat or a bad one?
    2) So -- he promotes one woman, and treats a lot of other women very badly -- is that woman-friendly behavior, or not?
    3) So -- liberals have protests, some of which turn violent, meanwhile bigotry is up against Muslims, Hispanics, and others based on Trump's rhetoric -- is that public safety or not?
    4) So -- the DOW is up for now, but that's not anything like a complete picture of the economy; we have a lot of bubbles about to pop, and Trump's stated positions of protectionism and trade restrictions are flat out stupid -- is that a healthy economy or not?
    5) So -- he has favored one immigrant, but treats millions of others very badly -- is that welcoming to immigrants or not?

    This whole bit of "his overall policies are bad, but in this one single instance he did something different, so he must not be bad" is ridiculously stupid.
    Ridiculously. As in, I ridicule you for posting something so dumb. Ha ha ha. I laugh at you.

    PhilB
    I talked about a snapshot in time of current variables. It appears to me that you're talking about perceived outcomes. 1's and 0's versus abc's.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Central Mass Powersports #123

    1000rr, zx10r, rmz450, RE classic, r6, S4Rs, xr123, sv650(2), cr250 and a box truck that leaks power steering fluid.

  25. #225
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
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    20,359

    Re: Election 2016 - The Day After and beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    It seems like you're very upset lately. Good luck with that - maybe take a hot lap around Athol in the miata.
    And see all those Trump lawn signs from people who are on welfare? No thanks.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

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