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Johnson-Weld?

  1. #76
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?


    Yep. Ron Paul always did well with the troops, too. They know a libertarian is a lot less likely to senselessly waste their lives in places we have no business being in.

    PhilB

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    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
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  2. #77
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Trump is less war hawk then Hillary

    Having a business sense wars are wasteful of our military and as we DO NOT get anything out of it
    why would you do it

    Time to do what is good for US of A and our economy, then you have the wealth to do other stuff

    Everything but a vote for Trump is a vote for the Hillbeast

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    Last edited by Stromper; 07-30-16 at 06:53 AM.
    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  3. #78
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    Everything but a vote for Trump is a vote for the Hillbeast



    I will agree that a vote for Johnson is not a vote for Trump, but tell us exactly how voting for Johnson is a vote for Clinton ?

    would you rather see people not vote at all? neither Trump or Clinton are qualified to be president imho

    Trump is too unpredictable and has no experience, government is not a business entity and cannot be run like a business, Clinton is dangerously predictable, and everything will be same ole same ole, dweedle deedle dumb like she's Nixon or Humphrey back in '68

    Both Johnson and Weld have executive experience as popular Republican Governors in Democratic states, both were reelected by wider margins in their reelection , than their initial election to office, both left office with their states in better shape than when they went into office

    The choice is easy to see who is most qualified

    Fear mongering is not going to get Trump any more votes

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    RandyO
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  4. #79
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    No, my vote for Gary Johnson isn’t wasted — Medium
    No, my vote for Gary Johnson isn’t wasted
    Neither is yours, and shame on anyone saying it is

    This message was tentatively titled “Fuck the Haters; Feel the Johnson,” but then I thought, well, maybe leading with “fuck” sets an adversarial tone.

    And that’s the thing: I’m not here to fight. In an election cycle uglier than any I can remember, aren’t you weary of the vitriol polluting this year’s campaign trails? I am.

    Republican neighbor and Democrat colleague, I don’t want to sling mud at either of you, and I’m not your adversary. Conservative Christian relatives and progressive feminist friends, I don’t want us to scream at each other about politics, even when we disagree. That’s not my style. For most of the time I’ve been eligible to vote, I’ve kept pretty quiet about politics. At first, it was because I was finding my way, and lately, it’s because as a Libertarian, my non-interventionist policy extends to things like social gatherings and political debates on Facebook.

    I don’t go looking for a fight. But this week, the fight knocked on my virtual door and called me out.

    So I opened the door — and now I’m having a hard time closing it.

    A few days ago, I shared a link on Facebook encouraging people who are curious about Libertarian Presidential candidate Gary Johnson to sign a petition that calls for Governor Johnson’s inclusion in the Presidential debates. The post included a quote from Gov. Johnson:

    “I hope that people will see that we don’t have to sit by the sidelines and watch as the two major parties limit their choices to slightly different flavors of the status quo. It is, in fact, possible to join the fray, stand up for principles and offer a real alternative.”

    About an hour later, an acquaintance started a post of her own discussing how upset she is to see third-party candidates appearing in her feed, because she’s concerned that these voters will somehow end up propelling Donald Trump into the White House. The ensuing conversation was civil enough, but the common theme was:

    “You third-party dreamers are just throwing your votes away.”

    Fuck. That. Noise.

    Look, if you genuinely believe Hillary Clinton is the best choice on the ballot and would make a good President, vote for her. Same goes for Donald Trump. Use the tools at your disposal to spread their messages to other voters.

    But if you’re here to talk about how I’m “throwing my vote away” or even “stealing” a vote from your candidate, please take a whole row of seats.

    Let’s talk about “stealing” votes first.

    Wait, let’s not, because it isn’t a thing. Those votes don’t belong to your candidate, or any other candidate, until they are cast.

    Do third-party candidates — and their voters — affect elections? Yes. That’s the point. This brand of political hand-wringing isn’t new; it is, in fact, one of my earliest political memories. Remember that time 19% of Americans voted for Ross Perot?

    Let’s be clear: these votes aren’t stolen, nor are they wasted.

    Americans do not throw their votes away by casting them for candidates whose policies they support.

    They do, however, throw their votes away when they let bullies scare them into voting based on the false dichotomy of the modern political establishment.

    Americans waste their votes when they give up and stay home. They throw their votes away by choosing a candidate they see as the “lesser of two evils” when faced with a ballot that this year, in all 50 states, contains a third alternative.

    I’ve been there, trying to do the mental gymnastics required to choose to support someone because they aren’t as bad as the other guy.

    So in 2012, I voted for Gary Johnson.

    That year, the Johnson/Gray Libertarian ticket earned 1.27 million votes. That’s about 1% of the popular vote — nearly equivalent to the population of my entire state.

    That’s 1.27 million Americans who spoke with their vote, asking for a real change.

