Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Page 16 of 20 FirstFirst ... 67891011121314151617181920 LastLast
Results 376 to 400 of 495

Give up Your Guns?

  1. #376
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,358

    Re: Give up Your Guns?


    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Charleston... hate crime, let's talk about guns though.

    Orlando.... hate crime, let's talk about guns though.

    San Bernadino.... yeah, that's about guns too, we can't talk about what really happened because they were brown.

    And the favorite of the grave standers, Sandy Hook. Psycho who killed his mother and broke into a storage cabinet after failing a background check......yeah that was all about the guns too. We need to do something!!!!!

    How many people were shot in Chicago this month alone? Oh wait, people dying in 1s and 2s don't matter, we only want to talk about 4 or more because that's the real issue
    All I hear from you is more "it's just going to happen, so whatever".

    Do you have any actual ideas to reduce (eliminate is not a reality) these mass shootings?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  2. #377
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,358

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    we all would but we also know that's fairy tale land at this point...how do you prevent people from going nuts/snapping or whatever you want to call it?...you can't totally...mandate that all US citizens be mentally evaluated yearly?...because what does it matter the method of killing...anyone can do it if they really want to...don't forget to test the illegals too though...you can make criminals prohibited persons and hope the paperwork is processed properly and promptly...you can convict and keep these criminals in prison...you can bring back the death penalty and try to eradicate this type of mindset from breeding...you can bring back insane asylums...you can try to help people with mental issues with drugs and counseling...

    instead of mass shooters these people should be called domestic terrorists and treated as such...by the way is tsarnaev been executed yet?...lets speed this process up
    1. Repeal the law that bans the government from collecting data about gun deaths, or funding studies to analyze gun deaths. HOW CAN YOU MAKE EDUCATED DECISIONS WITHOUT DATA?

    2. Talks begin in good faith without preconditions. Meaning, anti's or pro-2a's who say "No new gun laws" or "Ban all guns" are excluded from the conversation.

    - Name any recent mass shooters who could stand to be executed faster than they currently are.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  3. #378
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    All I hear from you is more "it's just going to happen, so whatever".

    Do you have any actual ideas to reduce (eliminate is not a reality) these mass shootings?
    You hear what you want to hear.

    I've already said the media is complicit. If we stop glorifying the events it will make a difference. They positively trip over themselves with their "coverage". It's all about the ratings for them and it's about the 15 minutes of fame with a lot of the shooters.

    There has to be a way we could do that without infringing on their rights, similar to yelling fire in a theater etc... That is if we really want to do something about the mass shootings vs making it all about the gun.....

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  4. #379
    Lifer eboos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,395

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Let's talk about mass shootings, and mass shootings only.
    I think it would be disingenuous to talk about mass shootings without considering what leads to mass shootings. This country has a murder problem, and while firearms are the tool of choice to facilitate those murders, correlation does not equal causation. Right now AR 15 variants are targeted by the media and antis as something unnecessarily deadly and should be banned from civilian use. However, that doesn't take into consideration how many millions of AR 15 variants have been sold to law abiding civilians and had never been used to commit a crime. As many pointed out, they are blaming the tool, not the individual.

    So lets look to the individual: Overwhelmingly there had been a prior history of violence and mental illness associated with the perpetrators of these mass shootings. I am not a doctor, but I will go out on a limb and say that the very act of conducting a mass shooting of random targets can only be done by someone who has had a history of mental illness. So; let's take away their tools - deny them gun ownership. While I agree that this will help, denying such people from possessing the preferred tool for mass murder in this country, it does not address the underlying problem, and it does not prevent that person from choosing another tool. By banning all citizens from possessing these firearms, you are denying lawful citizens from possession of a legitimate tool that can be, and has been, used to defend against a potential mass murder (among many more legitimate civilian uses).

    4 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    CCS/LRRS/NEMM AM #205 (Inactive)


  5. #380
    Lifer eboos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,395

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    1. Repeal the law that bans the government from collecting data about gun deaths, or funding studies to analyze gun deaths. HOW CAN YOU MAKE EDUCATED DECISIONS WITHOUT DATA?
    Numbers and studies are only as reliable as the researchers/analysts. Almost impossible to eliminate bias.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    CCS/LRRS/NEMM AM #205 (Inactive)


  6. #381
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    the fairest of havens
    Age
    41
    Posts
    14,010

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Great. Protect kids with the lowest bidder. I guess we don't really care that much after all.

