Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Page 10 of 20 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516171819 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 250 of 495

Give up Your Guns?

  1. #226
    xxaarraa
    Guest

    Re: Give up Your Guns?


    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    You stop that right now. It is not fitting into the professors lecture we're getting. There must be something wrong with you to be so educated and still clinging to your guns.
    Haha that's actually funny Give up Your Guns?

    I've been called a lot of things on NESR but professor isn't one of them. Shit, I'll take it.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  2. #227
    Where is my fast? GixerJockey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Meriden, Ct
    Age
    46
    Posts
    7,979

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    Don't forget that you 100% always have a look on your face like you just fucked your cousin.

    Hold on one cotton pickin minute! A guy with an accent like yours is automatically not allowed to make any cousin-fucking jokes.


    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Does that mean that statistically speaking you should be put on a watch list?
    Probably. And I'm likely on them anyway. In 2013, at the "height" of my working, part time, in a busy gun store, we (owner's son and I) discovered that I did almost $40,000 worth of firearm purchases. (was doing a lot of buying, trading, and private selling back then. I didn't add $40k worth of guns to my collection, but that's what I spent through the store)

    If that, plus having to register 500+ hi-cap mags, and 20 or so firearms that were newly deemed to be "assault weapons", following the Sandy Hook school shootings, didn't land me on multiple watch lists... then watch lists are total bullshit.


    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    is she hot ?
    Well, he's a guy, so...

    (she sounds hideous)

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  3. #228
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,413

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    Every one will jump on me but.....

    We used to indoctrinate children in church every Sunday.
    A vengeful God >>>

    See everything you do
    Knows what evil is in your heart
    Will benefit the good and punish the wicked
    If you live a good life avoiding great sins (murder in this case) then you can go live forever in Heaven less eternal torture in hell

    Protestants believed your deal with the almighty was personal, Catholics that a priest can absolve you (shakey jelly morality)

    This simple societal tool went a long way in controlling behavior for the masses

    Additionally EVERYONE knew the character of most people and would shun you if you were not a stand up person. The clubs and churches were the internet of the day
    and if you were caught doing something the memories were long
    Assuming your point is that everything was better before - it wasn't. And the same organization you're saying helped enforce moral character is the one who concealed a global child molestation problem. There are many moral failures that have occurred in the name of god, or by delusional hypocrites pretending they are moral.

    I'm pretty sure a reasonably sane person (I guess as sane as one can be) who goes on a shooting spree knows what that will do to their moral standing in the community.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    nedirtriders.com

  4. #229
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Chichester, NH
    Posts
    4,400

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    jasnmar, I have read freakonomics as well and that's a pretty weak counter, and a common one. You typically don't go that route, so I am surprised. Are you implying that every correlation is to be dismissed because of the few random correlations you cited?

    I am genuinely confused. Are you guys disputing the sources that show clearly that as education levels rise, gun ownership drops? Or Are you guys just trolling me because you don't like what that implies?

    I'm not trying to insult or condescend, but stats are stats. Higher education goes counter to gun ownership. It's just what it is. Particularly among white people it seems.
    No disputing sources.
    No disputing correlation.
    Stats are indeed stats. I'm in no way arguing them.

    I haven't read freakonomics.
    I have taken some statistics classes.
    I did have a person with a doctorate in statistics report to me for about 4 years who consistently called my out when I implied that if we address a correlative attribute that wouldn't necessarily address the problem that we were trying to address. It might. Sometimes it's all you have, but there wasn't a guarantee.
    If there's correlation there a 3 possiblities for how it works
    A causes B
    B causes A
    C causes both A and B

    If you want to prove causation then you need to do an experiment to confirm causation. Have a theory. Test the theory. You also have to make absolutely sure as you test the theory that there isn't another factor changing that is causing A to covary with B.

    According to the Federal Reserve there is correlation between level of education and level of education debt. FRB: Education Debt and Student Loans, Report on the Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households in 2015
    If there is correlation between education level and gun ownership AND there is correlation between education level and education debt, there's a statistical correlation between education debt and gun ownership. That should "imply" that having higher education loans will cause less gun ownership, or that not owning guns will cause less student debt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    He's not dismissing the correlation, he's saying that there is no causational relationship that can be inferred from correlation alone and provided examples where that is demonstrably the case.
    Exactly.

    Do I think that education level may contribute? Quite possibly. I'm not arguing that it doesn't, I'm only saying that discovering correlation may or may not lead you to the underlying problem.

