Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 40 of 40

John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

  1. #26
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???


    Originally posted by bigred875
    And to say they are all liars is a cop out... There is difference in playing politics and flat out lieing...that seems to be the confusion...and I dont agree with either...

    But to say that W went to war based on a lie...IS A LIE!!! PERIOD END OF STORY...it is left wing propaganda..if you beleive it you are a victim...
    OK, let me restate then. The gravest decision a president can make is to take this country to war. I don't believe the president considered that decision with the dignity and seriousness it deserves. War is supposed to be a LAST resort, and I don't consider that it was a last resort in this case. I am willing to cut him some slack on false intel IF AND ONLY IF he's willing to stand up and say "Guess what, the intel was wrong, but I still think it was right to go to war for X, Y and Z". Isn't believing false intel (SPECIFICALLY when it leads this country into a long drawn out costly war) a mistake? And if it is, why then is the only mistake this president is willing to admit the mistake of "a few judicial appointments" (the presidents words directly in the debate). I would ALMOST be willing to vote for this president if he could do this one little thing, admit that he is fallible and made a mistake, one of the gravest mistakes a president can make. I'd be totally willing to move on on this point if that were the case.

    Do I think G.W. was lieing to take the nation to war? No. Do I think he made a big fucking huge honking giant ass mistake? Yes. And if he'd admit it, I'd be willing to move on. You were the one claiming time and time again, in post after post, that "we are going to find the WMD, just wait and see" (do I have to drudge up your countless posts with wording to this effect?). Now its YOU that sounds like an RNC bumper sticker. "We will find WMD. Oh wait, Its a war of liberation. What? We didn't screw up, it all happened how we meant it to!"

    Part of my definition of a "man of honor" (a key characteristic that I find to be most important in a president) is that he will stand up and admit his mistakes. You absolutely can't learn from a mistake if you can't even admit it happened. I was just as pissed at Clinton for not admitting his mistake as I am at G.W. for not admitting his.

    Originally posted by bigred875

    and thanks hohum for linking me to a site I have bookmarked and check all the time and have for months

    Why dont you check out what they have to say with another popular lie teh DNC like to spread...the link between Saddam Hussein and Al-qeda
    You mean this one: http://www.factcheck.org/article203.html

    Where they say that Iraq and Al-Qaeda at most were loosly connected, and that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11?

    From factcheck.org

    Bin Ladin also explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan, despite his opposition to Hussein's secular regime. Bin Ladin had in fact at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded Bin Ladin to cease this support and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda. A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting Bin Ladin in 1994. Bin Ladin is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded. There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after Bin Ladin had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior Bin Ladin associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  2. #27
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by The KING


    I could jump into this pit, but I'm pretty sore from 4-wheeling this past Sunday...

    Yeah, I thought you needed some EXCITEMENT

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  3. #28
    Littering and........
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    7,231

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by hohum
    [B]OK, let me restate then. The gravest decision a president can make is to take this country to war. I don't believe the president considered that decision with the dignity and seriousness it deserves. War is supposed to be a LAST resort, and I don't consider that it was a last resort in this case. I am willing to cut him some slack on false intel IF AND ONLY IF he's willing to stand up and say "Guess what, the intel was wrong, but I still think it was right to go to war for X, Y and Z". Isn't believing false intel (SPECIFICALLY when it leads this country into a long drawn out costly war) a mistake? And if it is, why then is the only mistake this president is willing to admit the mistake of "a few judicial appointments" (the presidents words directly in the debate). I would ALMOST be willing to vote for this president if he could do this one little thing, admit that he is fallible and made a mistake, one of the gravest mistakes a president can make. I'd be totally willing to move on on this point if that were the case.

    Do I think G.W. was lieing to take the nation to war? No. Do I think he made a big fucking huge honking giant ass mistake? Yes. And if he'd admit it, I'd be willing to move on. You were the one claiming time and time again, in post after post, that "we are going to find the WMD, just wait and see" (do I have to drudge up your countless posts with wording to this effect?). Now its YOU that sounds like an RNC bumper sticker. "We will find WMD. Oh wait, Its a war of liberation. What? We didn't screw up, it all happened how we meant it to!"

    Part of my definition of a "man of honor" (a key characteristic that I find to be most important in a president) is that he will stand up and admit his mistakes. You absolutely can't learn from a mistake if you can't even admit it happened. I was just as pissed at Clinton for not admitting his mistake as I am at G.W. for not admitting his.
    Thats what I'm saying.

    Edit: Except for the part about Clinton. If Bush wants to get an intern to grease his weasel, I'm all for that.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  4. #29
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Actually, I hope Bush doesn't ever give the mea culpa speach, becuase if he did, I think he'd win by a landslide. Talk about an October suprise... if Bush made a nice eloquent prime time speach to the line of:
    "It turns out there are no WMD in Iraq, and I/we/the Congress of this United States made a mistake in that assessment, but the war was a just war, a right war, and the newly free Iraqi people will thank us..."

    This election would be his... Think about how many moderates this would bring to the fold!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  5. #30
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by The KING
    ok, i'm gonna straighten out the fools...

    see, i love the way everyone cries, "proof". Proof!!! We NEED PROOF!!!

    <snip>blah blah blah blah blah</snip>
    And if you use that same criteria, we should be invading all sorts of countries. North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan... the list goes on and on. AND THIS IS WHY YOU ARE A SCARY MOTHERFUCKER!


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  6. #31
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by The KING
    Then take into account alliances between nations, etc.
    As if this president cares one whit about alliances between nations. The only alliances he cares to maintain are with those countries who agree with us/him ("either you are with us or you are against us"). Disagree with us, and well you are just a "sympathiser of the enemy", no matter what the points you make.

    We jumped right into war this time, whats to prevent the same type of assinine mistake if we aren't even willing to admit the first mistake?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  7. #32
    Lifer odduc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    NH
    Age
    53
    Posts
    2,128

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Part of my definition of a "man of honor" (a key characteristic that I find to be most important in a president) is that he will stand up and admit his mistakes. You absolutely can't learn from a mistake if you can't even admit it happened. I was just as pissed at Clinton for not admitting his mistake as I am at G.W. for not admitting his.
    I agree with this. But, I also agree with red in that the only reason Bush has not apologized is because the DNC would use that against him in this election. You have to admit that the DNC are getting a whole lot of mileage out of even the smallest presidential gaffes.

    But, I also think that if someone thinks that "honor" is an important quality for a President, they ought to reconsider their choice of John Kerry. He has NEVER apologized for the harm he did to Vietnam veterans and POWs. He continues to perpetuate one lie after another. That, IMHO, is NOT a man of honor.

    I think that when(that's right) President Bush is re-elected, we will hear a forthcoming statement from him that may cause some of the haters to respect him, once again.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    LRRS#167

  8. #33
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by The KING
    it was with respect to tactics on dealing with the other nations, NOT, with respect to OUR alliances... like I said, quick and direty, i really don't have time for epic compositions...

    still doesn't change the fact you seem to think we'd handle each case in "cookie cutter" fashion...
    I don't suggest we are likely to handly each situation in a cookie cutter fashion, but I do suggest that this president won't hesitate to make war in situations where diplomacy is more appropriate.

    He has already proved he's willing to use war as a pre-emptive action, which by its very definition means not as a last resort. I certainly don't need any more proof (given two wars during the first term) that more war with more enemies is in our future with this president.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  9. #34
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Manvile, RI
    Posts
    8,115

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by hohum
    OK, let me restate then. The gravest decision a president can make is to take this country to war. I don't believe the president considered that decision with the dignity and seriousness it deserves. War is supposed to be a LAST resort, and I don't consider that it was a last resort in this case. I am willing to cut him some slack on false intel IF AND ONLY IF he's willing to stand up and say "Guess what, the intel was wrong, but I still think it was right to go to war for X, Y and Z". Isn't believing false intel (SPECIFICALLY when it leads this country into a long drawn out costly war) a mistake? And if it is, why then is the only mistake this president is willing to admit the mistake of "a few judicial appointments" (the presidents words directly in the debate). I would ALMOST be willing to vote for this president if he could do this one little thing, admit that he is fallible and made a mistake, one of the gravest mistakes a president can make. I'd be totally willing to move on on this point if that were the case.

    Do I think G.W. was lieing to take the nation to war? No. Do I think he made a big fucking huge honking giant ass mistake? Yes. And if he'd admit it, I'd be willing to move on. You were the one claiming time and time again, in post after post, that "we are going to find the WMD, just wait and see" (do I have to drudge up your countless posts with wording to this effect?). Now its YOU that sounds like an RNC bumper sticker. "We will find WMD. Oh wait, Its a war of liberation. What? We didn't screw up, it all happened how we meant it to!"

