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Obama 4 more years

  1. #276
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years


    Quote Originally Posted by Woodcraft View Post
    I found it a funny coincidence that Nixon was brought up in this discussion...only because I had just read an article that made a reference to him. Makes for interesting discussion....I'm still digesting it. This should stir up the pot a bit.......

    By: Peter Schiff
    Tuesday, August 28, 2012

    ... Unfortunately, we have now all had a good taste, and a return to the gold standard is the only way to refresh the palate. I hope the Republicans have the stomach to see it through.
    They don't, though. The R's are nearly as addicted to deficit spending as the D's are; they just spend it on slightly different things. This "commission" is just a meaningless bone to throw to the atual liberty supporters, and will not be followed up on in any meaningful way.

    I did not expect this convention to have much effect on my vote. But it did. The blatant cheating and obvious disregard for fairness or ethics has driven me away from the R party completely and permanently. Ron Paul had convinced me it was worthwhile to join the party and work from within to change its course toward a better champion of liberty. The RNC and Romney have convinced me this week that not only has this effort failed to do so, but that given the current leadership of the party, it is futile to try. Back to the Libertarian party for me.

    We aren't powerless to stop them. We have the power to abandon the R party (and the D party) and vote for independent candidates, third parties, anyone we wish. I am going back to the LP and voting for Gary Johnson. Anyone else is equally free to do the same -- it only requires an act of will, with a little bit of courage and intelligence.

    PhilB

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  2. #277
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodcraft View Post
    I found it a funny coincidence that Nixon was brought up in this discussion...
    I think his tenure/reign was a tipping point for the country:
    - First major Presidential scandal to force a President from office (but not soon enough IMHO)
    - Openly disparaging and hostile to women, people of color and all opponents (real or perceived); See Nixon Tapes
    - Genuine mis-use of power (back when you had to do things manually and not electronically in almost every case)
    - Ended first major conflict post WW-II that we led with allies (and the first of many that was fought with handcuffs on and an eye towards economics)
    - Welcomed Elvis to The White House (Nod to Dick on that one, although I don't think either one understood the other one well enough)
    - Left an impression that small countries could take cheap shots at us (which continues to suck)
    - Never got a handle on the economic mess resulting from the buildup/execution/termination of The Vietnam War (which also continues to suck)

    I think there's a good reason historians look back decades to find patterns in spending, growth and decline. My favorite, Andrew Bacevich, has helped me try to understand how we got to where we are today. Obama The Candidate seemed to be doing this form of analysis to form his positions and statements. Different now that he's in The Hot Seat. I'm still voting for him, but he'll need to show me much more of the first term candidate thinking, planning and execution (and not the deal making of the first term.) If not, I'm looking at Gary Johnson, Don Johnson (Ricardo Tubbs call home) or Artie Johnson...something's gotta change in a big way in our country. Myself included.

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    Last edited by gtutunjian; 08-29-12 at 06:36 AM. Reason: fixed the quote
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  3. #278
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    After watching the RNC last night I'm not impressed, but I'm still willing to roll the dice on someone new.

    The bottom line is Obama is idealistic and out of touch. His policies have changed nothing and the only solid argument one can make is that they have made things worse. His habit of blaming others and insisiting he was put in a situation that he cannot control is bullshit and proof he lacks the characteristics of a true leader.

    Hack Romney all you want but remember how appealing Obama was before he was elected and look at him now? The bottom line is appeal is nothing, and we really don't know a candidate until they are elected.

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  4. #279

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Any politician who thinks the Redskins are the home team needs to go.

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  5. #280

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    January 20, 2009 Obama is sworn in as President. Average price of gas was $1.89. Nuff said.

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  6. #281
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    January 20, 2009 Obama is sworn in as President. Average price of gas was $1.89. Nuff said.
    I wish...The Prez can't dictate commodity trading principles and actions. (If so, we'd be flying Predators over several major European capitals. Wait, ...) There's some recent data here. Note to self: Top U.S. Petroleum Supplier is Canada (and we haven't occupied them yet, eh!?)

    The Stones got it right IMHO: Gimme Shelter..., people need food, medicine and clothing AKA: I need to eat, I need healthcare and I need protection from the elements (AKA a roof over my head.) I think The Prez is working on those issues (and they are almost as challenging.)

