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Give up Your Guns?

  1. #401
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?


    Surprised the media hasn't jumped on the ghost gun bandwagon. I was wondering why they hadn't been calling the rifles used ARs like they normally do.

    Shockingly, this looks like another major gun control fail and he made the weapons himself. Ever see the AK made from the shovel on NES......

    Interesting info here:

    Wife of Tehama County shooter found dead under the floor of their home | The Sacramento Bee

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  2. #402
    Lifer eboos's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    The AR15 is such an easy target for the media and the antis because:

    1. The U.S. military and several militaries around the world had adopted automatic or burst fire versions of it.
    2. The media and the antis take advantage of the mainstream's lack of knowledge or ability to distinguish between semiautomatic and automatic fire.
    3. The name AR15 had been mistakenly attributed to mean "Assault Rifle" by some, and not corrected to "ArmiLite Rifle".
    4. The appearance of the rifle, with the various modifications and accessories available, while making the rifle more user friendly and tailored to the user's specific use, yet does not effect the operation of the rifle, looks menacing. You could even add a chainsaw to it and really scare the shit out of people

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  3. #403
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    The AR15 is such an easy target for the media and the antis because:

    1. The U.S. military and several militaries around the world had adopted automatic or burst fire versions of it.
    2. The media and the antis take advantage of the mainstream's lack of knowledge or ability to distinguish between semiautomatic and automatic fire.
    3. The name AR15 had been mistakenly attributed to mean "Assault Rifle" by some, and not corrected to "ArmiLite Rifle".
    4. The appearance of the rifle, with the various modifications and accessories available, while making the rifle more user friendly and tailored to the user's specific use, yet does not effect the operation of the rifle, looks menacing. You could even add a chainsaw to it and really scare the shit out of people
    5. Use a pump gun to blow the shit out of a watermelon to scare people....

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  4. #404
    Lifer eboos's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    5. Use a pump gun to blow the shit out of a watermelon to scare people....
    Well, that one started out as a 0% AR ghost gun (a hunk of metal in layman's terms) and was built into a 12 gauge pump version.

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  5. #405
    Grizzly Fuckin Adams dhuze's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Point37 View Post
    12ga ar15...so badass!!!
    They do exist.


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  6. #406
    Lifer
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Well those people can go fuck themselves.

    I do get your point though.
    They probably think the same of you. And that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

    If you want to have meaningful debate, expect to have to argue why individuals should own guns, and something more than a small caliber pistol or bolt action 22. 'Because I like to target shoot' doesn't really hold a lot of ground when the people you're arguing with see the hobby device as a machine built for killing.

    From a 2A militia angle, and I'm just rambling, what about requiring one join a militia organization to own weapons, or at least weapons useful in a militia. Like if you want a double barrel shotgun for the farm, go bananas. To have the AR15, please join local militia, and we'll need to see proof of membership on the form. The unintended consequence is that it's gonna drive a bunch of mallcops and steven seagall wannabe's to leave mom's basement and get organized. Edit: on second thought, there's a bit of irony in having the government make weapons approvals based on membership status for their oversight groups.

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  7. #407
    is not wearing pants Point37's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhuze View Post
    They do exist.

    oh i know...and troy makes a pump action ar15

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  8. #408
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    ... Edit: on second thought, there's a bit of irony in having the government make weapons approvals based on membership status for their oversight groups.
    The KEY point. The WHOLE IDEA of the 2nd Amendment was to NOT allow the government to decide (or even know) who is armed. Therefore, *any* proposal that involves licensing, permissions, governmental hoops, or any similar thing, is (a) contrary to the spirit and purpose of the 2nd Amendment, and (b) unacceptable to people who hold to the principles of liberty and individual rights.

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  9. #409
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    5. Use a pump gun to blow the shit out of a watermelon to scare people....
    Does this mean Gallagher is an AR-15?




