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Guns...

  1. #101
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...


    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Just to get a bit off topic here for a minute think about what life will be like after a couple of these shooting take place in the same area. Imagine living in fear everyday that some fucked up mental case, and soon enough non-mental case is going to walk into the post office or library or cafe and start shooting.

    I lived in Jerusalem in 95-96 when there was a massive rise in bus and cafe bombings. You couldn't get on a bus or enter a cafe or store without being searched first and there weren't many more attacks than have been here. There is a tipping point when you being to live in fear of your surroundings. This country is huge so these attacks are spread out and you don't think about it much the next day or week, and certainly you don't let it change your daily life. But if there are 2 or 3 a week or 2 or 3 in the same city then all of a sudden we are living in fear, checking the person sitting next to us in the movies, or walking into a cafe or onto a bus next to you. How many parents are going to think twice before putting there kids on a bus to school if another shooting like this takes place.
    I ALWAYS check everybody out and I'm constantly 'scanning' crowds no matter where I am. I'm more so vigilant when I'm with my family. Fear? Nope, just being aware and planning out my next move if needed...

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  2. #102
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Nerve gas, cyanide, box cutters, fertilizer, commercial passenger jets: all instruments used for mass murder...
    Compared to the rates of gun violence they are all benign.

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  3. #103
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Compared to the rates of gun violence they are all benign.
    Really? I'm not even gonna begin...

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  4. #104
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    Yes some countries have stricter gun laws and less gun crime just like some states have strict gun laws and a high rate of gun crimes. I thought you hated those arguments and I agree they don't mean much.
    When comparing states, yes. It is a week argument because there exists examples on both sides meaning there are more important factors. I do not think they mean much at all. I think population density and poverty rate are more telling factors because states with less strict laws allow guns to move freely negating the laws of the more strict state.

    When looking across countries and where we fall in terms of not only mass shootings and gun homicide but also just regular homicide we are very far behind.

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  5. #105
    The NEW hot Setup Manny's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyf View Post
    Did Jerusalem outlaw bombs? If so did the number of bombings go down?
    Are you joking or serious? I can't tell and I've been around here long enough not to assume.

    There was a massive and dramatic change in the level of security everywhere to avoid everything from bombings to shootings. Every single bus stop had military personnel stationed there on a rotating basis many with dogs. I remember bringing them home made cookies and cakes. And it helped a lot. But would you want to live like that.

    The situation in CT could have been avoided by having a military style security guard with a metal detector at the entrance to the school with no way in to the building besides that front door. Now imagine that in every public place you go. Those were some changes made in Israel at that time.

    Do you want our kids to live like that? Do you want to live like that? 3 shootings this week alone. Its a big country, but thats a lot.

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  6. #106
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    Re: Guns...

    Once again we have heard form our


    Useless self promoting politicians who needs more power
    The Useless State Troopers who will claim to need a bigger budget
    The extra useless crime scene investigators proving the dead purp is there
    The lawyers bemoaning the dead purp and loss of decades of high fees

    Will once again guarantee the next crazy a free fire zone

    National Volunteer Deputy Marshalls

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  7. #107
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Really? I'm not even gonna begin...
    Take the total number of people killed with your list throughout human history and it may total 1 month of gun violence in the US.

    Like I've said multiple times, I believe in private gun ownership up to full auto and the like, but to ignore our problem and the solutions other countries have used effectively is silly.

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  8. #108
    Senior Member Dannyf's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Are you joking or serious? I can't tell and I've been around here long enough not to assume.

    There was a massive and dramatic change in the level of security everywhere to avoid everything from bombings to shootings. Every single bus stop had military personnel stationed there on a rotating basis many with dogs. I remember bringing them home made cookies and cakes. And it helped a lot. But would you want to live like that.

    The situation in CT could have been avoided by having a military style security guard with a metal detector at the entrance to the school with no way in to the building besides that front door. Now imagine that in every public place you go. Those were some changes made in Israel at that time.

    Do you want our kids to live like that? Do you want to live like that? 3 shootings this week alone. Its a big country, but thats a lot.
    It was sarcasm, the point I was making is that people do evil things there is no way around that.
    We as Americans understand or should understand that freedom comes with a price. The atrocities that happen are truly terrible and I wish that there was a way to stop them or limit them especially without removing more of our freedoms but that sad truth is that there is no way to do that. Sick people do sick things, if it wasn't a gun it would be a knife, if not a knife a bat/club, if not a bat or club; rocks, if not rocks then bare fists.
    Removing the freedoms and rights of others because of the acts of others is not the solution.

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  9. #109
    Senior Member Dannyf's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Take the total number of people killed with your list throughout human history and it may total 1 month of gun violence in the US.

    Like I've said multiple times, I believe in private gun ownership up to full auto and the like, but to ignore our problem and the solutions other countries have used effectively is silly.
    How many people exactly do you think die a month from gun violence? lol I think if you did some research you would be surprised. Ever heard of the Holocaust?

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  10. #110
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    Re: Guns...

    Or nuclear weapons? He got you on the last line Alex, way off.