    I am really coming to wonder what fantasy world you live in. Do you know how the world outside your bubble works?
    Do yourself a favor and take a look around.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Cliff's Cycles KTM
    NETRA enduro B-vet
    Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.

  7. #382
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    South Coast MAsshole
    Age
    39
    Posts
    2,295

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    1. Repeal the law that bans the government from collecting data about gun deaths, or funding studies to analyze gun deaths. HOW CAN YOU MAKE EDUCATED DECISIONS WITHOUT DATA?

    2. Talks begin in good faith without preconditions. Meaning, anti's or pro-2a's who say "No new gun laws" or "Ban all guns" are excluded from the conversation.

    - Name any recent mass shooters who could stand to be executed faster than they currently are.
    how about...Esteban Santiago...Jason Dalton...Dylann Roof...James Holmes...One Goh...what do i win?

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by Point37; 11-15-17 at 10:52 AM.
    bike: none but i have a seafoam green 125cc scooter
    Point37s Garage Sale Thread

  8. #383
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    the fairest of havens
    Age
    41
    Posts
    14,010

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    You hear what you want to hear.

    I've already said the media is complicit. If we stop glorifying the events it will make a difference. They positively trip over themselves with their "coverage". It's all about the ratings for them and it's about the 15 minutes of fame with a lot of the shooters.

    There has to be a way we could do that without infringing on their rights, similar to yelling fire in a theater etc... That is if we really want to do something about the mass shootings vs making it all about the gun.....
    They’ve got to cover it, it is news. But I agree that they do glorify it to a certain extent. They could start by not saying the criminals name in such instances. A small step, perhaps. That way there’s no fame involved

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Cliff's Cycles KTM
    NETRA enduro B-vet
    Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.

  9. #384
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    South Coast MAsshole
    Age
    39
    Posts
    2,295

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    I think it would be disingenuous to talk about mass shootings without considering what leads to mass shootings. This country has a murder problem, and while firearms are the tool of choice to facilitate those murders, correlation does not equal causation. Right now AR 15 variants are targeted by the media and antis as something unnecessarily deadly and should be banned from civilian use. However, that doesn't take into consideration how many millions of AR 15 variants have been sold to law abiding civilians and had never been used to commit a crime. As many pointed out, they are blaming the tool, not the individual.

    So lets look to the individual: Overwhelmingly there had been a prior history of violence and mental illness associated with the perpetrators of these mass shootings. I am not a doctor, but I will go out on a limb and say that the very act of conducting a mass shooting of random targets can only be done by someone who has had a history of mental illness. So; let's take away their tools - deny them gun ownership. While I agree that this will help, denying such people from possessing the preferred tool for mass murder in this country, it does not address the underlying problem, and it does not prevent that person from choosing another tool. By banning all citizens from possessing these firearms, you are denying lawful citizens from possession of a legitimate tool that can be, and has been, used to defend against a potential mass murder (among many more legitimate civilian uses).
    ^^^this

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    bike: none but i have a seafoam green 125cc scooter
    Point37s Garage Sale Thread

  10. #385
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,358

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    By banning all citizens from possessing these firearms, you are denying lawful citizens from possession of a legitimate tool that can be, and has been, used to defend against a potential mass murder (among many more legitimate civilian uses).
    Knee jerk.

    You mentioned banning all firearms.

    I'm looking for a reasonable solution, not an "all or nothing" approach from either side.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  11. #386
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,358

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    You hear what you want to hear.

    I've already said the media is complicit. If we stop glorifying the events it will make a difference. They positively trip over themselves with their "coverage". It's all about the ratings for them and it's about the 15 minutes of fame with a lot of the shooters.

    There has to be a way we could do that without infringing on their rights, similar to yelling fire in a theater etc... That is if we really want to do something about the mass shootings vs making it all about the gun.....
    So you are ok with reasonable limitations within the 1st amendment in the interest of public safety.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  12. #387
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    I am really coming to wonder what fantasy world you live in. Do you know how the world outside your bubble works?
    Do yourself a favor and take a look around.
    What part of that statement was inaccurate?

    Yeah, we love the lowest bidder (or cheap Wal-Mart shit etc...).

    What's that say when we protect what are supposedly our most precious assets with the lowest cost option?

    I guess anything for the children only applies when we're trying to take things away from people, not when everyone might have to pay for it.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  13. #388
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    So you are ok with reasonable limitations within the 1st amendment in the interest of public safety.
    I know where you're going with that and we have vastly different definitions of what is "reasonable".

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  14. #389
    Lifer eboos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,395

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Knee jerk.

    You mentioned banning all firearms.

    I'm looking for a reasonable solution, not an "all or nothing" approach from either side.
    You may be looking for a reasonable solution, and that is why we are able to have a conversation. There are many people in this country, and in the legislature, who are trying to force their "reasonable solution" down our throats. CT AWB and what is being passed around the country is not reasonable and doesn't actually address the problem.

    3 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by eboos; 11-15-17 at 11:00 AM.

    CCS/LRRS/NEMM AM #205 (Inactive)


  15. #390
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Knee jerk.

    You mentioned banning all firearms.

    I'm looking for a reasonable solution, not an "all or nothing" approach from either side.
    He didn't mention banning all firearms, read it again.

    And to be clear, they certainly are talking about banning those firearms again, despite the fact everyone found the ban had no measurable effect the first time. What changed?

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  16. #391
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Royalston, MA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    20,358

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    THEY

    They are voted into office, because each side votes in more and more extreme candidates each cycle. When you say "NO NEW GUN LAWS NO MATTER WHAT", you are encouraging that behavior. When "they" say "NO GUNS AT ALL", they are encouraging that behavior.


    Slippery slope is just as effective as sky is falling when convincing voters. Don't pretend you are somehow above all this.



    I am here. I am a gun owner. I am a gun hobbyist. I am NOT a gun nut. I'd like to find a way forward to reducing these shootings, kids/adults/schools/churches/concerts/etc. I'm all ears.

    "well xxxxxx won't work" isn't an idea.

    Let's make with the ideas.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    -Clayton
    2006 Suzuki SV650
    2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650
    2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
    1982 Honda CB750F Super Sport

  17. #392
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    the fairest of havens
    Age
    41
    Posts
    14,010

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    What part of that statement was inaccurate?

    Yeah, we love the lowest bidder (or cheap Wal-Mart shit etc...).

    What's that say when we protect what are supposedly our most precious assets with the lowest cost option?

    I guess anything for the children only applies when we're trying to take things away from people, not when everyone might have to pay for it.
    The part where you implied that some us military veteran police officer would be the one doing that job.
    And you keep using the word you at me like I’m some sjw trying to take your most prized possessions away.
    How many times do I need to say that’s not what I’m about?
    Can we not have the conversation?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Cliff's Cycles KTM
    NETRA enduro B-vet
    Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.

  18. #393
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Farmington, NH
    Age
    68
    Posts
    14,073

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    Right now AR 15 variants are targeted by the media and antis as something unnecessarily deadly and should be banned from civilian use.
    media lost ALL its credibility when it started calling any weapon black in color, an AR15.

    One of the reasons the 3 long guns I recently purchased are wooden stock, is because people who are gun ignorant believe the media's deception.

    why is all of a sudden "life" in this country become the the goal of morality. No matter what changes happen, we will not become immortal, everyone WILL die at some point in time.

    there was a time families were large, we are led to believe, it was to have more farmhands. In reality, it was because not all children made it to adulthood, children did the dangerous jobs cause they were expendable

    this morality is still present in other corners of the world, should we be forcing our morality on other cultures ? What about people here that want to continue with the culture they grew up with.

    Let's hear the morally righteous people speak, and tell us how we are mentally defective if we don't go along with mob mentality of moral righteousness

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    RandyO
    IBA#9560
    A man with a gun is a citizen
    A man without a gun is a subject

  19. #394
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    The part where you implied that some us military veteran police officer would be the one doing that job.
    And you keep using the word you at me like I’m some sjw trying to take your most prized possessions away.
    How many times do I need to say that’s not what I’m about?
    Can we not have the conversation?
    I see what you're saying.

    In my town, the SRO is a LEO.

    I figured most of MA was similar.

    I can see the lowest bidder being more applicable to more rural areas that don't have such a high concentration of leos.

    You say that's not what you're about, but I tend to forget that when you always refer to gun nuts as doughy motherfuckers with hero complexes. It's like you look down on them and don't want them to have access to the things they do.

    I'll try not to make the association going forward.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  20. #395
    Lifer eboos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,395

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    THEY

    They are voted into office, because each side votes in more and more extreme candidates each cycle.
    Way too big of a problem to even talk about. I do not see any realistic solutions since this would necessitate a societal shift that had been going in the other direction for far too long.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    CCS/LRRS/NEMM AM #205 (Inactive)


  21. #396
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    the fairest of havens
    Age
    41
    Posts
    14,010

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    I see what you're saying.

    In my town, the SRO is a LEO.

    I figured most of MA was similar.

    I can see the lowest bidder being more applicable to more rural areas that don't have such a high concentration of leos.

    You say that's not what you're about, but I tend to forget that when you always refer to gun nuts as doughy motherfuckers with hero complexes. It's like you look down on them and don't want them to have access to the things they do.

    I'll try not to make the association going forward.

    the SRO usually is law enforcement. I can't, for the life of me, see communities using cops for mass security should it come to that. this is America, after all.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Cliff's Cycles KTM
    NETRA enduro B-vet
    Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.

  22. #397
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,413

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    def on the list but opioid abuse is higher, obesity is higher, distracted driving deaths are higher...all on the list but the media doesn't report those constantly even though they cause more deaths, cause ratings...you don't hear people screaming about those issues as loud at "mass shootings"...which is now defined as what 4 or more people being shot/injured by bullets?...i bet there are mass shootings every day in chicago but those don't get reported cause it's an everyday occurrence plus strict gun control isn't working on the criminals/gangs and these stories don't further the agenda that the media/puppet masters are force feeding people
    They do report on all of those things with relative frequency. But they definitely turn it up to 11 after a shooting event. The 'problem' is that there aren't usually specific events where many people die all at once with those other topics. So they get peppered in, but they don't come in huge, 24hr cycle dominating waves. They covered the fuck out of airplane stuff a few years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    "whataboutism"


    YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT TRAFFIC DEATHS?

    YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT DRUG DEATHS?



    You guys are using the same level of flawed argument that our idiot president uses to steer the conversation away from the topic at hand. Congrats. Must feel good to be like trump.
    Ehhhh I think that depends on the intent. One is a blatant attempt to try and distract people from an issue. The other is saying if you're going to spend time and money, let's focus on X first, where the supporter thinks we'll get more return on investment.
    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Yeah, no. The anti gun people aren't trying to "do something". They are anti-gun. They don't want them around period.

    We don't ask to ban trucks when crazy fuckers drive into crowds.

    We don't ban pressure cookers when crazy fuckers blow up runners.

    We don't call for banning any other object when some crazy fucker uses it for evil.

    When it comes to guns there is a complete disconnect. All of a sudden it's the object that is the issue.

    Yes, the antis ARE the enemy. Everything they have or propose has failed over and over again yet they always want more. The more always seems to affect the innocent and does nothing to prevent any of this. So yes, they ARE the enemy. They know full well what they propose is b.s. yet they do it anyway because they can capitalize on the fear to further their agenda. That's not tin hat, that's reality. History has proven that over and over and over.

    Turn off the t.v. and open your eyes.
    There's an important underlying point that doesn't get enough acknowledgement in those discussions. They don't want to ban trucks and pressure cookers because they see them as useful. People who want to ban or substantially restrict guns don't see them as that useful or valuable.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    nedirtriders.com

  23. #398
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,786

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    .

    There's an important underlying point that doesn't get enough acknowledgement in those discussions. They don't want to ban trucks and pressure cookers because they see them as useful. People who want to ban or substantially restrict guns don't see them as that useful or valuable.
    Well those people can go fuck themselves.

    I do get your point though.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  24. #399
    Grizzly Fuckin Adams dhuze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    woonsocket ri
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,154

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    media lost ALL its credibility when it started calling any weapon black in color, an AR15.

    One of the reasons the 3 long guns I recently purchased are wooden stock, is because people who are gun ignorant believe the media's deception.

    why is all of a sudden "life" in this country become the the goal of morality. No matter what changes happen, we will not become immortal, everyone WILL die at some point in time.

    there was a time families were large, we are led to believe, it was to have more farmhands. In reality, it was because not all children made it to adulthood, children did the dangerous jobs cause they were expendable

    this morality is still present in other corners of the world, should we be forcing our morality on other cultures ? What about people here that want to continue with the culture they grew up with.

    Let's hear the morally righteous people speak, and tell us how we are mentally defective if we don't go along with mob mentality of moral righteousness
    Don't lie Randy. Oh wait!



    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by dhuze; 11-15-17 at 04:52 PM.
    You suck at life. Why don't you quit?

    My dad told me I could be anything I wanted when I grew up. So I became an Asshole.

  25. #400
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    South Coast MAsshole
    Age
    39
    Posts
    2,295

    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    12ga ar15...so badass!!!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    bike: none but i have a seafoam green 125cc scooter
    Point37s Garage Sale Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •