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MMA/UFC

  1. #1
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
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    MMA/UFC


    Gonna go right to the 'controversial' cus I'm pretty sure this will go south almost instantly...

    Having said that, I'm keeping an open mind because I know there are a bunch of fans and maybe even participants here. So, educate me!

    What am I missing when I think that MMA or UFC matches are insanely, brutally dangerous and punishing to the competitors? I'm not really looking for a UFC vs Boxing analysis either. I think boxing is dangerous too....

    (Yeah....I know. Motorcycle racing and street riding is dangerous too. But I never set out on a street ride knowing that I will get the shit beat our of me.)

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    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
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  2. #2
    Just Registered JohnnyV's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    You're not really missing anything, it is dangerous and injuries do happen. I'm not sure I'd say "brutal" per-se, but yea broken noses, cracked ribs, concussions, it happens. It's part of the sport and the competitors know the risks and accept them.

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  3. #3
    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    There's a reason the word contact is used for contact sports...

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  4. #4
    Lifer tsorfas's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    I can't even agree with myself on this topic.

    Part of me things it's disgusting and animalistic to have people fight in cages like animals. (No different than the gladiators back in the ancient years). Sacrifice everything in the name of entertainment.

    The other part of me can't help but admire the mental and physical skill and effort it requires to be a champion in those sports. I have watched documentaries on people like Tyson and Ali and few recent ones and I have nothing but enormous respect for those guys and what they accomplished.

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  5. #5
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
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    Yeah Sav. I'm in the same boat....

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    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
    Muhammad Ali.

  6. #6
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    The only thing I find offensive about it is the way the UFC uses their fighters...mcgregor vs mendes, 2nd biggest gate in MGM history, largest mma pay per view ever, and apparently the fighters get peanuts out of it. The defending champ, ALDO, ""could've made" up to 4 million if he had shown. Meanwhile, big name boxers with less gate and less pay per view are getting paid 20 million.

    The UFC can say "take it or leave it," knowing that If the fighter chooses to pass, they can just create another star through their many avenues to do that.

    No need to type it all out here, it can be looked up, but there are actually a TON of things not allowed in UFC due to safety concerns under current rules. Guys still get pulverized but no one has been killed, yet (unlike boxing)

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  7. #7
    Lifer
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    I thought that was part of the marketing, that it was brutal and dangerous? I'm not sure I see a problem with that, long as you knew what you were getting in to. If that's your thing, more power to ya.

    It's not the steroid or concussion dilemma where you made a career choice with known risks, and found yourself suddenly forced to take much stronger risks or be jobless. Seems the risks with MMA and UFC are pretty up-front on entry (even if it does still face the same steroid dilemma).

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  8. #8
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Yep, dangerous. They choose to do this, no one is holding a gun to their heads. Risk versus rewards, you feel the reward compensates the risk, so be it. Not much different than robbing banks, risk and reward. Personally, I think the risk is greater than reward, but I couldn't fight my way out of a midget meth addiction support group meeting. It's all in how you look at it. As for getting milked by the UFC? Welcome to professional sports. The guys in other sports get beaten down and worn out, their spent carcasses are in general tossed to the side after 6 or so years of brutal beatings, illicit drug use (mostly pain meds), and leaving with head injuries that haunt them the rest of their lives. All for grabbing the entertainment buck. That said, I want Rousey to beat the hell out of me, then cuddle me afterwards...

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  9. #9
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    That said, I want Rousey to beat the hell out of me, then cuddle me afterwards...
    Not sure I need the hell beat out of me first but I agree with this statement!

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  10. #10
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    I want Rousey to beat the hell out of me, then cuddle me afterwards...
    LOL you might be interested in this:

    Ronda Rousey "A DO NOTHING BITCH" (DNB) - YouTube

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  11. #11
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    Yep, dangerous. They choose to do this, no one is holding a gun to their heads. Risk versus rewards, you feel the reward compensates the risk, so be it. Not much different than robbing banks, risk and reward. Personally, I think the risk is greater than reward, but I couldn't fight my way out of a midget meth addiction support group meeting. It's all in how you look at it. As for getting milked by the UFC? Welcome to professional sports. The guys in other sports get beaten down and worn out, their spent carcasses are in general tossed to the side after 6 or so years of brutal beatings, illicit drug use (mostly pain meds), and leaving with head injuries that haunt them the rest of their lives. All for grabbing the entertainment buck. That said, I want Rousey to beat the hell out of me, then cuddle me afterwards...
    As usual, I'm mostly in agreement with you. (No offense intended!) But it is different from robbing banks. Robbing banks is illegal in a effort to limit the number of people who will rob banks. Dueling is illegal to limit the number of people who are killed by guns. I still don't have a handle on the frequency or severity of the injuries incurred in UFC. If the average UFC fighter gets through most bouts without serious injury then more power to 'em. But based on what little I've seen I imagine that you have a pretty good shot of serious injury every time you step in the cage. For me, this is the crux. If my perception that the risk is unreasonably high, (nearly guaranteed serious injury to one or both fighters every bout or every other bout) is accurate, then I'm left to agree with my friend Roy....

    "It's a blood sport and another bastion of unmarketable skill...and wholly unnecessary. It promotes violence for it's own sake and as a goal, like American football, for our youth. Who pays the physical and emotional bills for chronic brain damage? We outlawed the armed duel because..."

    If I'm off base on the risk level then have at it.

    I know I sound like a 'nanny' but really, there is no limit to the the stupid things we'll do for the right money.

    I love the stunts the extreme sports guys are doing these days. Unbelievable stuff on bicycles, motorcycles, cars, skis, skateboards, etc. Stuff we would NEVER have even dreamed as possible. Even gymnastics has developed moves that wouldnt have even been considered 20 years ago. But in none of these high risk endeavors are maiming or harming someone else or one's self part of the objective. And they take serious precautions and do serious calculations to mitigate the risk. At the end of the day though, they have to make the attempt often with spectacular failure...and often ending with serious injury. But the objective is to complete the stunt and when they do, holy shit the bar gets raised again to an already nearly impossible level...

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    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
    Muhammad Ali.

  12. #12
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    I've already answered this, but: I find it LESS dangerous and 'brutal' than boxing. I agree in that I don't like they way they reimburse their undercards. They're at least working now on a ranking system rather than the old method, which seemed to be more of a '...this is a fight the people will pay to see...' system before. Although I suspect that has A LOT to do with their new (this year) contract with Fox Sports...

    In most MMA events, once you get knocked out, that it. Show's over. No standing counts, no saving by the bell...

    Non championship fights are only 3, 5-minute rounds. Championship fights are 5, 5-minute rounds...

    Fights can and are stopped if one of the fighters can no longer effectively defend himself, among other things...

    A great deal of fights are ended via submission. That is, one fighter essentially has the other in a position/hold whereas the fighter being held will 'tap out' (submit)...

    Before you make judgement on the sport, I highly suggest you familiarize yourself with the very simple rules (For UFC rules: Rules and Regulations - Unified Rules and Other MMA Regulations)

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  13. #13
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    LOL you might be interested in this:

    Ronda Rousey "A DO NOTHING BITCH" (DNB) - YouTube
    I'm extremely turned on now. I think I love her, or it's really meaningful lust...

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  14. #14
    Lifer
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    I know I sound like a 'nanny' but really, there is no limit to the the stupid things we'll do for the right money.
    Is your issue basically "bad role models for children"? If so, there's no shortage of that and it should be up to the parents to craft the general direction the kids look for inspiration.

    If its about adults who have a choice between shelf stocker at minimum wage, or getting beat for more money, where do you draw that line? Should all entertainment careers be required to be safe (whatever that is)? What happens if/when we discover that many musical entertainers die early from hypertension as a result of a demanding tour schedule?

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  15. #15
    Just Registered JohnnyV's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    I am close friends with a number of MMA fighters, two of whom have recently gone pro. I can tell you that I do not know anyone who lives a healthier lifestyle than these guys and girls. Yes, when they take a fight every couple months they will likely get banged up a bit but with diet, conditioning, mental preparedness that goes into every other day of their lives is remarkable.

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Is your issue basically "bad role models for children"? If so, there's no shortage of that and it should be up to the parents to craft the general direction the kids look for inspiration.

    If its about adults who have a choice between shelf stocker at minimum wage, or getting beat for more money, where do you draw that line? Should all entertainment careers be required to be safe (whatever that is)? What happens if/when we discover that many musical entertainers die early from hypertension as a result of a demanding tour schedule?

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  16. #16
    Lifer
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV View Post
    I am close friends with a number of MMA fighters, two of whom have recently gone pro. I can tell you that I do not know anyone who lives a healthier lifestyle than these guys and girls. Yes, when they take a fight every couple months they will likely get banged up a bit but with diet, conditioning, mental preparedness that goes into every other day of their lives is remarkable.
    That's great, but I'm not sure how that influences the point. They train so they can beat people up, and get beat up, with long term health risks. In a field that probably doesn't have a lot to offer for those over the age of 45. So I can see why some parents may not be excited about their kids focusing on that path. It's a pretty strong personal choice, as many parents might think choosing a socially accepted 'safe' career is soulless and terrible.

    My point is not whether they should be role models, but whether we should ban it just because some percentage of the population doesn't want them to be. Not everyone has the same life goals, and we should not be restricting adult lives for that reason.

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  17. #17
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    That's great, but I'm not sure how that influences the point. They train so they can beat people up, and get beat up, with long term health risks. In a field that probably doesn't have a lot to offer for those over the age of 45. So I can see why some parents may not be excited about their kids focusing on that path. It's a pretty strong personal choice, as many parents might think choosing a socially accepted 'safe' career is soulless and terrible.
    Playing the devil's advocate for a second.. you could just as easily be describing an NHL or NFL career.

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  18. #18
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Land of the free.

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  19. #19
    Just Registered JohnnyV's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    That's great, but I'm not sure how that influences the point. They train so they can beat people up, and get beat up, with long term health risks. In a field that probably doesn't have a lot to offer for those over the age of 45. So I can see why some parents may not be excited about their kids focusing on that path. It's a pretty strong personal choice, as many parents might think choosing a socially accepted 'safe' career is soulless and terrible.

    My point is not whether they should be role models, but whether we should ban it just because some percentage of the population doesn't want them to be. Not everyone has the same life goals, and we should not be restricting adult lives for that reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    Playing the devil's advocate for a second.. you could just as easily be describing an NHL or NFL career.
    Joe Lauzon from Brockton, who fights for the UFC, also has a degree in comp sci and has a career in IT in Boston. A large number of fighters have second careers that either run in parallel or are paused while at the peak of their fighting careers.

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  20. #20
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Is your issue basically "bad role models for children"? If so, there's no shortage of that and it should be up to the parents to craft the general direction the kids look for inspiration.

    If its about adults who have a choice between shelf stocker at minimum wage, or getting beat for more money, where do you draw that line? Should all entertainment careers be required to be safe (whatever that is)? What happens if/when we discover that many musical entertainers die early from hypertension as a result of a demanding tour schedule?
    Sorry...my 'nanny' comment wasn't intended to point to children in any way. That really wasn't where I was going! I was trying to make two points:

    1. Without understanding the actual risk...is it every fight or just once in a while....I'm up in the air about how I feel
    2. Even though I sound like a 'pussy' - afraid of risk and injury - what I was trying to say that I appreciate lots of the risky extreme sports but that I see a distinction in both risk management and intent. Folks doing trips off a ramp on a motorcycle have done a lot of calculation and the intent is is to complete the stunt safely. UCF attempts to mitigate the risk through training, and apparently through effective 'fight managmement' but the goal is still for one fighter to hurt the other enough that they tap out or are tapped out.

    And this...

    In most MMA events, once you get knocked out, that it. Show's over. No standing counts, no saving by the bell...
    ...did you mean knocked down? Cus, once you're knocked out the damage is done. I don't think there's such a thing as a being knocked unconscious harmlessly...but, I could be wrong!

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  21. #21
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    Playing the devil's advocate for a second.. you could just as easily be describing an NHL or NFL career.
    Sort of...but in both those sports the rules forbid intentionally injuring another player. And they're being enforced more and more strictly. I wonder why...?

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    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
    Muhammad Ali.

  22. #22
    Lifer
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    Sorry...my 'nanny' comment wasn't intended to point to children in any way. That really wasn't where I was going! I was trying to make two points:
    Ah, then I think my reply becomes much simpler: Free country. I could never do it myself, and I don't really "get" the big deal about it, but I don't care either. It's an understood sport with high risk of physical injury. Compared to a motorcycle jump, where the goal is not to get hurt, the goal with UFC is that at least one person is going to get hurt. The participants can agree on rules, but it won't alter the main point.

    Are you asking from a moral/ethical/societal point (should we applaud it?), or whether it should be legal?
    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    Sort of...but in both those sports the rules forbid intentionally injuring another player. And they're being enforced more and more strictly. I wonder why...?
    Because they risk losing fans in a flutter of Facebook posts over brain damage, corporate liability, and player revolt. Football is about the game, not just about hurting someone.

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    Last edited by aldend123; 08-06-15 at 02:12 PM.
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  23. #23
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    I'm extremely turned on now. I think I love her, or it's really meaningful lust...
    That clip is hilarious. What's also interesting is that if she fucks anyone at all, they will likely STILL be millionaires. Why? Because she will be one, and she hates gold diggers!

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  24. #24
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    MMA can be very entertaining. If you know what you're watching, it's amazing. If you don't know what you're watching, hopefully the commentary is good so you can understand and appreciate it. If you don't appreciate it, there are other dangerous exciting things for you to watch. If you don't like to watch other people do dangerous things, there's always Joy of Painting reruns.

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  25. #25
    Lifer golden chicken's Avatar
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    Re: MMA/UFC

    Quote Originally Posted by DucDave View Post
    Gonna go right to the 'controversial' cus I'm pretty sure this will go south almost instantly...

    Having said that, I'm keeping an open mind because I know there are a bunch of fans and maybe even participants here. So, educate me!

    What am I missing when I think that MMA or UFC matches are insanely, brutally dangerous and punishing to the competitors? I'm not really looking for a UFC vs Boxing analysis either. I think boxing is dangerous too....

    (Yeah....I know. Motorcycle racing and street riding is dangerous too. But I never set out on a street ride knowing that I will get the shit beat our of me.)
    #1, it takes a special type of person to make it to the pro level of any sport. Along with extreme dedication and self-discipline, many of those most successful people have a supreme self-confidence that makes it much easier to accept the reality that someone is going to fight them back.

    #2, if you make a distinction between 'hurt' (temporary pain) and 'injured' (lasting or permanent damage) you may find that there's much less incidence of injury in MMA than it appears on the surface. For example, most fighters submit to an armbar before their arm is broken or dislocated. When the pressure is released, there is no lasting injury to the submitted fighter. Most chokes are also submitted to before the fighter loses consciousness, and the referees are always on top of the action to stop the fight before major brain damage or death can be incurred. Once a choke is released, the fighter can regain their composure fairly rapidly. Cuts from elbows to the face and head, while bloody, are far from deadly and mostly take some stitches to recover from.

    Yes, cumulative damage over a career can be a problem, but as above, you see similar effects on athletes from other sports such as pro football and hockey. And some doctors and sports scientists think that lighter weight gloves (or, even better, bare knuckles) are less likely to cause brain damage due to the lighter weight and less hand protection for the fighters.

    As far as whether children should be allowed to pursue MMA, remember that most of them will never make it to the pros. They will, however, spend hours in the gym getting fit, practicing self-discipline and determination, gaining self-confidence and even learning how to defend themselves. If they spar, they are probably padded head to toe and should be well-supervised.

    I think it's good.

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