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  11. #111
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    Did you hear about the time that guy broke into a school and shot a bunch of kids with an airplane?

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  12. #112
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by snwbrdr435 View Post
    How about we start enforcing laws already on the books, like reporting mental illness.......
    Exactly!!! Take away all of the guns, an insane person will just use a bomb. Take away all of the the bombs and an insane person will just use a knife.

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  13. #113
    The NEW hot Setup Manny's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyf View Post
    It was sarcasm, the point I was making is that people do evil things there is no way around that.
    We as Americans understand or should understand that freedom comes with a price. The atrocities that happen are truly terrible and I wish that there was a way to stop them or limit them especially without removing more of our freedoms but that sad truth is that there is no way to do that. Sick people do sick things, if it wasn't a gun it would be a knife, if not a knife a bat/club, if not a bat or club; rocks, if not rocks then bare fists.
    Removing the freedoms and rights of others because of the acts of others is not the solution.
    I fully and completely disagree.

    Killing someone with a gun is easy, particularly if you can get them from your mothers cabinet. Killing someone with a gun is easy because you can stand back behind a mask and shield yourself form the violence by being semi-removed from it.

    Killing someone with rocks or bare hands or a knife or anything similar requires much much more effort and a totally different level of commitment to the crime because of the physical force and closeness involved. Yes there will always be crazies but there is a pattern here. When was the last time there was a mass murder by someone swinging a rock or a bat or anything else? People choose guns because they are effective and easy. Guns my not be "the problem" but they are most certainly part of it.

    As I said in my first post, IMPULSE plus ACCESS = major problems.

    Removing certain freedoms - either by introducing another way to limit guns or by changing security measures or by some other means to control the problem we have is probably exactly the answer.

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  14. #114
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Killing a group of kids at a bus stop is easier, faster and more repeatable with a SUV with a brush guard than using a gun.

    Only issue, the media wouldn't jump all over it.

    Point being, this is an issue about mass killings by nutty people, not guns.

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  15. #115
    Just Registered ThisBitch's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Thank you!

    I would say these killings speak significantly more to our inability to provide basic health services to people and a culture that produces socially awkward boys incapable of functioning outside their bedroom on a computer.



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  16. #116
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyf View Post
    How many people exactly do you think die a month from gun violence? lol I think if you did some research you would be surprised. Ever heard of the Holocaust?
    Quote Originally Posted by G21forme View Post
    Or nuclear weapons? He got you on the last line Alex, way off.
    Sorry, didn't see cyanide, I thought he was just making a connection to US based terrorist acts. It's called hyperbole. Either way, the point I was trying to make is valid because a: the discussion is about guns not anything else, b: when you can use a gun like those other objects maybe a comparison is in order, c: the US has a problem with violence and more specifically gun violence. The more we try to ignore this problem cause we like guns the more things will stay the same. Trying to compare guns to other objects serves to muddle the argument instead of admitting there's a problem and moving on. Silly comparisons are just that.

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  17. #117
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    Re: Guns...

    Duh, I was thinking globally anyway ginger fail.

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  18. #118
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Compared to the rates of gun violence they are all benign.

    How about drunk driving and distracted driving? Over 10,000 drunk driving deaths/yr and over 5,000 distracted texting deaths per year. Why is that a non-issue to people? Like I said in the other thread, why isn't there demand for stricter driver training?

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  19. #119
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    Re: Guns...

    There is from me.
    Quote Originally Posted by AVI8_636 View Post
    How about drunk driving and distracted driving? Over 10,000 drunk driving deaths/yr and over 5,000 distracted texting deaths per year. Why is that a non-issue to people? Like I said in the other thread, why isn't there demand for stricter driver training?

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  20. #120
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    Re: Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
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    Did you hear about the time that guy broke into a school and shot a bunch of kids with an airplane?
    You're fuckin' kidding, right? Please say you are...

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  21. #121
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    Wirelessly posted

    Quote Originally Posted by AVI8_636
    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Compared to the rates of gun violence they are all benign.

    How about drunk driving and distracted driving? Over 10,000 drunk driving deaths/yr and over 5,000 distracted texting deaths per year. Why is that a non-issue to people? Like I said in the other thread, why isn't there demand for stricter driver training?
    Deliberate murder is now comparable to an RTA?




    Ok.

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  22. #122
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    Actually, I'm done...

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  23. #123
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    Re: Guns...

    I dunno man, I just see that there's a problem. The solution isn't no guns or no gun regulation, its somewhere in the middle and I just wish the debate could be honest.

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  24. #124
    Senior Member AVI8_636's Avatar
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    Re: Guns...

    People are so afraid of guns, but not other things that are truly a realistic threat every day. The odds of a random citizen getting killed by a gun is fairly low. The odds of getting killed by a drunk or distracted driver are much higher. I've had numerous near collisions with people who were clearly distracted, and once nearly T-boned by someone clearly intoxicated, yet I've never been at gun point.

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  25. #125
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    Re: Guns...

    Good point Kieth and not for nothing how many gun deaths are scum bags that probably deserved it anyway?

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