    This year, Gary Johnson (with running mate Bill Weld) is polling in the double digits. Without mass media coverage, without screaming about building walls, the Libertarian candidates and their ideals are gaining traction among more and more American voters. Americans are standing up and saying they’ve had enough. Enough debt, war, corruption and fear-mongering. Americans are demanding a better alternative than the Republicans and Democrats are offering them.

    This November, we the people have the opportunity to vote for a candidate who wants to balance the budget, stop spying on Americans, end the failed war on drugs, clean up the criminal justice system, defend the Constitution, reform immigration, and let you live as a free American.

    I won’t throw my vote away this November. I’ll vote for Gov. Gary Johnson.

    If it disturbs you, hide me.

    But if it intrigues you? Check out #TeamGov’s positions on the issues here.

    They might surprise you.

    And so might this election.

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  5. #80
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    First my point is always

    You don't have to know what Trump might do, you only have to know what Hillary will do

    If nothing more than 5 FAR LEFT ideologue supreme court justices will burn your constitution and your freedoms

    Its simple numbers

    There are MORE registered democrats than republicans so Trump needs to pull from independents etc. The loyal democrats
    will pull the lever for the Hillbeast even though they say she is a corrupt liar elites

    So Trump needs the vote of EVERYONE who believes in the USA and personal freedom

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    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  6. #81
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    First my point is always

    You don't have to know what Trump might do, you only have to know what Hillary will do

    If nothing more than 5 FAR LEFT ideologue supreme court justices will burn your constitution and your freedoms

    Its simple numbers

    There are MORE registered democrats than republicans so Trump needs to pull from independents etc. The loyal democrats
    will pull the lever for the Hillbeast even though they say she is a corrupt liar elites

    So Trump needs the vote of EVERYONE who believes in the USA and personal freedom
    You're forgetting that some democrats are jumping ship and considering voting for someone else this year. There's a lot of flow between "parties" right now.

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  7. #82
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Best opportunity to bust out of this death spiral ever. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste it.
    Waste it by voting for Trump?! Are you out of your mind?! Ha! Fuck that!

    Johnson baybe. It's gonna be a landslide!

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  8. #83
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    First my point is always

    You don't have to know what Trump might do, you only have to know what Hillary will do

    If nothing more than 5 FAR LEFT ideologue supreme court justices will burn your constitution and your freedoms

    Its simple numbers

    There are MORE registered democrats than republicans so Trump needs to pull from independents etc. The loyal democrats
    will pull the lever for the Hillbeast even though they say she is a corrupt liar elites

    So Trump needs the vote of EVERYONE who believes in the USA and personal freedom
    No. You are a big reason why any educated thoughtful person would NOT vote for Drumpf. Your doomsday prophecies about the other candidates and lack of criticality to your homeboy scream "rooting for my sports team", not what is best for our country.

    You lie in the bed you make, Rich. I called you out on your bullshit arguments time and time again. Now you get to see how people you had the opportunity to influence (well, probably not) have avoided anyone you are for due to your complete inability to debate or argue like a civilized adult.

    Johnson 2016. Fuck Trump.

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  9. #84
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Good bye to your guns
    goodbye to talk radio
    hello to 30 trillion national debt
    goodbye pick up trucks
    hello to a 20% increase in taxes
    Hello to USA world police
    Hello to immigrant total amnesty and voting rights
    hello to cradle to grave total welfare
    hello single payer healthcare with a 10,000 co-pay

    Your right this all in my imagination based on nothing

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    Last edited by Stromper; 07-31-16 at 08:22 AM.
    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  10. #85
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    And with all that behind you, Trump is the BEST you can come up with? A man who publicly makes fun of a handicapped reporter and the parents of a Gold Star veteran?

    Shameful.

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    -Clayton
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  11. #86
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    He's got the 'R' next to his name. He must be okay.

    There is some next level fud going on here.

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  12. #87
    Lifer snwbrdr435's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    Good bye to your guns
    goodbye to talk radio
    hello to 30 trillion national debt
    goodbye pick up trucks
    hello to a 20% increase in taxes
    Hello to USA world police
    Hello to immigrant total amnesty and voting rights
    hello to cradle to grave total welfare
    hello single payer healthcare with a 10,000 co-pay

    Your right this all in my imagination based on nothing
    Good then I'm sick of pussy footing around let's just get down to properly fucking everything up

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  13. #88
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Johnson-Weld?-fb_img_1469986821077-jpg

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  14. #89
    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    Your right this all in my imagination based on nothing
    Just like your death panels. Still posting about political stuff though. They're going to get you.

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  15. #90
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?


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  16. #91
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    It's really discouraging to learn that the big tv debates...worth hundreds of millions of dollars...are controlled by private entities who want nothing more than to stomp out any candidates not nominated by the R or D parties.

    Johnson would kill it against Hillary and Trump, which is all the more reason for those private entities to do everything in their power to make sure it doesn't happen. Kudos to CNN for giving the libertarians some more much needed airtime.

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  17. #92
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    I voted for Gary last election, for many of the same reasons. I didn't buy a shred of O's "Hope and Change" (hard to buy, coming from a guy that came through Chicago politics).

    The point with Gary for ME anyway, is less about his ideals and more about how utterly vital it is to gain sufficient votes for Federal 3rd party financing. That is the #1 thing that someone's personal "wasted" vote can possibly accomplish in this election. He won't win (sorry guys, he just... won't), but if he gets 15% of the votes it will transform national politics in this country.

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  18. #93
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    if he gets 15% of the votes it will transform national politics in this country.
    Im not up to speed on how federal dollars are allocated to candidates, but my understanding of why Johnson wants 15% (in the polls he's not even included in) is because that's the number that would currently allow him to be featured in the tv debates. But the 15% rule was instituted BY THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES after Ross Perot made a huge splash, which implies that the rule could be changed again...in other words, if Johnson gets to 16% in the polls, next election the republican and democratic committees who pay for the tv debates can just say that it takes 25% in the polls for any third or fourth party to get in the debates.

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  19. #94
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    We're confusing 15% poling (to get in the debates) and 5% of the popular vote to qualify for federal election funding.

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  20. #95
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    True, he needs 15% in polls for debates, the 5% threshold of votes received was what I was talking about. Apologies for confusing the two!

    My point still stands, that 5% of votes is far more important than any policy debate you could point to.... since all of those are hyperbole anyway and won't impact the strangle hold financial interests have on BOTH parties.

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    CCS/LRRS #83

  21. #96
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    We're confusing 15% poling (to get in the debates) and 5% of the popular vote to qualify for federal election funding.
    Exactly. There are several points that can be achieved here.

    5% of the popular vote to qualify federally as a "major party" will remove a lot of barriers. I think this will happen.
    15% on 5 major polls to qualify for the debates. This could well happen.
    Depending on the state, getting somewhere between 5% and 10% of the vote can qualify the LP to automatically be on the ballots in that state in the future. This could happen, and it would be huge if they can get that in a bunch of states this time.

    A lot of the money and effort that parties other than the R and D have to spend goes to just getting on the ballots in every state. That goes by rules set by each state government, but all of those state governments are run by R and D parties and they always set the bar below themselves, but above everyone else. The effect, in every state, is that the R and D parties are on the ballots automatically, and all the other parties have to put in huge efforts to even be able to be voted for. The LP expects to be on the ballots in all 50 states, but they're still working on a few, and it is taking most of their money and effort to get there. That's a huge handicap, imposed completely unfairly by the Big Two. The Green and Constitution parties, despite their best efforts, will both be lucky to qualify for the ballot in half the states.

    The LP has been around consistently fielding candidates for 45 years. The Green Party has been doing so for over 30 years, and the Constitution Party for more than 20. There is no rational doubt that these are legitimately political parties. All three should automatically be on the ballots, everywhere. That they aren't is nothing more than corruption.

    PhilB

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    Last edited by PhilB; 08-01-16 at 09:05 PM.
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
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  22. #97
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    True, he needs 15% in polls for debates, the 5% threshold of votes received was what I was talking about. Apologies for confusing the two!

    My point still stands, that 5% of votes is far more important than any policy debate you could point to.... since all of those are hyperbole anyway and won't impact the strangle hold financial interests have on BOTH parties.
    The reason that the debates matter is quite simply exposure. There are a lot of Americans who still don't even know the LP exists. There's a huge number that know it exists but have no idea (or very wrong ideas) about what it stands for. And a lot of people vote based on their perception of the chances and legitimacy of a party. Being in the debates will be a huge boost in all of those factors, and would be a great help in getting enough votes to get over those other thresholds.

    PhilB

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    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
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  23. #98
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    I can't even imagine how many MILLIONS of voters, literally, would be watching a tv debate if Johnson were allowed in, who would be snorting and throwing stuff at the tv while Hillary and Trump were talking, and then nodding and saying, "fucking A right, who IS this guy!?" when Johnson would speak.

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  24. #99
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    I find it very telling that the ore liberal minded of people I know (the one's who didn't delete me anyway) have slowed their roll on bashing Trump directly and are now posting stuff on how a 3rd party vote is a vote for Trump. A little scared are they?

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    Last edited by e30addict; 08-01-16 at 12:39 PM.
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  25. #100
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Johnson-Weld?

    It's very funny how both sides are arguing that a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for the "other" turrible candidate.

    "I don't really agree with [Stalin] but they'll get my vote because I don't want [Hitler] to be president."

    Substitute as you will.

    Still true...
    Just a reminder, when Libertarians said "If Hitler ran against Stalin for US president, one of them would win", it wasn't a challenge.

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    Last edited by jasnmar; 08-01-16 at 03:03 PM.

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