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Las Vegas

  1. #126
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas


    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    what if you hit the deck like most instinctive humans do in a situation like that?
    as I said, it's pretty romantic that most firearm carriers think they're going to do something heroic.
    I'm not trying to say I'm any better, but I'm pretty honest with the human situation.
    Of course I'm probably hitting the deck. But if I have any amount of concealment, I'm also drawing and preparing to defend myself and others. It's not romantic to be prepared. Shit happens. I'd rather have a small chance than no chance.

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  2. #127
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    There’s an infinite number of shit that could happen to anyone at any given time. To carry all the tools all the time is just plain ridiculous. The number of times a gun is going to be useful (and lawful) to Joe Public is really pretty rare. The amount of times Joe Public is going to react appropriately and use said weapon appropriately and effectively is even rarer, imo. Hence: romance. If you don’t like that, I’m sorry. I’m just calling it like I see it.

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  3. #128
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Sure View Post
    Paul are you serious or is it major sarcasm? I can't tell.
    Yes.


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  4. #129
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    There are a lot of Walter Mitty's who seems to believe that meeting the minimum carrying regulations and carrying a sidearm will increase their odds of survival and maybe even heroism in everything from a convenience store robbery to a mass shooting.

    Too many movies watched.

    If I had grown up around gun, spent significant time in the military training with guns and continued to actively train for specific scenarios, I might feel that my odds are better than average, but 5 times almost zero is still a small number.

    Despite the fact that a soup can doesn't stand a chance against my .177 air rifle at 30 yards, I know that with anything more deadly in any situation outside my rural backyard, against any opponent other than Campbell or Progresso, I would be a danger to myself and others.

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    Last edited by SteveM; 10-07-17 at 06:45 AM.

  5. #130
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    CCW effective in Vegas? Seriously? You must be joking if you think someone is going pull their "piece" and fire at a window 300 yards away

    There stories that come out all the time. It's not typically plastered over the news like the bad shit is, particularly in this area.

    There are several Reddit threads about them and stuff is also listed in several different firearm publications. It happens plenty, more so than mass shootings, but they don't fur the narrative.

    Not that I think you really care, but this thread certainly doesn't paint the romantic picture you seem to want to project on everyone.

    [Serious] People who've had to kill others in self defence, how was it like? How's life now, and what kind of aftermath followed? : AskReddit
    Someone shoots and kills and intruder, kills someone in self defense, itís always on the news. The local news. The same thing happens when a toddler gets ahold of their parentís loaded weapon and kills them self or their sibling. Itís local news. Also the same thing when Good Samaritan thwarts a convenience store robbery, local news. Just like individual instances of gang violence resulting in death, local news.

    We get it. You have fantasies about justifiably killing some ďhoodĒ who came to take what youíve worked so hard for. Tell me, does that fantasy always end in someone throwing you and your gun a parade?


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  6. #131
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    I was more honing in on your comment about dishonesty and me supposedly not allowing people to have an opinion. It's dangerous to weigh false perspectives as if they were factual and that's really what I was getting at. I was also focusing on the gun specific side of the debate.

    I agree about the mental health part but my struggle with the issue is that it's tremendously complex and I'm not sure what can really be done. Food for thought though...Check out my earlier post regarding the article written by the anthropologist. There may be some cultural elements fueling the mental health issue.

    AEG's article was pretty insightful.
    The complexity of the issue is exactly why comprehensive scientific study needs to be done on gun deaths. One of the biggest bitches you hear from the pro-gun crowd is that the number of gun deaths per year is a skewed figure because the majority are suicide. Itís a fair point but the root cause of that statistic lacking context was caused by the pro-gun lobby prohibiting federal funding for gun research and study. Howís that for irony?

    The Dickey amendment needs to be repealed immediately. Itís time for Americans to face this problem head on in the exact nature it is described by pro-gunners; in a non-emotional, rational manner. That, folks, means actual scientific research and an end to this ridiculous pontificating on both sides.


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  7. #132
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    There are a lot of Walter Mitty's who seems to believe that meeting the minimum carrying regulations and carrying a sidearm will increase their odds of survival and maybe even heroism in everything from a convenience store robbery to a mass shooting.

    Too many movies watched.

    If I had grown up around gun, spent significant time in the military training with guns and continued to actively train for specific scenarios, I might feel that my odds are better than average, but 5 times almost zero is still a small number.

    Despite the fact that a soup can doesn't stand a chance against my .177 air rifle at 30 yards, I know that with anything more deadly in any situation outside my rural backyard, against any opponent other than Campbell or Progresso, I would be a danger to myself and others.
    Apparently I live under a rock. I had no idea what/who Walter Mitty was.

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  8. #133
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    There’s an infinite number of shit that could happen to anyone at any given time. To carry all the tools all the time is just plain ridiculous. The number of times a gun is going to be useful (and lawful) to Joe Public is really pretty rare. The amount of times Joe Public is going to react appropriately and use said weapon appropriately and effectively is even rarer, imo. Hence: romance. If you don’t like that, I’m sorry. I’m just calling it like I see it.
    In almost 20 years of driving, I've never needed my seat belt, but you better believe I always wear it. The chance of my house catching on fire is very slim, but I have a fire extinguisher just in case. Call it whatever you like, romance, whatever. I have to have a license just to keep them in my home, so throwing my handgun in my zip up pocket isn't exactly burdensome on time or weight. I don't carry much these days because I cannot carry at, or even to, work.

    Our active shooter drill on the military base is to lock the doors(which are mostly glass that could be broken and walked through), and hide.

    If you agree that the situations where being armed would be beneficial are so extremely rare, then why are we even having this conversation? It's obviously not something we need to worry about...

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  9. #134
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Because somebody insisted it wasn’t a romantic notion.

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  10. #135
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Unfortunately other casualties of the ongoing American Revolution

    Yes I am sure statistically driving to an event is much more dangerous then going to events

    Most of these facts dont add up, there is a picture of a pink paper on a desk (no note?), certainly took some time to put this together question when he made his hotel reservation

    There was lots of time others to have left the room/s and 2 smashed open windows?

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    Last edited by Stromper; 10-07-17 at 10:00 AM.
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  11. #136
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Because somebody insisted it wasn’t a romantic notion.
    Someone insisted that their opinion was different from yours? How dare they!?

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  12. #137
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    More than an opinion, but less than a fact.

    The discussion should not be binary,

    To me, it's about likelihood. We are smart to be prepared for the probable and the reasonably possible, but living in a constant state of preparedness for the extremely unlikely is madness,

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  13. #138
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post

    We get it. You have fantasies about justifiably killing some “hood” who came to take what you’ve worked so hard for. Tell me, does that fantasy always end in someone throwing you and your gun a parade?


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    No, I would prefer a go fund me for the legal defense...

    You either don't comprehend what I write or purposefully ignore it because I've said multiple times I hope to never be in a position where I need to pull a gun on someone, hood rat or otherwise.

    And yes, those positive events make the news, but they certainly don't dominate the news cycle when they occur. They get mentioned and then they fade into the background.

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  14. #139
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    ... To me, it's about likelihood. We are smart to be prepared for the probable and the reasonably possible, but living in a constant state of preparedness for the extremely unlikely is madness,
    We live in an extraordinarily safe time and place, more so than just about any other in history, or in the world today. I rarely feel the need to carry, but there are times and places where I think it is a reasonable safety precaution, like wearing a helmet or seatbelt or condom when appropriate is. I think it is *very* important to individual rights and liberty that a person be able to decide for himself when and where he (or she, especially) wants to take that extra step for personal protection.

    PhilB

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  15. #140
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    We live in an extraordinarily safe time and place, more so than just about any other in history, or in the world today. I rarely feel the need to carry, but there are times and places where I think it is a reasonable safety precaution, like wearing a helmet or seatbelt or condom when appropriate is. I think it is *very* important to individual rights and liberty that a person be able to decide for himself when and where he (or she, especially) wants to take that extra step for personal protection.



    PhilB
    Yes or No to the extent Pollard was able to decide he needed for himself?

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  16. #141
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    No, I would prefer a go fund me for the legal defense...

    You either don't comprehend what I write or purposefully ignore it because I've said multiple times I hope to never be in a position where I need to pull a gun on someone, hood rat or otherwise.

    And yes, those positive events make the news, but they certainly don't dominate the news cycle when they occur. They get mentioned and then they fade into the background.
    You have a huge gun boner. You also, much like the 7th grade horndog dancing with the pretty girl, tuck your boner up and behind your belt because you don't want anyone to see it and want people to have the impression that you've been there before.

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  17. #142
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by TwelveGaugeSage View Post
    Someone insisted that their opinion was different from yours? How dare they!?
    So now you’re trying to silence my opinion, because it’s different from yours? How dare you?
    Never did I say you didn’t have a right to bare arms. I’m just saying most (maybe you) aren’t capable of more than cosplay.

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  18. #143
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    You have a huge gun boner. You also, much like the 7th grade horndog dancing with the pretty girl, tuck your boner up and behind your belt because you don't want anyone to see it and want people to have the impression that you've been there before.
    Rather have a boner than a pussy so I guess I'm good with that at least.

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  19. #144
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Rather have a boner than a pussy so I guess I'm good with that at least.
    Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. George Zimmerman!!!

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  20. #145
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    Fuck off. I like guns. More accurately, I like how my fellow citizens' affinity for legal guns makes the entire US an extremely difficult population to ever control by force, by any power, no matter what happens, now and in the future. Kinda like our tinfoil hatted founding fathers, in that regard, ya know?
    The notion that the Second Amendment protects us from our government or a foreign invader might have been true in the late 18th century. The idea that it is true now is hard to accept with a straight face.

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  21. #146
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Rather have a boner than a pussy so I guess I'm good with that at least.
    This is probably the dumbest thing I’ve read today.
    I hope this is just a bad/dad joke.

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  22. #147
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Yes or No to the extent Pollard was able to decide he needed for himself?
    The risk of ANY freedom is that someone will decide wrongly and abuse that freedom. It is inevitable. There are only two approaches -- (a) allow the freedom, recognize that some will abuse it, and deal with those individuals individually, or (b) restrict the freedom for everyone in an attempt to control the chance of abuse. Only one of those approaches is consistent with individual human rights. The other leads to totalitarianism. I know which side I'm on, and why.

    PhilB

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  23. #148
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    The notion that the Second Amendment protects us from our government or a foreign invader might have been true in the late 18th century. The idea that it is true now is hard to accept with a straight face.
    It's still true, as much so as ever.

    Against a foreign invader, less so, but still it has been repeatedly shown in recent decades that guerilla resistance to even a modern army can be very effective. e.g. In the last 14+ years, we the U.S., with all our military prowess, have not managed to pacify and control Afghanistan.

    Against our own government, very much so. Armed civilians outnumber the military 50-to-1, and that's assuming no one in the military or National Guard sides with the people. There are millions of combat vets in the civilian populace who could organize and direct civilian militia if and when needed. And the government will be hampered by the need (a) to not turn the entire populace against them, and (b) to have something left to be in charge of afterward if they win. So, for example, the fact that our government has nukes is of very little relevance to the question of revolt or resistance; if he start nuking U.S. cities, they will have nothing left to have power over.

    PhilB

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  24. #149
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    It's still true, as much so as ever.

    Against a foreign invader, less so, but still it has been repeatedly shown in recent decades that guerilla resistance to even a modern army can be very effective. e.g. In the last 14+ years, we the U.S., with all our military prowess, have not managed to pacify and control Afghanistan.

    Against our own government, very much so. Armed civilians outnumber the military 50-to-1, and that's assuming no one in the military or National Guard sides with the people. There are millions of combat vets in the civilian populace who could organize and direct civilian militia if and when needed. And the government will be hampered by the need (a) to not turn the entire populace against them, and (b) to have something left to be in charge of afterward if they win. So, for example, the fact that our government has nukes is of very little relevance to the question of revolt or resistance; if he start nuking U.S. cities, they will have nothing left to have power over.

    PhilB
    They got drones and shit.

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  25. #150
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    I find it romantic, the notion of carrying a firearm for self defense. Unless one is carrying at the ready, ( I use that term in the tactical military sense) the idea that Joe homeowner can retrieve, load, and use a weapon in an instance of high stress like a break in is laughable. As is the notion that one could retrieve a holstered weapon and squeeze one off with a gun pointed in your face.
    There are certainly going to be examples of people doing just so, but I believe that to be the vast minority.
    No, it happens all the time. I have myself used guns to (a) prevent theft of my auto, and (b) repel an intruder in my home. I keep my handguns in safes, the main defense one is in a small safe with a 5-button lock -- with practice I can retrieve it quickly -- and I can and have done so quickly enough to defend my property when needed. I rarely carry, as I tend to travel in pretty safe areas, but when I do, I carry "at the ready" so it can be useful if/when needed. I know plenty of people who carry routinely, some concealed, some openly, and they are capable of defending themselves quickly if/when needed, in a variety of situations. Not all defense situations begin with the bad guy already having his gun to your head. Guns are currently used defensively to stop crimes hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of times a year in this country. To try to deny this is false and foolish.

    PhilB

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