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Guns...

  1. #7376
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...


    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post

    The idea that Trump might still be President if the Russians had ignored us is irrelevant. There is more and more evidence everyday that an adversarial foreign power acted to attempt to influence an American election in favor of a candidate that they believed would be friendlier or more pliable to their agenda.

    .
    Sad, but how very American of them to meddle with a foreign government.

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  2. #7377
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Sad, but how very American of them to meddle with a foreign government.
    So you’re ok with it?

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  3. #7378
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    So you’re ok with it?
    I did not say that. It sucks that the shoe is on the other foot.

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  4. #7379
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    I did not say that. It sucks that the shoe is on the other foot.
    Indeed.
    Hopefully we learn our lesson.

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  5. #7380
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Should we include the anti-gun people who got all riled up over those posts and fueled the fire from the other side? Seems logical they'd be 'gun nuts' too?
    Yes, since the Russians fanned the fire on both sides. Did you read the indictment?

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  6. #7381
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    Did you intentionally leave out that they had been stoking both sides, or was it an honest mistake?
    Well thatís one way to project you opinion onto my statement.

    I never said what side they were playing because they played both sides. If we werenít a nation obsessed with firearms, they wouldnít of had that hand to play.

    They also did it with Islamists and race relations. Going to assume which side of those issues Iím promoting there too?

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  7. #7382
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Adversarial foreign powers benefit from internal chaos, divisiveness and class strife in America and the impact it has on how the world views the US. When adversaries cannot strengthen their standing on the world stage on the merits of their own system of governance, they seek to weaken their more powerful adversaries.

    I do not fault the Russians for trying, I fault dumbass Americans who buy into the divisiveness, only accept information that confirms their biases and fail to check sources and verify information. The Russians are playing on our mental laziness and complacency.

    A lazy thinking populace can be manipulated to elect poor candidates.

    Eternal vigilance being the price of liberty, the need for vigilance in todayís world is equal parts military and information vigilance and the information side is every citizenís responsibility.

    We are constantly being manipulated by special interest groups on all sides of every issue and it is up to each and every citizen to rise above the spin, educate themselves objectively and thoughtfully, listen carefully to opposing viewpoints and try to form serious and reasoned judgments about the issues of the day.

    We all have the choice to understand our world or allow special interests to drag us around by the hook they set in our collective mouths.

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    Last edited by SteveM; Yesterday at 11:51 AM.

  8. #7383
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I have heard this claim about Russian influence now for over a year, yet I have not met anyone whose vote was influenced by the Russians
    I think you may be unclear on how this whole thing works. They don't exactly put a HEY, THIS INFLAMMATORY BIT OF NEWS WAS POSTED BY RUSSIAN HACKERS label on what you see and hear.

    How do you KNOW you and those you've met weren't influenced by the Russians? Know for absolute sure? You don't.

    Did you read and buy into any stories from "alternative" news sites? Red flag.

    Did you run across some political post shared by someone online that made you stop and take notice? Red flag.

    The fact is that wou were influenced by what you saw in the media that you choose to consume. We all were, and are, every day. Such is the nature of the echo chamber. You have no way of telling, aside from your level of trust in the source, whether those stories are in fact true.

    The best you can do is try to verify from other sources to build consensus.

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  9. #7384
    Senior Member loki32687's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Anyone have any experience with the C93?

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  10. #7385
    Lifer G21forme's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
    $0.02 on this whole never-ending clusterfuck:

    Seems to me that both sides are focusing on the wrong thing. Everyone is making it about access. The anti-gun camp wants to reduce access as much as possible.. and many want outright bans that are straight up fantasy in a country with 88 guns per 100 people. The pro-gun camp, on the other hand wants as close to unrestricted access as possible and seems to believe that an AR is a preferred weapon for hunting or self-defense--which, as a gun owner since age 10, is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.

    The right has a point: limiting access won't do away with shooters so what's the point? So does the left: We've seen proof from around the world that tighter restrictions do not eliminate shootings, but they DO decrease the carnage.

    The never-ending right-wing tropes are not correct. It's not just criminals, terrorists and the mentally ill. Look at this latest shooter: He wasn't a violent criminal, wasn't politically motivated and I'll bet he doesn't turn out to be mentally ill by any accepted standard. The never-ending left-wing tropes are equally flawed: the genie is out of the bottle, with so many guns already out there and a culture that makes firearms and graphic violence the subject of play. Hello, Call of Duty.

    What both sides utterly ignore is the need to properly and FULLY train and educate EVERYONE who has access to a firearm. That doesn't mean basic safety training. It means training in when and how to use force, de-escalation, aftermath, psychological and legal implications, alternatives to use of deadly force, physical effects, victim encounters... the whole thing. When you lay your hand on a gun you're taking people's lives into your hands: yours and everyone within range. How is that grave responsibility NOT held to be desperately, vitally important? How is it that we completely ignore that aspect?

    Right now you can go buy a gun and hey, great, you're armed! The world is safer, right? You and your family are safer, right? Your kids are protected, right? Good guy with a gun and all that, right?

    What bullshit. The class and "training" required for me to get my carry permit was an utter joke and there were some downright scary people in that room, treating it like a game with really cool toys. It taught me the bare basics of how to operate the firearm and that was about it. I'm sure we all know someone who, if they got hold of a gun, would be more likely to shoot themselves in the damn foot than be able to defend themselves, never mind magically become a stone-cold heroic John Wick clone in an active shooter situation. Can you imagine what would happen if, oh, 25% of the people in an active shooter situation were armed and eager to take action? OF COURSE bullets would start flying in every direction. What a mess.

    Bottom line: Instead of obsessing over inanimate objects or chasing phantom bogeymen, turn our attention to the humans who wield these weapons and instill a culture of knowledge, skill and responsibility.
    The funny thing is people call "trained" Leo's to protect them 15 minutes away. You think your class was a joke, check le qualifications.

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  11. #7386
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    that 88 gun per 100 is rather deceiving, it almost implies 88 people out of 100 have guns, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

    If I am the average gun owner with 6 guns, that would mean only 15 people out of 100 have guns

    most gun owners own multiple guns, my GF recently bought a 10-22, off the top of my head, I can't think of any one else that only owns 1. And that won't be for long, she is looking at handguns

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    RandyO
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  12. #7387
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    88 per hundred people?

    Pfft those are rookie numbers. More like 880 per hundred people, where I live. Where’d they take that count, in Cambridge during a Hillary rally?

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  13. #7388
    Lifer Rosco61's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    The funny thing is people call "trained" Leo's to protect them 15 minutes away. You think your class was a joke, check le qualifications.
    I have taken the exact same class and qualification 8 hour course they take. The retired LEO and safety officer says most Cops can't shoot straight anyway and that the average enthusiast shoots thousands more rounds per year than a typical Officer.
    Buying police weapons is also a good deal as they have wear from their holsters but are brand new internally as they are almost never fired.

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