    I'm not saying dismiss the correlation. I'm saying:
    Higher levels of education may cause lower rates of gun ownership.
    Lower rates of gun ownership may cause higher levels of education
    Some other factor or set of factors may cause higher levels of education and lower gun ownership to covary.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  5. #230
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Farmington, NH
    Age
    68
    Posts
    14,073

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    If there's correlation there a 3 possiblities for how it works
    A causes B
    B causes A
    C causes both A and B.
    the gateway drug argument, nearly 100% of heroin addicts started by smokin weed

    nearly 100% of weed smokers chewed bubble gum in their childhood

    I chewed bubble bum, therefore, I will become a heroin addict

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    RandyO
    IBA#9560
    A man with a gun is a citizen
    A man without a gun is a subject

  6. #231
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dorchester, MA / Mt Sunapee, NH
    Posts
    11,125

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    I love it when people tell me what I am thinking or tell me how I am feeling. Its my favorite.

    I shouldn't feed the mob especially when all they want to do is find every little excuse to distract from the main topic at hand. We live in an age of Trump where numbers and facts don't mean anything to the mob. But since I know you in real life, I will play.

    Here's an imaginary scenario that could explain the correlation. Perhaps highly educated people make more money and have the means to travel more. And see the world. And see how America is an island on this topic. Perhaps they focus their energies on saving for their kids' college, starting businesses, paying off their debts (student debt quite possibly). Perhaps they live in neighborhoods and live lifestyles where guns don't fit in. Hell, perhaps they are just too busy drinking lattes at Starbucks. And while they are distracted by all the things higher up on Maslow's hierarchy, perhaps they forget to buy guns or indulge in shooting things or people.

    On the flip side, perhaps the less educated people sit around in the sticks and shoot things because there's nothing better to do. Perhaps they have more time on their hands. Perhaps they have friends who all do the same. Perhaps they feel that owning guns makes them more manly/more powerful. Perhaps they like burying their heads in the sand because they don't like statistics.

    All of that is pure conjecture. We can do this all day with different scenarios. It's all irrelevant. Correlation in itself is enough to draw patterns. Unless of course you are the pro-gun community on NESR, in which case you can throw out anything that doesn't fit your world view and stick your head deeper in the mud while the most powerful nation in the history of humanity is continually embarrassed by dumbass idiots engaging in mass shootings and other fellas like yourself building walls and talking in circles to stop it from happening.
    Wow, I didn’t know Maura Healey was on this forum!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    If you get a thumbs down from me, pm me, it was inadvertent

  7. #232
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dorchester, MA / Mt Sunapee, NH
    Posts
    11,125

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Assuming your point is that everything was better before - it wasn't. And the same organization you're saying helped enforce moral character is the one who concealed a global child molestation problem. There are many moral failures that have occurred in the name of god, or by delusional hypocrites pretending they are moral. ///
    Many of the opposing combatants in the WWI trenches wondered how they could both be praying to the same god. Lots of Catholics and Lutherans.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    If you get a thumbs down from me, pm me, it was inadvertent

  8. #233
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The desert
    Posts
    2,074

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Wow, I didnít know Maura Healey was on this forum!
    Had to look her up, no idea who she was. Scary. What's scarier than her is that fact that she didn't just win the AG election, she crushed it. Something in the water down there??

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  9. #234
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Had to look her up, no idea who she was. Scary. What's scarier than her is that fact that she didn't just win the AG election, she crushed it. Something in the water down there??
    Just a bunch of fucktards who apparently failed history and civics....

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  10. #235

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    I love it when people tell me what I am thinking or tell me how I am feeling. Its my favorite.

    I shouldn't feed the mob especially when all they want to do is find every little excuse to distract from the main topic at hand. We live in an age of Trump where numbers and facts don't mean anything to the mob. But since I know you in real life, I will play.

    Here's an imaginary scenario that could explain the correlation. Perhaps highly educated people make more money and have the means to travel more. And see the world. And see how America is an island on this topic. Perhaps they focus their energies on saving for their kids' college, starting businesses, paying off their debts (student debt quite possibly). Perhaps they live in neighborhoods and live lifestyles where guns don't fit in. Hell, perhaps they are just too busy drinking lattes at Starbucks. And while they are distracted by all the things higher up on Maslow's hierarchy, perhaps they forget to buy guns or indulge in shooting things or people.

    On the flip side, perhaps the less educated people sit around in the sticks and shoot things because there's nothing better to do. Perhaps they have more time on their hands. Perhaps they have friends who all do the same. Perhaps they feel that owning guns makes them more manly/more powerful. Perhaps they like burying their heads in the sand because they don't like statistics.

    All of that is pure conjecture. We can do this all day with different scenarios. It's all irrelevant. Correlation in itself is enough to draw patterns. Unless of course you are the pro-gun community on NESR, in which case you can throw out anything that doesn't fit your world view and stick your head deeper in the mud while the most powerful nation in the history of humanity is continually embarrassed by dumbass idiots engaging in mass shootings and other fellas like yourself building walls and talking in circles to stop it from happening.