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    Last edited by ZX-12R; 11-15-17 at 05:51 PM.
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  10. #410
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Another enormous reason why the AR15 is a popular target for "bans" is that it is ubiquitous in the US. It, and its variants, are by far and away the most popular rifle sold in the US today. 223/556 is readily available and comparatively affordable.

    Few mention anything about firearms like the Mini 14. Which-correct me if I'm wrong-is largely similar to the AR.

    The Hi Point carbine was created largely in response to the 1994 "assault weapons" ban for crying out loud! Very silly.

    Banning one rifle because it is scary looking or popular while letting another, functionally identical rifle continue to be sold is really dumb.

    So. You know. Something other than that this time. Mmkay?!

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  11. #411
    Lifer
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    The KEY point. The WHOLE IDEA of the 2nd Amendment was to NOT allow the government to decide (or even know) who is armed. Therefore, *any* proposal that involves licensing, permissions, governmental hoops, or any similar thing, is (a) contrary to the spirit and purpose of the 2nd Amendment, and (b) unacceptable to people who hold to the principles of liberty and individual rights.
    Understood. I pretty much said that. I still wonder if there's a way it could work. Could the burden of membership proof be left to private sellers and gun stores? It becomes somewhat of a trust system, but that way there is some lose circle of people who agree this person's not an asshole. A system of 'police your own'?

    That aside, does this mean you believe anyone should be able to own a gun? Or are you willing to concede that there is some degree of mental illness which would surrender that right? I don't want the government determining which mental health issues give away a right. But I think there's definitely some people on the far end of mentally unstable who shouldn't have access to weapons.

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  12. #412
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    Challenged Joeswamp and xxaarraa to try and get a LCF because they have no idea how difficult the process is for law-abiding citizens. Then they went radio silent.....
    Wish you challenged me 8 months ago...

    I was actually rather surprised at how easy it was to go through the process. Long & tedious, yes, but I didn't really think it was difficult at all.

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  13. #413
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Wish you challenged me 8 months ago...

    I was actually rather surprised at how easy it was to go through the process. Long & tedious, yes, but I didn't really think it was difficult at all.
    Try doing it in Lowell....You applied in a green town and you're white.

    I love how state law requires them to act within 40 days but they say it takes 3 months

    ........................................................................... .........................................................................

    All Forms of License to Carry (LTC)

    All applicants must be at least 21 years of age, a resident of the City of Lowell, and a citizen or Permanent Resident Alien.
    All applicants for an LTC must successfully complete, with certification, a Massachusetts State Police-approved Firearms Safety Course that includes a live fire component (or a Massachusetts State Police-approved Firearms Safety Course and a live fire training course). Check at your local gun club or online at the Gun Owners' Action League website, or the National Rifle Association (NRA) Instructors website to find a certified training program.
    There is a $100 application fee for a Firearm ID (FID) or a LTC. Only Money Orders or Personal Checks are accepted as payment; no cash or credits are accepted, and all fees are non-refundable. Fees may be waived for applicants over the age of 70. All payments are due at the time of your interview.
    Please bring to the interview:
    A completed application form (obtainable from the Lowell Police Department)
    A copy of your Birth Certificate (if you are a citizen by birth), a U.S. passport, Naturalization Papers, or Permanent Resident Card, whichever is applicable
    Copies of the certificates you have received from applicable training course(s)
    If you are applying for an LTC for occupational purposes or an unrestricted LTC, bring all other applicable documentation for Occupational Purposes, or Unrestricted LTC
    Following the interview, the licensing authority of the Lowell Police Department reviews the application and a thorough criminal background investigation is conducted. Applicants will be notified by mail once the application process is completed. The process from interview to notification takes approximately 3 months.


    Applications for an unrestricted LTC will only be granted in limited circumstances.

    Applicants for an unrestricted LTC must, in addition to completing the Massachusetts State Police-approved Firearms Safety Course/live fire training referenced 2, satisfactorily demonstrate that they have training or experience that satisfies the key components of courses focused on concealed carry of a firearm in public places. For example, such components include but are not limited to: de-escalation of violence techniques; the lawful use of deadly force; responsibilities associated with carrying a concealed weapon; and concealed carry techniques. Applicants may satisfy this condition by submitting evidence of such training or experience, or by successful completion of one of the following training courses:
    Safe Carry Firearms Course (MA MTC-024)
    NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside the Home (Level 1) or NRA Defensive Pistol
    SIG Arms Concealed Carry Pistol Course (LTC-012); GOAL The Art of Concealed Carry in Massachusetts
    Mass Firearms School Concealed Carry I
    Applicants for an unrestricted LTC must further submit a written supplement providing specific reasons that the applicant believes support granting the unrestricted access. The written supplement should identify the applicant's proper purpose in seeking an unrestricted LTC.
    Applicants for an unrestricted LTC should also provide any additional documentation they may have that will assist the Superintendent in making a determination that issuance of an unrestricted LTC to the applicant will not pose a threat to public safety. Applicants are encouraged to submit as much such documentation as possible. Examples of such documentation include, but are not limited to:
    Current or prior service in the military;
    Current or prior service in law enforcement;
    Prior receipt of an unrestricted LTC from another community or state, with no record of any violation of any term or condition of the LTC;
    Prior receipt of a restricted LTC from Lowell or from another community or state, with no record of any violation of any term or condition of the LTC (the receipt of such from Lowell will carry greater weight than the receipt of such license from elsewhere);
    Prior receipt of a Firearms Identification Card (FID) from Lowell or from another community or state, with no record of any violation of any term or condition of the FID (the receipt of such from Lowell will carry greater weight than the receipt of such license from elsewhere);
    Prior receipt of a hunter safety training and/or experience hunting;
    Signed letters of recommendation that show the applicant's good character and emotional stability. Such letters of recommendation should indicate that the applicant is not subject to excessive drinking habits, substance abuse, or violent behavior. Letters of reference may, but need not, be from the references listed on the applicant's application. Letters from an applicant's relatives are not acceptable. Each letter of reference must be on 8.5 inches x 11 inches paper and be signed, dated, and show the reference's name, address and telephone number. The Superintendent of the Lowell Police Department, or his or her designee, reserves the right to contact each reference.

    Additionally
    A particularly strong application with regard to 9 will result in a lesser need to provide documentation with regard to 10, and vice versa. Failure to produce satisfactory documentation in accordance with 9 and 10 may result in the denial of an unrestricted LTC.

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    Last edited by e30addict; 11-15-17 at 06:48 PM.
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  14. #414
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonk! View Post
    Toughen up snowflake. There's nothing we can do to prevent these attacks. Maybe start a new thread with an obtuse discussion on mental health or why existing gun laws aren't being enforced. If you can't accept innocents being gunned down you don't belong in this country.
    Anytime I see someone use the word "snowflake" outside of a meteorological context, I immediately want to blow my fucking brains out. For the sake of gun related violence statistics (as well as my personal well being), FUCKING STOP IT! YOU'RE MAKING YOURSELF SOUND LIKE A GOD DAMN FUCKING DOUCHE BAG SHIT FUCK FUCK SHIT FUCK!

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 11-15-17 at 07:15 PM.
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  15. #415
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Yeah, yeah. I get it, Mark. You don't have to copy/pasta the statutes (that we all know don't always get enforced )

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  16. #416
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Anytime I see someone use the word "snowflake" outside of a meteorological context, I immediately want to blow my fucking brains out. For the sake of gun related violence, FUCKING STOP IT! YOU'RE MAKING YOURSELF SOUND LIKE A GOD DAMN FUCKING DOUCHE BAG SHIT FUCK FUCK SHIT!
    Luxurious verbiage, fucking love it!

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  17. #417
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  18. #418
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Understood. I pretty much said that. I still wonder if there's a way it could work. Could the burden of membership proof be left to private sellers and gun stores? It becomes somewhat of a trust system, but that way there is some lose circle of people who agree this person's not an asshole. A system of 'police your own'?

    That aside, does this mean you believe anyone should be able to own a gun? Or are you willing to concede that there is some degree of mental illness which would surrender that right? I don't want the government determining which mental health issues give away a right. But I think there's definitely some people on the far end of mentally unstable who shouldn't have access to weapons.
    I'm okay with full due process. A person convicted of a crime for which loss of various rights (arms, voting, prohibition of certain jobs, etc.) is an appropriate part of sentencing, fine. A person who has been adjudicated, using full due process, as being incompetent to manage his own affairs, and who has duly been provided with a legal guardian, yes, fine with that, too. Everyone else, still has his/her individual rights as a human being, including the right to keep and bear arms.

    So yes, I do agree that there are some people who are unstable enough that they shouldn't be allowed to have guns. But that determination, which is a loss of individual human rights, must not be able to be made on a whim, on an opinion, without full due process.

    PhilB

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  19. #419
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    ...incentivize states to send more information about criminal histories to the system, known as NICS. States usually arenít required to do so, unless their own laws mandate it or they have to do so to receive federal funding.

    It would also make sure that federal agencies follow through on their own requirement that they send information to the database. The new plan would beef up the federal mandate and include punishments for agencies that donít comply, according to one of the sources.
    Nice to see Congress considering a measure to hold these agencies accountable. Rather infuriating that it takes a measure like this to do so.

    I for one wholeheartedly support something like this. All while being rather disgusted that it takes $$$ to bribe States into participating.

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  20. #420
    Grizzly Fuckin Adams dhuze's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Try doing it in Lowell....You applied in a green town and you're white.

    I love how state law requires them to act within 40 days but they say it takes 3 months

    ........................................................................... .........................................................................

    All Forms of License to Carry (LTC)............
    This is what happens when a law has no penalty. If speeding had no penalty everyone would drive as fast as they could all day long. These laws need to have repercussions for the violating party.

    Here in RI if the Chief of Police does not act in the time frame or gets sued for a not doing his job he is held liable for for all court costs. Not the town or state. The money has to come from his pocket.

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  21. #421
    Lifer eboos's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Somehow we traveled back in time 10 years. This same thing was supposed to be done after the Virginia Tech shooting.

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  22. #422
    Lifer ZX-12R's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    More details on the guy from California: Police knew 'madman' had guns before killing rampage

    Synopsis:
    History of mental health issues
    Charged with illegally firing a weapon and illegal possession back in January
    Out on bail for stabbing his neighbor
    Restraining order against him because of the stabbing
    Threatened 2 female neighbors which resulted in a protective order against him
    He surrendered his firearms in February but police recovered two homemade rifles and two handguns registered to someone else

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  23. #423
    Lifer LuvDog's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX-12R View Post
    More details on the guy from California: Police knew 'madman' had guns before killing rampage

    Synopsis:
    History of mental health issues
    Charged with illegally firing a weapon and illegal possession back in January
    Out on bail for stabbing his neighbor
    Restraining order against him because of the stabbing
    Threatened 2 female neighbors which resulted in a protective order against him
    He surrendered his firearms in February but police recovered two homemade rifles and two handguns registered to someone else
    A criminal broke more laws?


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  24. #424
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Anytime I see someone use the word "snowflake" outside of a meteorological context, I immediately want to blow my fucking brains out. For the sake of gun related violence statistics (as well as my personal well being), FUCKING STOP IT! YOU'RE MAKING YOURSELF SOUND LIKE A GOD DAMN FUCKING DOUCHE BAG SHIT FUCK FUCK SHIT FUCK!
    Others to include in this: Sheeple, Beta, Cuck, Libtard

    I feel like this should have it's own thread.

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  25. #425
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Give up Your Guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    Others to include in this: Sheeple, Beta, Cuck, Libtard

    I feel like this should have it's own thread.
    I feel like we also need a controversial topics pix and memes thread. a thread for pics and memes only with no bickering.

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