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Guns...

  1. #76
    Just Registered Mondo's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...


    Anyone think that this lady was guilty of "straw purchasing"?

    AKA her son was not old enough to purchase pistols or a high capacity rifle, so she purchased them herself for him to use.

    I'm all for people with mental disorders to not be allowed to purchase firearms, but who is to say they won't find another way to kill someone?

    BTW, one would think all these news agencies would get someone in there who knows what they are talking about with firearms. They don't know jack shot about anything they put up on the screen, yet talk about it like they are experts, drives me nuts. Last time I checked all guns are high power...

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget
    Quote Originally Posted by sveesix View Post
    And no one dares to challenge a woman's right to choose, although the end result is the death of thousands of innocent unborn children. When that right is challenged, however, it is deemed as infringing upon rights.

    Funny how the whole situation changes when your personal rights are infringed upon.
    Not to stray to far from the subject but the term "unborn children" has no scientific basis and I choose to be offended by the use of the term.
    It suggests that there is no limit to what could be considered an unborn child, even before conception (i.e. the unfertilized egg, the sperm, even future generations).
    It is a term used by religions to oppress people and keep them producing followers.

    The correct scientific term is fetus.
    In the first trimester this fetus has no brain.
    It is the biological equivalent of a bowl of yogurt.
    Your dog has a higher level of awareness.
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  3. #78
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    Re: Guns...

    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

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  4. #79
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    They are trying to get people to associate semi automatic guns with full auto. If you look I'm the guns thread it's working.
    This from the sympathy thread...trying to keep this stuff here Greg!!!

    I don't see anything in this thread that suggests that people don't understand the difference...your ginger counterpart notwithstanding!

    I really don't see any practical difference in the damage that can be caused by either type. Indeed, I kind of suspect that a fully automatic weapon on full automatic is only effective at hitting the desired target if it's in the hands of a very experienced and well trained user. That's just a sort of vague hunch based on how an automatic weapon 'rises' when on full auto...

    I think the PROGUN folks are using the Automatic weapon debate as a red herring to distract us from the real issues...

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  5. #80
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    Re: Guns...

    My bad Dave

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  6. #81
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    Re: Guns...

    The real issue is that mental health services in this country are lackfuckingluster at best. We just medicate people without dealing with what the underlying causes are. Know what happens after that? They go off of their meds, shocking right?

    I lasted 9 months in the mental health field. No. Fucking. Thank you.

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  7. #82
    Posting Freak joeswamp's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Personally, I think firearms ownership really needs to be taken seriously in this country. More than one mass shooting per month is too many. People should be able to own guns, but I think it should be akin to having a pilots license. Modern gun ownership is a huge responsibility and people just aren't taking this responsibility seriously enough.

    The more I think about it, the more I like Chris Rock's idea that bullets should be taxed at a ridiculous level. You could make bullets at a range cost the normal price, but any bullets you legally take home would cost like $500 a piece. You should never have to use a gun at home so an investment of a few grand is reasonable for home security, but a lot less bullets would fly around ghettos if each shooting spree cost 50 grand. Of course there would be a huge black market, but the price of bullets from any source would still be sky high.

    It should be recognized that any gun laws at the state or city level are totally worthless and have no effect. I grew up in Chicago, which had really strict gun laws but there were guns on every corner, brought in from southern states with no gun laws. So the statement "if you criminalize guns, only criminals will have guns" is especially true if the criminalization occurs at the state level. The only way to get the guns out of bad people's hands is to actually make it difficult to disobey the law.

    Finally, it's true that more deaths come from automobiles than guns, although guns are a very close second and are even first in some age and gender groups. The difference is that automobiles provide an enormous economic benefit, and this is simply not true of guns. Our society couldn't function without transportation, but lots of modern countries (actually most) do just fine without high gun ownership. So the frustrating thing about these monthly massacres is not the number of people killed, it's the fact that these killings really didn't have to happen at all.

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  8. #83
    The NEW hot Setup Manny's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Impulse + access = bad. People are lazy and they give up easily. If this guy had to find some black market way to buy guns Im guessing he never kills those kids.

    Say what you want but nobody can convince me that there is any need for any automatic or semi automatic weapon.

    You want to hunt, great, use a bow and that actually adds some skill.

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  9. #84
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    Re: Guns...

    Wow at the both of you, that's all the keystrokes I'm going to waste.

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  10. #85
    Senior Member smokinjoe's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Did this guy in CT use an automatic weapon? I dont thing so. Whats the option, only sell muzzle-loading muskets?

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  11. #86
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    Re: Guns...

    But but but... there was a semi automatic rifle in his car that he didn't use! What if he DID????

    A majority of gun crimes are committed with .380s, .22s, .25s and .9s. Those are precisely the types of weapons you're saying SHOULD be allowed.

    Guns...-pistols_2000-jpg
    Top 10 Weapons Used in Gun Crime

    Though it is one of the most popular rifles sold to civilians, the AR-15 is rarely used in crimes, presumably because it’s not readily concealed. The most recent FBI figures show just 358 of the 8,775 murders by firearm in 2010 involved rifles of any type. By comparison, 745 people were beaten to death with only hands that year, but no one has called for outlawing fists.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ing-gun-myths/

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    Last edited by ThisBitch; 12-15-12 at 06:29 PM.
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  12. #87
    Posting Freak joeswamp's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by smokinjoe View Post
    Did this guy in CT use an automatic weapon? I dont thing so. Whats the option, only sell muzzle-loading muskets?
    That would have helped a lot. Actually one of the things that helped this guy was that he had very high capacity clips. When a friend of mine from college was gunned down in a mass shooting in the 90s, only about a half dozen other people were killed because the assault weapons ban was in effect and the guy only had normal clips. By the time people realized what was happening, they were able to tackle the shooter as he tried to reload.

    I think the guy from CT got off like a hundred shots.

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  13. #88
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    But but but... there was a semi automatic rifle in his car that he didn't use! What if he DID????

    A majority of gun crimes are committed with .385s, .22s, .25s and .9s. Those are precisely the types of weapons you're saying SHOULD be allowed.
    I don't know anything about guns - the names, numbers, sizes types, nothing. Honestly I wouldn't care if they made it almost impossible to get any type.

    I hate guns. I always have. After this I hate them more.

    I think the most common use for a gun is killing or injuring a person. Is there another use of a gun I am not aware of? IMO Regular everyday suburban mothers shouldn't have a stock of guns in their homes.

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  14. #89
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    That would have helped a lot. Actually one of the things that helped this guy was that he had very high capacity clips. When a friend of mine from college was gunned down in a mass shooting in the 90s, only about a half dozen other people were killed because the assault weapons ban was in effect and the guy only had normal clips. By the time people realized what was happening, they were able to tackle the shooter as he tried to reload.

    I think the guy from CT got off like a hundred shots.
    Argh fuck it, the standard magazine for an ak/ar is 30, G17 17, uzi 30 etc etc. The term high cap mag was invented to fool the sheep into thinking ten rounders are the norm. Besides do you want to see how fast I can change mags in my guns? Mag capacity means dick and you don't even know what a clip is. I'm sorry but if you know nothing about firearms or the laws governing ownership/carry you have no business in this thread or even opening your mouth about it. The ignorance in this thread is absolutely mind boggling.

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  15. #90
    Just Registered ThisBitch's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    I don't know anything about guns - the names, numbers, sizes types, nothing. Honestly I wouldn't care if they made it almost impossible to get any type.

    I hate guns. I always have. After this I hate them more.

    I think the most common use for a gun is killing or injuring a person. Is there another use of a gun I am not aware of? IMO Regular everyday suburban mothers shouldn't have a stock of guns in their homes.
    As I've said many times, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to allow the people to protect themselves from their government. Don't know how else to explain it.

    I also agree that it's a Pandora's Box that cannot be closed. There is no way to get guns away from criminals, so passing laws regarding guns would only impact those who abide by laws. Do you want to live in a world where the only people that have guns are the government, police and criminals?

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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch
    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    I don't know anything about guns - the names, numbers, sizes types, nothing. Honestly I wouldn't care if they made it almost impossible to get any type.

    I hate guns. I always have. After this I hate them more.

    I think the most common use for a gun is killing or injuring a person. Is there another use of a gun I am not aware of? IMO Regular everyday suburban mothers shouldn't have a stock of guns in their homes.
    As I've said many times, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to allow the people to protect themselves from their government. Don't know how else to explain it.

    I also agree that it's a Pandora's Box that cannot be closed. There is no way to get guns away from criminals, so passing laws regarding guns would only impact those who abide by laws. Do you want to live in a world where the only people that have guns are the government, police and criminals?
    The only thing I would add here is that I don't believe these mentally ill folks who shoot up schools are the types to go underground and seek out guns from the hood. I may be wrong of course.

    You can't get away from the fact that these type of mass killings don't happen in countries with draconian gun laws.

    Although gun crime in the UK is on the rise and obtaining a permit is incredibly hard over there, I believe the stuff sentences for gun crime is actually keeping te level of INNOCENT victims down. Underworld illegal gun owners tend to shoot other criminals, not 5-year-olds.

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  17. #92
    The NEW hot Setup Manny's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    As I've said many times, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to allow the people to protect themselves from their government. Don't know how else to explain it.

    I also agree that it's a Pandora's Box that cannot be closed. There is no way to get guns away from criminals, so passing laws regarding guns would only impact those who abide by laws. Do you want to live in a world where the only people that have guns are the government, police and criminals?
    I understand the Second amendment just fine. But I also believe that the world changes and laws need to change with it. War doesn't mean what it used to - against our own government or against a neighboring country. What that means practically for gun regulation or control I don't know. Im not smart enough to have an answer. All I know is the current arrangement is not working. Including the Alabama thing today that is 3 public random shooting sprees in less than a week.

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  18. #93
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    Re: Guns...

    This is actually a couple years old...

    From the New Hampshire Union Leader:

    MANCHESTER – Bullets flew outside the Uptown Tavern early yesterday when a peeved patron began shooting at a doorman after being thrown out of the club. The shooter himself was shot twice by an armed customer who rushed to the bouncer's defense, a club owner and police said.

    The shooter had missed doorman Chad Ryan after firing about four shots at him in the 1301 Elm St. club's parking lot when the alleged gunman was himself hit twice by the unidentified patron who returned fire about 12:45 a.m., said club co-owner Dave Somers.

    The wounded suspect, identified by police as Eliezer Encarnacion, 26, and his companion -- both of whom were thrown out of the club moments earlier -- ran from the parking lot up Myrtle Street with an angry group of club patrons in pursuit.

    Encarnacion was about six to eight feet from Ryan when he fired the first shot, hitting the door frame, Willard said. When the second shot rang out, a male customer inside the bar realized what was happening and intervened, he continued.

    "He feels the bouncer's life is in danger and he produces his own firearm and proceeds to return fire," said [Det. Lt. Nick] Willard, who credited the patron with saving the doorman and possibly even Brown from being shot.

    Police withheld the patron's name while they continue their investigation, which will include an inquiry into whether his use of deadly force was justified.

    Club employees were not aware the customer -- described as a regular patron -- was carrying a concealed weapon, Somers said.

    "I'm not okaying it. But if he didn't, probably my doorman would be dead," Somers said.

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  19. #94
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    That said, I STILL dont understand why anyone has a valid reason why they need assault rifles or machine guns of any sort. Handguns for personal protection? Sure, rifles for hunting? Not for me, but I understand. But assault rifles and machine guns? Just to make themselves feel badass. Thats all. I wouldnt care if they were outlawed.
    Because people hunt with assault rifles. Although I'm not a fan of the term.

    People seem to associate assault rifles as full auto weapons, and they're not. Full auto weapons are extremely hard to get a hold of legally, and the costs prevent it from happening for most. Be it an AR15, Bushmaster, M&P15, NONE of these are full auto. They are semi auto, meaning you must pull the trigger once for ever round fired, just like a handgun. There is no difference between an AR, and other semi auto hunting rifles, other than the fact that one looks "scary", while the other may have a "traditional" look (i.e wooden stock/grip).

    I've only shot a full auto twice, and it was a Vietnam era M16 that a friend of mine owns. He's a federally licensed dealer, and has a lot of unique weapons. That M16 alone was $24,000 to buy, and you can't just go up and buy one because you have a basic license. It's very difficult, even for a law abiding citizen, to be able to purchase one.

    Knee jerk legislation is what some people appear to want, and that's a VERY dangerous thing. Again, people are afraid, angry and confused. They have no control over this, and other situations, but they want control. To get control, they demand their community, and national leaders do something about the issues, FAST, without properly thinking it through.

    Here's my example that I get to live almost every day. The TSA.

    When I'm working there are a few airports that require myself and my passengers to go through security. Most private terminals don't require security, so long as you have a badge. Even if I'm not with a passenger, I'm still required at these airports to have my bag xrayed, and I have to go through a metal detector. There is absolutely no reason for this, however it was a knee jerk reaction after 9-11 to put security everywhere they could. I've questioned the security guards at multiple airports (in a friendly manner), why I'm being subjected to a search. Their answers are almost always "It's just the way it is sir, we need to ensure that there's nothing dangerous in your bag, or in your passengers bags". Now think about it. I'm going to an airplane that I'll be in control of, and that my passengers own. It's the equivalent of you being screened prior to going outside and driving your car. Nobody can ever give me an answer of how it helps keep people safe, they just always seem to say "It's just the way it is". Well IMO, that is not an answer to a problem.

    The point of all this, is that knee jerk legislation has done a lot of harm in the past, and has the potential for doing even more now, and in the future. I'm not against discussing gun laws, and possibly changing certain rules on how people get them. I'm still amazed at how easy it is to purchase a gun here in NH. Walk in, walk out. I think that's a bit scary, as I've met people who are gun owners in this state who really shouldn't be allowed near a gun. We shouldn't be looking for more thoughtless legislation from our leaders though. We need to figure out what the real problem is, and tackle it. Not put up another smoke and mirror show that pretends to offer security, while it doesn't. If we actually ban assault rifles, ban handguns, and then another mass killing occurs, what do we do then?

    The other thing I'm not a fan of, is comparing us with other nations. We have over 300 million people in this country, with a very diverse population. It's hard to compare us, with a nation that only has 5% of our total population when it comes to violence.

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  20. #95
    Senior Member Dannyf's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Joe I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just have zero firearms knowledge, but the crap your spewing out is exactly the problem we have in this country right now.

    I was actually going to take the time to type out a very long response but I have decided it's in my better interest not to, as doing so would be like getting into an argument with a fire hydrant.

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  21. #96
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    Do you want to live in a world where the only people that have guns are the government, police and criminals?
    For the sake of playing devils advocate: a lot of people in industrialized nations do, and they don't have homicides and mass shootings to the level we do.

    I agree with gun ownership and not having it restricted in the manner in which it is, but you can not call people crazy for looking at how things happen else where and saying it could be beneficial here.

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  22. #97
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    Re: Guns...

    Nerve gas, cyanide, box cutters, fertilizer, commercial passenger jets: all instruments used for mass murder...

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  23. #98
    The NEW hot Setup Manny's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Just to get a bit off topic here for a minute think about what life will be like after a couple of these shooting take place in the same area. Imagine living in fear everyday that some fucked up mental case, and soon enough non-mental case is going to walk into the post office or library or cafe and start shooting.

    I lived in Jerusalem in 95-96 when there was a massive rise in bus and cafe bombings. You couldn't get on a bus or enter a cafe or store without being searched first and there weren't many more attacks than have been here. There is a tipping point when you begin to live in fear of your surroundings. This country is huge so these attacks are spread out and you don't think about it much the next day or week, and certainly you don't let it change your daily life. But if there are 2 or 3 a week or 2 or 3 in the same city then all of a sudden we are living in fear, checking the person sitting next to us in the movies, or walking into a cafe or onto a bus next to you. How many parents are going to think twice before putting their kids on a bus to school if another shooting like this takes place.

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    Last edited by Manny; 12-15-12 at 07:00 PM.
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  24. #99
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    For the sake of playing devils advocate: a lot of people in industrialized nations do, and they don't have homicides and mass shootings to the level we do.

    I agree with gun ownership and not having it restricted in the manner in which it is, but you can not call people crazy for looking at how things happen else where and saying it could be beneficial here.
    Yes some countries have stricter gun laws and less gun crime just like some states have strict gun laws and a high rate of gun crimes. I thought you hated those arguments and I agree they don't mean much.

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  25. #100
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Just to get a bit off topic here for a minute think about what life will be like after a couple of these shooting take place in the same area. Imagine living in fear everyday that some fucked up mental case, and soon enough non-mental case is going to walk into the post office or library or cafe and start shooting.

    I lived in Jerusalem in 95-96 when there was a massive rise in bus and cafe bombings. You couldn't get on a bus or enter a cafe or store without being searched first and there weren't many more attacks than have been here. There is a tipping point when you being to live in fear of your surroundings. This country is huge so these attacks are spread out and you don't think about it much the next day or week, and certainly you don't let it change your daily life. But if there are 2 or 3 a week or 2 or 3 in the same city then all of a sudden we are living in fear, checking the person sitting next to us in the movies, or walking into a cafe or onto a bus next to you. How many parents are going to think twice before putting there kids on a bus to school if another shooting like this takes place.
    Did Jerusalem outlaw bombs? If so did the number of bombings go down?

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