    See, problem is you are doing exactly what you are accusing the pro gun crowd of.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  11. #236
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Farmington, NH
    Age
    68
    Posts
    14,073

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Just a bunch of fucktards who apparently failed history and civics....
    fuck off, I took history and civics and passed with high marks, before you or Maura Healey were even a twinkle in yer parents eyes

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    RandyO
    IBA#9560
    A man with a gun is a citizen
    A man without a gun is a subject

  12. #237

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Haha that's actually funny Give up Your Guns?

    I've been called a lot of things on NESR but professor isn't one of them. Shit, I'll take it.
    And since you are on the education bus (assumed many here are low on that poll) remind me again the level of education of the Vegas shooter..? I just want to see if there is any correlation. Or that doesn't matter because it was an isolated incident?

    Mind you I also agree that there is a gun problem in the USA and current gun laws are a joke and not preventing shit from happening

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  13. #238
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    fuck off, I took history and civics and passed with high marks, before you or Maura Healey were even a twinkle in yer parents eyes
    What does that have to do with MA politics

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  14. #239
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,358

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    What does that have to do with MA politics

    Lol. Cause Randy.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  15. #240
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,058

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    If there's correlation there a 3 possiblities for how it works
    A causes B
    B causes A
    C causes both A and B

    If you want to prove causation then you need to do an experiment to confirm causation. Have a theory. Test the theory. You also have to make absolutely sure as you test the theory that there isn't another factor changing that is causing A to covary with B.
    THIS!!! Thank you.

    In the example above we analysts refer to C as an "auxiliary hypothesis". It's the very reason why data and analytics aren't everything. Further complicating matters is the fact that you can never know for sure whether or not C exists. Now here's where it get's really interesting. If C causes A and B, yet you can never be sure if you have found C, then that means no matter how detailed of an analysis you do for the correlation between A and B, you can never be sure you are right because you can't confirm the existence, or lack of, C.

    The scientific community sees this all the time. They think something is the case because years of experiments and research show it's the case until one day they discover C, which leads them to realize all along they were wrong.

    In most cases today, data and analytics are not being used to find truth, they are being used to force a perspective. This is accomplished by undermining the possible (or even certain) existence of C. We analysts have a saying...Figures lie and liars figure.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  16. #241
    Lifer joeswamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Swampscott, MA
    Posts
    1,108

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    I think it's tough to put gun owners into one category, because so many people own guns for so many different reasons. For example, let's say you are:

    • A farmer who needs to defend his livestock (and sometimes himself) from predators
    • An antique gun collector who enjoys restoring old firearms
    • A competitive target shooter who spends all his free time at the range
    • A deer hunting enthusiast who lives for the hunting season
    • An urban gang member who specializes in drive-by shootings
    • A narcissist sociopath with a bad gambling addiction and an intense dislike of country music


    All of these folks are going to have different backgrounds, different average education levels, and different attitudes towards society in general. Really the only thing they have in common is that all will possess lots of guns (at least in the USA). I'm not sure what you learn from treating them as a single group.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by joeswamp; 11-09-17 at 04:32 PM.
    Joe
    04 Thruxton (Street)
    01 SV650 (Track)
    75 CB400F (Future Vintage Racer)
    68 BSA Royal Star (Garage Floor Lubricator)

  17. #242
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Can someone please explain the rationale for the pro-gun side? Is it because you want the right to bear arms against a government that could potentially become oppressive?
    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    I think it's tough to put gun owners into one category, because so many people own guns for so many different reasons. For example, let's say you are:

    • A farmer who needs to defend his livestock (and sometimes himself) from predators
    • An antique gun collector who enjoys restoring old firearms
    • A competitive target shooter who spends all his free time at the range
    • A deer hunting enthusiast who lives for the hunting season
    • An urban gang member who specializes in drive-by shootings
    • A narcissist sociopath with a bad gambling addiction and an intense dislike of country music


    All of these folks are going to have different backgrounds, different average education levels, and different attitudes towards society in general. Really the only thing they have in common is that all will possess lots of guns (at least in the USA). I'm not sure what you learn from treating them as a single group.
    Maybe that you're condscending and smug while you attempt to convince dumb, ignorant gun nuts that they're the problem.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  18. #243
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Southwick,MA
    Posts
    2,365

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    I dropped out in ninth grade, as soon as gun mania took
    over my life. One of these days, I plan to go back to school, but only if I run out of ammo. Otherwise, I wont have time and even then I probably wont be able to concentrate due to fantasies about killing someone who I catch touching my tractor. If that happens, I could care less how many sheets of drywall get penetrated. One shot, AT LEAST one kill, thats my motto.