    Part of my definition of a "man of honor" (a key characteristic that I find to be most important in a president) is that he will stand up and admit his mistakes. You absolutely can't learn from a mistake if you can't even admit it happened. I was just as pissed at Clinton for not admitting his mistake as I am at G.W. for not admitting his.



    You mean this one: http://www.factcheck.org/article203.html

    Where they say that Iraq and Al-Qaeda at most were loosly connected, and that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11?


    see this is the kind of position I can respect...and agree to disagree with

    You are right I WAS one of the ones sayin gwe will find them..I admit it..lol As each day goes by that seems to diminish....

    But I do wonder what happened to them....thats for sure..because they were there....


    And I dont want to get into the Saddam Al-Qeda thing...but it nice to see it went from no connection to loosely conntected..lol

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    From my experience, its the natural red heads (aka gingers) that have no soul--- I mean are crazy.

  10. #35
    IWOK Prez. bigred875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Manvile, RI
    Posts
    8,115

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by hohum
    Actually, I hope Bush doesn't ever give the mea culpa speach, becuase if he did, I think he'd win by a landslide. Talk about an October suprise... if Bush made a nice eloquent prime time speach to the line of:
    "It turns out there are no WMD in Iraq, and I/we/the Congress of this United States made a mistake in that assessment, but the war was a just war, a right war, and the newly free Iraqi people will thank us..."

    This election would be his... Think about how many moderates this would bring to the fold!
    I hear ya..lol

    I'm waiting for this speach as well...

    I hate playing politics....

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    From my experience, its the natural red heads (aka gingers) that have no soul--- I mean are crazy.

  11. #36
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by The KING
    The ONLY thing he MIGHT apologize for is with respect to WMD's, but most certainly, NOT the invasion.
    And thats all >I< would ask for... IF you believed the WMD evidence (which I did not from the start, and you can find plenty of posts to that effect), then the invasion was reasonable given the new security situation for our country. As such, all he would have to do is apologize for that to regain a whole TON of credibility in a whole LOT of peoples minds.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  12. #37
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by The KING
    yeah you did.

    "And if you use that same criteria, we should be invading all sorts of countries."

    OK, rephrase.

    "And if you use that same criteria, we should be starting war (which doesn't necessarily involve invasion) with all sorts of countries"

    Although, if you carry the logic through, if its justification for an invasion of Iraq its certainly justification for invasion of a few of those countries on my list (Sudan, Syria... ya know, the little ones noone cars about )

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  13. #38
    the phear hohum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Everett, MA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,274

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by lrrs167
    I agree with this. But, I also agree with red in that the only reason Bush has not apologized is because the DNC would use that against him in this election. You have to admit that the DNC are getting a whole lot of mileage out of even the smallest presidential gaffes.
    Yes, the DNC would desperately try to leverage this, but if I were Karl Rove, I'd be telling the president to stand up for his statements, and say it was the honorable thing to do. I think it would still hold water with moderates and given that hard core dems aren't gonna be swung over, thats all it would take... It would be risky, but that kind risk really engenders respect, and it would diffuse sooooooo many of the DNC's arguments (while of course opening up a new line of attack)

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    But when we ride very fast motorcycles, we ride with immaculate sanity. We might abuse a substance here and there, but only when it's right. The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles.


  14. #39
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rye, NH
    Age
    47
    Posts
    2,528

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    I don't really care whether or not Saddam had WMDs, even though John Kerry told me they were there and it was an imminent threat.

    If the war was really about oil...fine with me. So let's take over the fields already!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    2003 Yamaha R6
    1999 Yamaha YZ400



  15. #40
    Littering and........
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    7,231

    John Kerry and the facts AGAIN???

    Originally posted by bentbryan
    I don't really care whether or not Saddam had WMDs, even though John Kerry told me they were there and it was an imminent threat.

    If the war was really about oil...fine with me. So let's take over the fields already!

    LOL.....John Kerry sucks.

    And yeah, when are we going to see some money from those f'n oil fields????

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. John Kerry HUNTING????
    By Karaya One in forum Controversial Topics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-24-04, 11:33 AM
  2. John Kerry - Man of the People!
    By Karaya One in forum Controversial Topics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-20-04, 12:23 PM
  3. John Kerry Osama Bin Ladin
    By richw in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-12-04, 01:16 PM
  4. Letter to John Kerry
    By telefonicagsxr in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-02-04, 08:05 PM
  5. Howie Carr on John Kerry
    By bigred875 in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-07-04, 02:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •