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Guns...

  1. #7351
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...



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  2. #7352
    Used to know a thing or 2 eboos's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    That was probably the best, most level headed and well reasoned anti-reciprocity article I have seen. However, as a point:
    With no national database for concealed carry permits, the NYPD says it would not be able to immediately determine whether someone was legally carrying or not.
    How do they determine the validity of an out of state driver's license or registration? Honestly, I don't know. Is there a database that says if the out of state driver's license is valid? Is the possession of an out of state driver's license presumed to be valid until somehow proven otherwise? Shouldn't a carry permit be treated similarly?

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  3. #7353
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    That was probably the best, most level headed and well reasoned anti-reciprocity article I have seen. However, as a point: How do they determine the validity of an out of state driver's license or registration? Honestly, I don't know. Is there a database that says if the out of state driver's license is valid? Is the possession of an out of state driver's license presumed to be valid until somehow proven otherwise? Shouldn't a carry permit be treated similarly?
    The quick and dirty answer would be if you're not in NCIC for something that would make you a prohibited person you would be good to go.........

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  4. #7354
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Buds has S&W, Ruger and Windham ARís for $500 right now if anybody is looking for a .223

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  5. #7355
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    Is there a database that says if the out of state driver's license is valid?
    Not yet nationally, but some states share information...as soon as it IS nationwide, a friend of mine with a common name who currently has his driving privileges suspended or revoked (with warrants) in three or four other states all over the place is gonna be SCREWED trying to get them back everywhere at once.

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  6. #7356
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    Re: Guns...

    and another one...Trump blames everyone else around him for not reporting him to the authorities before the shooting happened

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  7. #7357
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    and another one...Trump blames everyone else around him for not reporting him to the authorities before the shooting happened
    He was known to the fbi for a comment he made on yootoob saying essentially “I’m going to be a professional sch00l sh00tr”.
    Aledgedly.

    I’m not trying to rehash this debate. It’s depressing enough on its own.

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  8. #7358
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Indictments are out.

    So, gun nuts, how does it feel to be Russia's puppets?

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  9. #7359
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Indictments are out.

    So, gun nuts, how does it feel to be Russia's puppets?
    Define "gun nut" please, specifically if you can.

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  10. #7360
    Grizzly Fuckin Adams dhuze's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    and another one...Trump blames everyone else around him for not reporting him to the authorities before the shooting happened
    So the FBI investigated the dirtbag and walked away, not the first time, and this is Trump's fault? Maybe, just maybe it IS someone else's fault.
    Honestly, how do you connect this to Trump?

    Trump is the President of the United States, not some imaginary invisible deity to worship who saves your soul, yet lets tragedies such as this to happen.

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    Last edited by dhuze; 02-16-18 at 03:08 PM.
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  11. #7361
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Define "gun nut" please, specifically if you can.
    Anyone that liked/shared/relied upon the social media posts created and distributed by the Russian troll operation intended at sewing discord among the US population by leveraging our love affair with guns.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and they just did it again, yesterday, in response to the school shooting. Again.

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  12. #7362
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Anyone that liked/shared/relied upon the social media posts created and distributed by the Russian troll operation intended at sewing discord among the US population by leveraging our love affair with guns.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and they just did it again, yesterday, in response to the school shooting. Again.
    Should we include the anti-gun people who got all riled up over those posts and fueled the fire from the other side? Seems logical they'd be 'gun nuts' too?

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  13. #7363
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Anyone that liked/shared/relied upon the social media posts created and distributed by the Russian troll operation intended at sewing discord among the US population by leveraging our love affair with guns.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and they just did it again, yesterday, in response to the school shooting. Again.
    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Should we include the anti-gun people who got all riled up over those posts and fueled the fire from the other side? Seems logical they'd be 'gun nuts' too?
    What about me? I did none of the above, but I'm considered a "gun nut".

    I thought there were guns in the United States long before there were dealings with Russia or the internet. Did Russia use telepathy to put thoughts into my head before they could post on the internet?

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  14. #7364
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    Re: Guns...

    This all the end result of what Joe McCarthy was warning about all along?

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  15. #7365
    Used to know a thing or 2 eboos's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Anyone that liked/shared/relied upon the social media posts created and distributed by the Russian troll operation intended at sewing discord among the US population by leveraging our love affair with guns.
    Did you intentionally leave out that they had been stoking both sides, or was it an honest mistake?

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  16. #7366
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    Did you intentionally leave out that they had been stoking both sides, or was it an honest mistake?
    He's still butt hurt Hillary lost to someone as laughable as Trump, so my money is on fanning the flames on purpose

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  17. #7367
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    Re: Guns...

    Since when hasn't social media been used by all sides to sway opinion?

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    Re: Guns...

    $0.02 on this whole never-ending clusterfuck:

    Seems to me that both sides are focusing on the wrong thing. Everyone is making it about access. The anti-gun camp wants to reduce access as much as possible.. and many want outright bans that are straight up fantasy in a country with 88 guns per 100 people. The pro-gun camp, on the other hand wants as close to unrestricted access as possible and seems to believe that an AR is a preferred weapon for hunting or self-defense--which, as a gun owner since age 10, is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.

    The right has a point: limiting access won't do away with shooters so what's the point? So does the left: We've seen proof from around the world that tighter restrictions do not eliminate shootings, but they DO decrease the carnage.

    The never-ending right-wing tropes are not correct. It's not just criminals, terrorists and the mentally ill. Look at this latest shooter: He wasn't a violent criminal, wasn't politically motivated and I'll bet he doesn't turn out to be mentally ill by any accepted standard. The never-ending left-wing tropes are equally flawed: the genie is out of the bottle, with so many guns already out there and a culture that makes firearms and graphic violence the subject of play. Hello, Call of Duty.

    What both sides utterly ignore is the need to properly and FULLY train and educate EVERYONE who has access to a firearm. That doesn't mean basic safety training. It means training in when and how to use force, de-escalation, aftermath, psychological and legal implications, alternatives to use of deadly force, physical effects, victim encounters... the whole thing. When you lay your hand on a gun you're taking people's lives into your hands: yours and everyone within range. How is that grave responsibility NOT held to be desperately, vitally important? How is it that we completely ignore that aspect?

    Right now you can go buy a gun and hey, great, you're armed! The world is safer, right? You and your family are safer, right? Your kids are protected, right? Good guy with a gun and all that, right?

    What bullshit. The class and "training" required for me to get my carry permit was an utter joke and there were some downright scary people in that room, treating it like a game with really cool toys. It taught me the bare basics of how to operate the firearm and that was about it. I'm sure we all know someone who, if they got hold of a gun, would be more likely to shoot themselves in the damn foot than be able to defend themselves, never mind magically become a stone-cold heroic John Wick clone in an active shooter situation. Can you imagine what would happen if, oh, 25% of the people in an active shooter situation were armed and eager to take action? OF COURSE bullets would start flying in every direction. What a mess.

    Bottom line: Instead of obsessing over inanimate objects or chasing phantom bogeymen, turn our attention to the humans who wield these weapons and instill a culture of knowledge, skill and responsibility.

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    Last edited by adouglas; 02-16-18 at 09:37 PM.

  19. #7369
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
    88 guns per 1000 people.
    I think yer off a little with that statistic, fat finger the zero much

    88/hundred I would believe

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  20. #7370
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I think yer off a little with that statistic, fat finger the zero much

    88/hundred I would believe
    Ewps. Thanks. Fixed.

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  21. #7371
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    He's still butt hurt Hillary lost to someone as laughable as Trump, so my money is on fanning the flames on purpose
    Everyone in America should be butthurt that she lost, and not at all because they wanted her to win...because the nation has been played by a foreign adversary.
    We have been proven vulnerable.

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  22. #7372
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Everyone in America should be butthurt that she lost, and not at all because they wanted her to win...because the nation has been played by a foreign adversary.
    We have been proven vulnerable.
    This, exactly.

    It amuses me that despite the Reps constantly saying that Dems can't get over the fact that Hillary lost, the only ones who keep bringing it up are the Reps. It's not about wanting Hillary in the White House. It's about NOT wanting the current occupant to be there.

    Tipping the election (and the dezinformatsiya to come) was and is an overt attack on us, on our way of life, on our institutions, on what actually DOES make America great, by a foreign power. Is that not BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS? This is the stuff that wars are fought over, ferchissakes. Yet all our leadership seems to want to do is look at its collective navel and blame everyone except the actual culprits.

    What would the Patron Saint of the Right Wing and ultimate cold warrior Ronald Reagan think about Russians interfering in the democratic process? WTF. Grow a pair and quit pandering to those skeezeballs.

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  23. #7373
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Everyone in America should be butthurt that she lost, and not at all because they wanted her to win...because the nation has been played by a foreign adversary.
    We have been proven vulnerable.
    I have heard this claim about Russian influence now for over a year, yet I have not met anyone whose vote was influenced by the Russians

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  24. #7374
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I have heard this claim about Russian influence now for over a year, yet I have not met anyone whose vote was influenced by the Russians
    do you believe in unicorns too?
    you need to come out from under your rock.

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  25. #7375
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I have heard this claim about Russian influence now for over a year, yet I have not met anyone whose vote was influenced by the Russians
    Yikes,

    Bad sampling, cognitive bias, failure to understand that no one knew they were being influenced by the Russians...

    Go to the swing states that were targeted, properly sample swing voters about the impact of social media, trace the sources of the social media back to the Russians, there the evidence of influence or attempting to influence.

    The idea that Trump might still be President if the Russians had ignored us is irrelevant. There is more and more evidence everyday that an adversarial foreign power acted to attempt to influence an American election in favor of a candidate that they believed would be friendlier or more pliable to their agenda.

    American was attacked by Russia in a very modern way. Whether you believe the attack changed the outcome of the election does not determine whether the attacks happened.

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