    5 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  19. #244
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Farmington, NH
    Age
    68
    Posts
    14,073

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    I think it's tough to put gun owners into one category, because so many people own guns for so many different reasons. For example, let's say you are:

    • A farmer who needs to defend his livestock (and sometimes himself) from predators
    • An antique gun collector who enjoys restoring old firearms
    • A competitive target shooter who spends all his free time at the range
    • A deer hunting enthusiast who lives for the hunting season
    • An urban gang member who specializes in drive-by shootings
    • A narcissist sociopath with a bad gambling addiction and an intense dislike of country music


    All of these folks are going to have different backgrounds, different average education levels, and different attitudes towards society in general. Really the only thing they have in common is that all will possess lots of guns (at least in the USA). I'm not sure what you learn from treating them as a single group.
    ye fergot prolly the biggest reason of all,[*] Culture, just the way you were brought up, peer pressure in school ? everyone I knew had some kind of long gun by the time they were 12. Deer hunting bored me, too much sitting still. Squirrel hunting, different story, it was always a successful hunt. Some of my friends didn't hunt at all, they just had em. That culture gets passed on, my so was 11 or 12, I gave him a Winchester SXP 12ga with slug barrel & shot barrel with a couple different chokes, to this day he's never been interested in hunting, nor does he go to the range, or collect antiques or have livestock to defend.

    owning a gun is no different than owning a pocket knife or a watch. Glocks are a jewelry fashion statement more than anything

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    RandyO
    IBA#9560
    A man with a gun is a citizen
    A man without a gun is a subject

  20. #245
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    ye fergot prolly the biggest reason of all,[*] Culture, just the way you were brought up, peer pressure in school ? everyone I knew had some kind of long gun by the time they were 12. Deer hunting bored me, too much sitting still. Squirrel hunting, different story, it was always a successful hunt. Some of my friends didn't hunt at all, they just had em. That culture gets passed on, my so was 11 or 12, I gave him a Winchester SXP 12ga with slug barrel & shot barrel with a couple different chokes, to this day he's never been interested in hunting, nor does he go to the range, or collect antiques or have livestock to defend.

    owning a gun is no different than owning a pocket knife or a watch. Glocks are a jewelry fashion statement more than anything
    You have more than one son?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  21. #246
    Lifer joeswamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Swampscott, MA
    Posts
    1,108

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    I think it's tough to put gun owners into one category, because so many people own guns for so many different reasons. For example, let's say you are:

    • A farmer who needs to defend his livestock (and sometimes himself) from predators
    • An antique gun collector who enjoys restoring old firearms
    • A competitive target shooter who spends all his free time at the range
    • A deer hunting enthusiast who lives for the hunting season
    • An urban gang member who specializes in drive-by shootings
    • A narcissist sociopath with a bad gambling addiction and an intense dislike of country music


    All of these folks are going to have different backgrounds, different average education levels, and different attitudes towards society in general. Really the only thing they have in common is that all will possess lots of guns (at least in the USA). I'm not sure what you learn from treating them as a single group.
    Maybe that you're condscending and smug while you attempt to convince dumb, ignorant gun nuts that they're the problem.
    Apologies if my post came off that way, I was not intending to be condescending or smug.

    I was only trying to point out that gun owners are such a disparate group that it makes little sense statistically to lump them all together. The history professor that restores civil war firearms in his basement is not the same as the gang member who holds his handgun sideways while he shoots up a school bus.

    I was also trying to point out that some reasons for owning guns are more valid than others. The reason Germany can have such a high gun ownership rate with such a low gun crime rate is because, unlike us, they take great pains to prevent guns being owned by the people in my last two categories.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Joe
    04 Thruxton (Street)
    01 SV650 (Track)
    75 CB400F (Future Vintage Racer)
    68 BSA Royal Star (Garage Floor Lubricator)

  22. #247
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    Apologies if my post came off that way, I was not intending to be condescending or smug.

    I was only trying to point out that gun owners are such a disparate group that it makes little sense statistically to lump them all together. The history professor that restores civil war firearms in his basement is not the same as the gang member who holds his handgun sideways while he shoots up a school bus.

    I was also trying to point out that some reasons for owning guns are more valid than others. The reason Germany can have such a high gun ownership rate with such a low gun crime rate is because, unlike us, they take great pains to prevent guns being owned by the people in my last two categories.
    I know, that wasn't directed back at you. We disagree on things but I do think you try to see multiple perspectives. I totally respect that.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  23. #248
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Eastern Ct
    Posts
    3,248

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Yes pansies afraid of the world hide out in schools for advanced degrees then move to blue cities where you cant get a gun

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  24. #249
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Farmington, NH
    Age
    68
    Posts
    14,073

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    You have more than one son?
    I'm talkin about the one you know

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    RandyO
    IBA#9560
    A man with a gun is a citizen
    A man without a gun is a subject

  25. #250
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I'm talkin about the one you know
    The range thing threw me. I guess backyards count

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •