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Obama 4 more years

  1. #226
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years


    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    You fail. You had time to tell us the savoirs plan. We both know there is none. Epic fail from the liberal.
    It sucks that Obama got labeled as a savior, savant, Superman, ... and winning The Nobel Prize was yet another boat anchor. Toss in 2 seemingly endless conflicts, additional military action in many other countries, banking and other financial instutions teetering or down the tubes, mortgages screwing homeowners all over the country, an obesity epidemic and anyone would look like a failure including Senator McCain. (I would have voted for McCain in 2000 but his own party undermined him.) I voted for Obama last time and will do so again shortly.

    Presidential Elections are not about plans, ideas, a moral compass, gays in the military or abortion. They are about WINNING (now, and perhaps forever) so anyone looking for a finite plan to be specified in detail with adoption dates, savings margins and return to the tax payer from any candidate is going to wait a very long time. This is true of both major political parties. You probably didn't let this happen in your lifetime but you now own it and you're responsible for it in your lifetime. It will only get worse unless you do something about it. You think it sucks now...just wait. Nothing any of them says up until election day is guaranteed. I'd claim to believe in Peter Pan before I'd accept anything a Presidential Candidate said is going to happen short of an Executive Order.

    The Federal Government is more than 90% lifers...the people we see elect and the offices and positions they fill are not the people making things happen for the rest of us. The institutions and the people who work there for decades make things happen. In the past 20 years, contractors have increasingly filled many of these day-to-day positions. It 's big business making further inroads into our lives (and I know that from direct experience.) We elect people we believe will best represent us...and anything factual is a guess at best.

    When you get outside The United States, people aren't talking about Obama versus Romney. They're talking about the economic issues in Europe and the growing influence of the BRIC countries. Please note: There's no "USA" in BRIC. We're no longer in the running as a world influencer. (Having the tactical ability to deliver a payload, owning the night and putting boots on the ground only makes us a rent-a-cop in many eyes, and it pains me to write that, but that's how we're viewed.)

    We think America is great, and for many people arriving here aspiring for a better life, it is. (I also know that from direct experience.) FREEDOM is a very potent drug, but we've been sucking it down without considering the consequences, especially the economic consequences, for decades. I'm as guilty as anyone of that. If you want a better Governor or President than ours, find someone to support and put your boots on the ground to make it happen.

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  2. #227
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    You fail. You had time to tell us the savoirs plan. We both know there is none. Epic fail from the liberal.
    Really? 3 whole minutes to repond to your nonsense?
    lol, I didn't realize how afraid you were that your candidates didn't measure up...now I realize that you don't know shit about them. You're just towing the party line and you're afraid of any other information. It's about winning to you and not what is best for the country.

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    Last edited by gadget; 08-22-12 at 08:58 AM.
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  3. #228
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    Get out while you can

    Find your own path

  4. #229
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    My ride was really nice, as was our day at the beach.

    I went for another ride last night and watched the pretty light as the sun set.

    I awoke to find this thread had come back from the dead.

    If anyone could ever find any stronger evidence than this thread of the futility of trying to convince another person to see the world differently than they choose to see it, I would be surprised.

    There are two realities that govern the way that 99% of us see the world.

    Am I able to live my life as I choose without excessive government interference in my life choices?
    Is there money in my wallet?

    All else is "sound and fury, signifying nothing" most of the time.

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  5. #230
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    Re: Obama 4 more years


    That was pretty interesting...thanks...

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  6. #231
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    It must be true, it was on the Internet!

    Wow, if I rewrote this article as a paean to Romney and left in all the stilted language and unsupported speculation, I would be embarrassed by it.

    I don't know what this is, but it isn't a well constructed opinion column and it certainly isn't a journalistically sound news article.

    If it were in a private blog, it would be a momentary rant.

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  7. #232
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    It must be true, it was on the Internet!

    Wow, if I rewrote this article as a paean to Romney and left in all the stilted language and unsupported speculation, I would be embarrassed by it.

    I don't know what this is, but it isn't a well constructed opinion column and it certainly isn't a journalistically sound news article.

    If it were in a private blog, it would be a momentary rant.
    http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/p...012-08-08.html

    http://www.kjonline.com/news/A-week-...pe=mobile&id=1


    Both these articles have similar and interesting things to say about the delegates and whats going on with them. Certainly makes one think a little more about the whole situation; or at least it should.

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  8. #233
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    It doesn't make me think, because it is business as usual in both parties since forever.

    Yes, there is back room arm wrestling, power plays, and other general nastiness. It always happens when a nomination is contested.

    Shall we discuss JFK's road to the nomination?

    My point is that this is the way the ugly game is played, it doesn't make the other candidate more appealing or the candidate involve dress appealing. Remember, you can't get elected if you are not nominated.

    I would expect that the wrangling between Obama and H. Clinton was similar, she just had enough delegates to leverage it into a cabinet position.

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  9. #234
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget View Post
    Instead of telling us how terrible Obama/Biden is, why don't you explain to us how Romney/Ryan are going to improve the country with all their "plans".

    What, exactly, do you think the Romney/Ryan would do differently, that will improve our country?


    your absolutely right, no difference, Romney, Obama, thats why the best vote goes to Gary Johnson

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  10. #235
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Gary Johnsn is a loon, even by Libertarian party standards.

    There, somebody finally said it.

    The Obama/Romney choice may be which ugly girl you are going to dance with, but it's what we got.

    And spare me the we can't ever change without a third party. John Anderson brought us close in 1980, Gary Johnson is miles and miles in the other direction from establishing any credibility for a third party.

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  11. #236
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/p...012-08-08.html

    http://www.kjonline.com/news/A-week-...pe=mobile&id=1


    Both these articles have similar and interesting things to say about the delegates and whats going on with them. Certainly makes one think a little more about the whole situation; or at least it should.
    The Sentinal and KJ?? Ughh...

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  12. #237
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    The Sentinal and KJ?? Ughh...
    Different strokes...anything that reports on the potential to scare the people who plan and run these campaigns and these conventions gets my vote even if it appears on toilet paper.

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  13. #238
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget View Post
    Instead of telling us how terrible Obama/Biden is, why don't you explain to us how Romney/Ryan are going to improve the country with all their "plans".

    What, exactly, do you think the Romney/Ryan would do differently, that will improve our country?
    Well, there's the real problem. The only reason Romney has to get votes is that he isn't Obama, and he's not even very good at not being Obama. He and Ryan won't help much, if any. That's why I (and many others) are still going to write in Ron Paul, or vote for Gary Johnson.

    PhilB

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  14. #239
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Gary Johnsn is a loon, even by Libertarian party standards.

    There, somebody finally said it.

    The Obama/Romney choice may be which ugly girl you are going to dance with, but it's what we got.

    And spare me the we can't ever change without a third party. John Anderson brought us close in 1980, Gary Johnson is miles and miles in the other direction from establishing any credibility for a third party.
    Anderson did not represent any party any more than Ross Perot

    except Whigs & Federalists ,every president has been a 3rd party

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  15. #240

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Is this a appropriate time for my democrat/republican/good cop/bad cop and its about looking at ourselves to save this great nation speech???? Or is obsolute and gadget so dependent upon Washington for helping us its useless?

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  16. #241
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    Is this a appropriate time for my democrat/republican/good cop/bad cop and its about looking at ourselves to save this great nation speech???? Or is obsolute and gadget so dependent upon Washington for helping us its useless?
    If I say yes, will you be quiet?
    The fact is that you would rather twist and lie, about what someone believes, to "win" than to actually reach a point of compromise or understanding.

    perfectly polarized, for us or against, black or white, good or evil, no middle ground, no compromise, no progress

    The truth is that I do believe in a larger government. I believe that we are the United States for a reason. One of them is that we stand together. The Federal government is the prime point to direct this. The Federal government should serve us. We pay taxes. We should feel that the government is working for us. If something is wrong with it, we should fix it... not destroy or dismantle it. SO to respond, I think the government is there to do what I pay it for...I want nothing more than my money's worth and I want most of it spent for the things I believe in.

    I read a bunch of other stuff about Ron Paul (from his official website). He does seem to be trustworthy but I disagree with him on a few issues (deal breakers actually) and some of the positions that he's adopted are so extreme that it's a little difficult to take him seriously.

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  17. #242
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    How much money should government take?

    Who should they take it from?

    What should they do with it?

    That's pretty much the whole ball game right there.

    In general, people who feel they get more than they give want more government and people who feel they give more than they get want less government.

    Thus if someone is receiving more in benefit from a government than they contribute in taxes and the government only gets money from people, even if borrowing if for future people to repay, then people who are happy getting more than they contribute are happy taking other people's money.

    Furthermore, if the government is run at a deficit, we are all getting more than we collectively pay for and putting it on future generations.

    Beyond a few social issues that get people's panties in a bunch, the battle hasn't changed much since the revolution, free men want control over the fruits of their labors. The quaint notion of a limited federal government intended to protect citizens but largely stay out of their way died long, long ago.

    We lost the battle over confiscation, now we just fight over the distribution of our confiscated wealth.

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  18. #243
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    In general, people who feel they get more than they give want more government and people who feel they give more than they get want less government.
    Your whole post relies on this assumption and it is false.

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  19. #244
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    I'll admit that part of it is false. Those who get far more than they contribute don't even consider it, they just have been trained to expect it like a dog treat, hence "entitlement."

    Also, my entire post does not rely on that premise, my entire post relies on the premise that people who take this stuff too seriously will get irritated and wase time responding.

    And that premise is most definitely true...

    This is a motorcycle site, all else here is nonsense. I might as well join a political forum and start a thread arguing about which oil to use.

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  20. #245
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    I call your Bluffington Post and raise you

    www.newsbusters.org

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  21. #246
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Obama 4 more years-206029_454285501271505_1398333960_n-jpg

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  22. #247

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    If you go back and examine responses and such in this thread I can't help but notice that for the most part the liberals (TheIglu not included. He didn't even slant his answers. He gotten my respect) simply never answer questions. When cornered they turn to name calling, insults, avoiding answering by just going into attack, and even outright lies. Look back and check for yourself. Please don't take my word for it. Take a few minutes. Reread the thread. Make up your own mind. Do the conservatives give answers when asked a question? Do they liberals do the same? If you do see the disparency maybe ask yourself why?

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    Last edited by Rambunctous; 08-23-12 at 08:17 AM.

  23. #248
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Neither side really answers questions with anything but stock stuff and neither listens to the other.

    What makes the "economic progressives", i.e. the "it would be a better world if we could take more money from those who earn more money and give it to those who don't" crowd so entertaining is that they're so darn earnest about it that every response is a life or death rant against the evils of a single party or a philosophy of economic freedom.

    There isn't enough rich, or even upper middle class white guilt to go around to sate their appetite for fixing the world with money someone else earned.

    The philosophy ignores the basic wiring of humans to improve the condition of those closest to them first and protect that unit from harm. The utopian notion of economic equality is a lingering fantasy and the idea that equal economic opportunity can be legislated into existence is just plain funny.

    What gets lost in all of this is a singular truth. At every level of society, harder work produces a better life. The slope of the line may be steeper for some and flatter for others and it might not even happen in one generation. But if one generation can ignore all the noise, just work their balls off, provide opportunity for their children that they did not have and if their children are willing to work as hard as their parents to then apply themselves toward the opportunities their parents struggled to provide for them, that second generation can always find middle class and often better. As long as the family ethic of hard work, valuing education and building wealth instead of buying stuff persists, that family unit will be net contributors to the economic system for generations to come.

    It isn't that complicated, I know because I'm that second generation.

    But I'm a white, natural born citizen, with two parents who worked and stayed married and even managed to be of different genders and who made education a priority and who let me take a job at 13 and work my way through school and get used to routine 60 hours weeks, so clearly I was cheating by having had those advantages, so I should now apologize to those who didn't have all that and try to remedy it by letting the government take more of my earnings away from my family.

    I'm not special, I'm average, millions do the same as I did. I did nothing special. I did what I was supposed to do. I did my job as a person, father, worker and citizen. I read the rules on the inside of the game box, largely played by them while also playing to win and caught a few break along the way (the harder you work, the luckier you get).

    At this point, I would rather die a sudden and violent death at the hands of a violent underclass revolution that storms my home and kills me for my transgressions that die the death of a thousand taxes confiscated from me to continually feed those for whom the rules of the game are encoded on their EBT cards.


    now there's a rant!

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    Last edited by SteveM; 08-23-12 at 10:23 AM.

  24. #249
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Obama Tank Protector More appropriate for this forum!?

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  25. #250
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Neither side really answers questions with anything but stock stuff and neither listens to the other.

    What makes the "economic progressives", i.e. the "it would be a better world if we could take more money from those who earn more money and give it to those who don't" crowd so entertaining is that they're so darn earnest about it that every response is a life or death rant against the evils of a single party or a philosophy of economic freedom.

    There isn't enough rich, or even upper middle class white guilt to go around to sate their appetite for fixing the world with money someone else earned.

    The philosophy ignores the basic wiring of humans to improve the condition of those closest to them first and protect that unit from harm. The utopian notion of economic equality is a lingering fantasy and the idea that equal economic opportunity can be legislated into existence is just plain funny.

    What gets lost in all of this is a singular truth. At every level of society, harder work produces a better life. The slope of the line may be steeper for some and flatter for others and it might not even happen in one generation. But if one generation can ignore all the noise, just work their balls off, provide opportunity for their children that they did not have and if their children are willing to work as hard as their parents to then apply themselves toward the opportunities their parents struggled to provide for them, that second generation can always find middle class and often better. As long as the family ethic of hard work, valuing education and building wealth instead of buying stuff persists, that family unit will be net contributors to the economic system for generations to come.

    It isn't that complicated, I know because I'm that second generation.

    But I'm a white, natural born citizen, with two parents who worked and stayed married and even managed to be of different genders and who made education a priority and who let me take a job at 13 and work my way through school and get used to routine 60 hours weeks, so clearly I was cheating by having had those advantages, so I should now apologize to those who didn't have all that and try to remedy it by letting the government take more of my earnings away from my family.

    I'm not special, I'm average, millions do the same as I did. I did nothing special. I did what I was supposed to do. I did my job as a person, father, worker and citizen. I read the rules on the inside of the game box, largely played by them while also playing to win and caught a few break along the way (the harder you work, the luckier you get).

    At this point, I would rather die a sudden and violent death at the hands of a violent underclass revolution that storms my home and kills me for my transgressions that die the death of a thousand taxes confiscated from me to continually feed those for whom the rules of the game are encoded on their EBT cards.


    now there's a rant!
    To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. - Thomas Jefferson

    "A people who value it's privileges above it's principles will soon lose both" - Dwight Eisenhower

    The second one is my favorite. I think it's fair to say at this point in history we have become a nation of people who value their privileges above their principles. Unfortunately our president is fueling this mentality even more.

    If we lose sight of the means by which we obtain what we have, we don't deserve to have it.

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    Last edited by BSR6; 08-23-12 at 12:20 PM.

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