    Democracy makes things like this difficult to near impossible, too: Commercial entities (CVS, Wal-Mart, Exxon-Mobil, etc.) do not have to heed government requests and even regulations (as they can fight the latter for years and get exemptions.) I saw this directly when I helped develop and deliver a predictive modeling system for the DoD (to plan the delivery of food, medicine and clothing to warfighters in the field.) Companies didn't have to share their data, didn't have to supply it in the requested format, and generally didn't play well with others (since they're trying to get the business from others.)

    Even W could not catch a break from the Saudi's, and if memory serves me right, he's a blood brother to one or more of them...I believe he did score a gold necklace with a jewel in the center on the last attempt as a consolation prize.

    Oil is Gold: If you want it, you have to find it and take it...unfortunately, and colonization let alone full on occupation isn't practiced much (formally) in this century.

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    Last edited by gtutunjian; 08-30-12 at 07:20 AM. Reason: fixed my typo, at least the one i found
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  7. #282
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Obama isn't the one running the printing press until it breaks. You know why? BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO PRINT MONEY.

    You want a change? You want the value of your money back? Call your senator and tell them to pass the Audit the Fed bill. Oh, and vote for Gary Johnson.

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  8. #283
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    January 20, 2009 Obama is sworn in as President. Average price of gas was $1.89. Nuff said.
    When Clinton was in office, it was $.83. Enough said.

    When Bush was in office, it was $3.50. Enough said.

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  9. #284
    Just Registered ThisBitch's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Oh shit, did you just make numbers say whateverthefuckyouwant? n0 wayz!

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  10. #285

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    Gary Johnson.
    This bitch is cowboy

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  11. #286
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Sigmey Mipple

    I would love to be enthusiastic about something but I still haven't heard anything that would reverse the USA decline.
    The best we got is I will slow the decline

    BY the way Obama cemented the EPA 57 mpg sillyness. The only thing I have that would pass would be my TW200.
    2 seat diesel electric hybrid made from carbon fiber only $62000 top continuous speed 48 mph

    I am politician the laws of physics are mutable.

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  12. #287
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post

    BY the way Obama cemented the EPA 57 mpg sillyness. The only thing I have that would pass would be my TW200.
    2 seat diesel electric hybrid made from carbon fiber only $62000 top continuous speed 48 mph

    I am politician the laws of physics are mutable.
    You do realize there are fun cars out there that can get 50 mpg (real world - not bullshit EPA figures) right now? Some of which I'd actually drive.

    By 2025 it's not that far of a reach. 15 years ago 30 mpg was frugal. Now 40 mpg is becoming common. Throw in a few diesels and taller gearing and it's not that big a deal.

    Also consider that pickups now routinely get DOUBLE the mileage they used to and have DOUBLE the power to boot.

    Bunch of whining about nothing if you ask me.

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  13. #288
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    Obama isn't the one running the printing press until it breaks. You know why? BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO PRINT MONEY.

    You want a change? You want the value of your money back? Call your senator and tell them to pass the Audit the Fed bill. Oh, and vote for Gary Johnson.
    the serious problem with our debt began when Nixon did away wit the gold standard, now money is based on nothing, the government borrows, the federal reserve prints it with IOUs from the US government, payment comes due, government borrows more from Fed, Fed prints more..... its a Ponzi scheme http://youtu.be/iRzr1QU6K1o

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  14. #289
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    the serious problem with our debt began when Nixon did away wit the gold standard, now money is based on nothing, the government borrows, the federal reserve prints it with IOUs from the US government, payment comes due, government borrows more from Fed, Fed prints more..... its a Ponzi scheme http://youtu.be/iRzr1QU6K1o
    The value of our currency is based on faith IMHO (especially since Dick did what Dick did during that period when Dick and Henry were calling the shots.) The faith other countries have in us being able to repay our debts, and the faith we have in our local, state and national enterprises. Kudos to you for resurrecting this piece of history. (Check out what Paul Krugman has to say in the Later ramification section.) Dick took the advice given to him and acted on it. Obama did the same (hit Repeat key) in his first term, too. (So did Jack Kennedy, LBJ and many more Presidents. They all do. It's what leaders of large, distributed and multi-____ enterprises are forced to do.) We don't elect economists, we elect electable people (at least since Ike IMHO. There's an undercurrent of Ike Appreciation percolating, unfortunately, mostly with historians.)

    I talk about transparency in my work all the time...it's key to a vibrant team/division/enterprise/country. I've seen it improve a lot of conditions. I checked out the Audit The Fed Bill and signed up for notifications and will read further, too (thanks ThisBitch.) They're a paranoid group, for certain. When their "new" building was first erected in Boston it had gun ports on ground level. I always imagined then signaling repel boarders if someone came for the loot. I think these are gone now.

    If we're not presented with or finding and electing people in whom we have faith to do the right thing for the populace, we're still screwed (and getting screwed deeper every major election cycle.) We have to find these people ourselves and work for them. I see more dialogue and enthusiasm about this on The NESR Forum than anywhere else...that would have totally confused Dick, and Henry too.

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    Last edited by gtutunjian; 08-31-12 at 04:57 AM. Reason: when their "new" building...that old building rocked
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  15. #290
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    You want the value of your money back? Call your senator and tell them to pass the Audit the Fed bill. Oh, and vote for Gary Johnson.
    Thanks for alerting me to this bill and to look more closely at Gary Johnson, too.

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  16. #291
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Tieing the country's currency to any materialistic object like gold, diamonds etc is a huge mistake.
    Right now, they can make gold and many other precious metals in a nuclear reactor.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_synthesis

    They can also make diamonds, rubys and emeralds.

    Presently, the cost to make them is higher than the cost to mine them but they are making progress in reducing the cost of manufacture and at some point it will be cheaper to make these materials than it is to mine them.
    For that matter the price of Diamonds is already being artificially managed.

    Consider if we tied our economy to gold and, with one advancement in technology, gold could cost $20 an ounce to make.

    That would pretty much end our economy.

    I read Ron Paul's position on the issues. His website is faily easy to navigate.
    I agree that he is honest and straight forward but his position on a lot of issues are dealbreakers for me.

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  17. #292
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    If you were supporting Ron Paul, you should vote for Gary Johnson. Writing Paul in will not work due to the differing write-in rules in each state.

    You also need to talk to your friends, neighbors, kids, family. Get involved, speak up. Apathy is contagious and it is an enemy of liberty.

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  18. #293
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget View Post
    Tieing the country's currency to any materialistic object like gold, diamonds etc is a huge mistake.
    Right now, they can make gold and many other precious metals in a nuclear reactor.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_synthesis

    They can also make diamonds, rubys and emeralds.

    Presently, the cost to make them is higher than the cost to mine them but they are making progress in reducing the cost of manufacture and at some point it will be cheaper to make these materials than it is to mine them.
    For that matter the price of Diamonds is already being artificially managed.
    Not to hijack the thread too much but:
    - Those metals and jewels are still radioactive when they emerge and the quantities are wicked limited
    - There will always be people willing to do that work by hand (as in mine the stuff) versus enough radioactive processing plants to make the stuff (IMHO)
    - I always thought the price of diamonds was tied to how much clothing Lady Ga Ga wears each day when she emerges from wherever she's emerging from on that particular day...you mean those people in Amsterdam are using some other set of rules

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    Apathy is contagious and it is an enemy of liberty.

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  19. #294
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget View Post
    Tieing the country's currency to any materialistic object like gold, diamonds etc is a huge mistake.
    Right now, they can make gold and many other precious metals in a nuclear reactor.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_synthesis

    They can also make diamonds, rubys and emeralds.

    Presently, the cost to make them is higher than the cost to mine them but they are making progress in reducing the cost of manufacture and at some point it will be cheaper to make these materials than it is to mine them.
    For that matter the price of Diamonds is already being artificially managed.

    Consider if we tied our economy to gold and, with one advancement in technology, gold could cost $20 an ounce to make.

    That would pretty much end our economy.

    I read Ron Paul's position on the issues. His website is faily easy to navigate.
    I agree that he is honest and straight forward but his position on a lot of issues are dealbreakers for me.

    and just printing money is ok, at least precious metals have a value that's real, right now

    ever since the gold standard has been eliminated, our monetary system has been based on a Ponzi scheme

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  20. #295
    Member gtutunjian's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    and just printing money is ok, at least precious metals have a value that's real, right now

    ever since the gold standard has been eliminated, our monetary system has been based on a Ponzi scheme
    Money is a promise I admit. Precious metals and jewels do have significant currency (Klaatu, where have you gone?) but it won't happen. An even smaller cadre of professionals controls precious metals and jewels (and some of them have beards and long hair...so who will trust them? )

    Ponzi, Fonzie or Chotchkie - We seem to prefer our schemes real or imagined.

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  21. #296
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisBitch View Post
    If you were supporting Ron Paul, you should vote for Gary Johnson.
    Can't. (Or won't.) Way too afraid of Romney.

    Feel free to convince me I'm wrong. I'll listen.

    On a related note? Anyone catch Jon Stewart's coverage of the convention in FL? Funny, funny shit. And the extended interview with that Rubio guy was actually a pretty good watch.

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  22. #297
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by gtutunjian View Post
    Not to hijack the thread too much but:
    - Those metals and jewels are still radioactive when they emerge and the quantities are wicked limited
    - There will always be people willing to do that work by hand (as in mine the stuff) versus enough radioactive processing plants to make the stuff (IMHO)
    - I always thought the price of diamonds was tied to how much clothing Lady Ga Ga wears each day when she emerges from wherever she's emerging from on that particular day...you mean those people in Amsterdam are using some other set of rules

    - The metals are radioactive. The jewels are not.
    btw it is now cheaper to make rubies in a lab and the only way to tell the difference is by a trace additive that the lab use just so you can tell them from mined rubies. It is only a matter of time before these things are more common place.

    - I expect that when the process is finally developed to create large quantities of gold cheaper than mining, you will see the complete shutdown of all commercial gold mining...but we will see.

    - De Beers is in South Africa...not Amsterdam... and it is well known that they set and fix the price for diamonds by carefully managing their monopoly of the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    and just printing money is ok, at least precious metals have a value that's real, right now

    ever since the gold standard has been eliminated, our monetary system has been based on a Ponzi scheme
    yes, printing money is ok...everyone does it...and has been doing it many many years...

    and just so we're clear on something...our present economic woes have nothing to do with the gold standard, in fact if we were on the gold standard, we would be in a much worse place right now.

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  23. #298
    Lifer oVTo's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    What are the benefits of changing the country back to the gold standard?

    What are the drawbacks?

    The Swiss might be one of the few countries with enough gold reserves to switch to the gold standard without severely contracting their money supply. They're usually thought of as a conservative, financially shrewd country. Yet, they don't use the gold standard. Why not?

    How many countries are on the gold standard, and how many are not? When did other countries leave the gold standard? Have countries switched back and forth between the two models? Why did they change? What happened to their economies before and after they changed? Why did they switch? How did it affect the countries still on the gold standard?

    The U.S. has had a endless series of recessions and depressions (business cycles) since it was founded. The two longest and most severe (1870s and 1930s) occurred while we used the gold standard. For the first half of the 20th century (under the gold standard), recessions averaged 18 months and expansions 35, and they averaged a 20% drop in business activity. Since the end of WWII (most of which is off the gold standard) recessions average 10 months and expansions average 57 months, and only the most recent recession was greater than a 5% drop (at 5.1%). Is it possible that manipulating the money supply might be a extremely valuable tool for managing a business cycle?

    What would happen if we switched to the gold standard? How much would we have to contract our money supply? How would we contract it? How would the gold standard affect interest rates, GDP, and GDP growth? Prices? Incomes? Imports and Exports? Unemployment? Wages? Does a relatively high unemployment rate make this a particularly good time or bad time to switch? Why?

    What is the problem that changing to the gold standard would address? Are there any other ways that problem could be tackled? What are the strengths and weaknesses of each of the alternatives?

    If you can't answer at least most of these questions, then you might just be parroting a position that appeals to you emotionally. No problem, we all do that at times. But something as dramatic as changing the foundation of a country's economic model should never be an emotional decision.

    End of rant? I'm going back to the chipped rims thread to relax.

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  24. #299
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Fort Knox is empty...

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  25. #300
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    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by oVTo View Post
    If you can't answer at least most of these questions...
    Yer right. I am way too much of a simpleton to answer all of those questions.

    But I can read this chart:



    Tell me, why would converting to the 'gold standard' hurt so badly? Is it related to that chart? I think it is.

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