Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Page 14 of 17 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121314151617 LastLast
Results 326 to 350 of 409

Obama 4 more years

  1. #326
    Lifer R1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Somewhere you dont know...
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,103

    Re: Obama 4 more years


    You forgot to add that the idea of being conservative means going backwards in history to a time when women had no rights and evolution was still an intelligent debate.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  2. #327
    Lifer joeswamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Swampscott, MA
    Posts
    1,052

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Honclfibr View Post
    It's not so much that people stopped being republican, it's that the republican party did. I used to align pretty strongly republican on the economic front but the pandering to Wall Street and abandonment of any attempt at fiscal responsibility pretty much killed that.
    ^^ Plus one gazillion.

    50 years ago, when Kennedy wanted to roll back taxes on the rich, the Republicans railed against it as crazy irresponsible. Nixon opened up China and created the EPA. I think in some ways Clinton and Obama are to the right of Nixon.

    The Democrats used to be owned by the unions and there were lots of crazy ideas there, the Republicans were thought of as the "responsible" party. Now the unions are all gone, the Democrats are in the center, and the Republicans represent the lunatic fringe. Amazing how things can change.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by joeswamp; 09-06-12 at 10:10 PM.
    Joe
    04 Thruxton (Street)
    01 SV650 (Track)
    75 CB400F (Future Vintage Racer)
    68 BSA Royal Star (Garage Floor Lubricator)

  3. #328
    Lifer R1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Somewhere you dont know...
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,103

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Ill say it... If Obama had the political experience he had a good shot at being a great president.

    Instead he has brought to light a ton of racism in this country hid under the guise of "political correctness" and "freedom"

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  4. #329

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Wow. I didn't know that JFK was a out there lunatic.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  5. #330
    Lifer joeswamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Swampscott, MA
    Posts
    1,052

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    I don't think JFK was a lunatic, but he was probably a lot further left than any democrat these days. I think once democrats started supporting republican ideas like NAFTA the republicans had to distinguish themselves by running hard to the right.

    I do think that some of the current mainstream republicans are further out of touch with reality than any mainstream democrats have ever been. To find a democrat equivalent of Paul Ryan I think you'd have to go back to the 1930s and find one of those guys that seriously believed everyone should be paid the exact same wage.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Joe
    04 Thruxton (Street)
    01 SV650 (Track)
    75 CB400F (Future Vintage Racer)
    68 BSA Royal Star (Garage Floor Lubricator)

  6. #331

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    I don't think JFK was a lunatic, but he was probably a lot further left than any democrat these days. I think once democrats started supporting republican ideas like NAFTA the republicans had to distinguish themselves by running hard to the right.

    I do think that some of the current mainstream republicans are further out of touch with reality than any mainstream democrats have ever been. To find a democrat equivalent of Paul Ryan I think you'd have to go back to the 1930s and find one of those guys that seriously believed everyone should be paid the exact same wage.
    Question. In your thinking do you think Warren is mainstream and Brown is out of touch?
    A few years ago while listening to blowhard Rush he read a speech. Callers were invited to call in and guess who it was. Most guessed Newt. It was JFK.
    Reagarding last nights lecture from the messiah it was bad when you got second place to Biden. The king basically begging those who deserted him to come back. It was pathetic. Even he admitted he sucked on the economy and begged for more time. Of course he tried to blame everyone else. Go Gary Johnson!!!!

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  7. #332
    Lifetime Motorcyclist Woodcraft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,292

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    More montary policy talk....this comes from someone who believes that our financial solvency as a nation is an issue that does not get nearly enough attention. I tend to agree. In order to get things under control, it is going to be painful. Higher taxes for everyone, fewer entitlements for everyone, and we are going to have to endure another recession in the process. However, the longer we ignore the problem, the more painful the solution is going to be. We've seen this before, but there are the real numbers from the 2013 budget put into terms of a US family. This family has $24,000 in income and $37,000 in bills for the coming year. This family also has 163,000 in debt. The projected debt by 2021 is 260,000. If this was your family, what would you do? Most of us would dramatically cut expenses (entitlements), work harder to create more income (taxes + economic growth) and plan to pay down the debt over the next "X" number of years. We've got a magic farm out back that can produce an unlimited number of apples (money). If we tell the farm to make more apples we can get some temporary relief, but eventually our customers will have more apples than they need and the apples we already have will be worth less. The other option is bankruptcy.....is that really where we want to go? The preceding is an example of my own - full of flaws that you can pick apart...but you are all smart and understand the point. Below are the words on an "expert"....who I don't think is very far off. The solution is not going to be pretty. You cannot screw up for this long and have to consequences. However, the longer we wait, the worse the solution will be. I don't know how you can refute that.

    "The simple truth is that our economy has a disease that all the quantitative easing in the world can't cure. And while the wrong medicine may make us appear healthier in the short term, we will continue to deteriorate beneath the surface. Not only should the Fed not provide additional QE, but it should remove the accommodation currently in place. Although these moves would most certainly send us back into recession, it would simultaneously provide a needed course correction that would put us finally on the road to a sustainable recovery.

    The recession the Fed is trying so desperately to prevent must be allowed to run its course so that the economy that we have developed over the last decade, the one that is overly reliant on low interest rates, borrowing and consumer spending, can finally restructure itself into something healthier. By enabling this diseased economy to overstay its welcome, QE does more harm than good. To recover for the long haul, the market must be allowed to correct the misallocations of resources that resulted from prior stimulus. Additional stimulus inhibits this process, and exacerbates the size of the misallocations the markets must eventually correct.

    In the interim, any GDP growth or employment gains that result from stimulus actually compounds the difficulty in restructuring the economy. Any jobs created as a result of cheap monetary stimulus are jobs that won't be able to survive absent that support. They will require a continual misallocation of resources in order to survive. Unfortunately, these jobs must ultimately be lost before a real recovery can actually begin.

    Holding rates of interest far below market levels (which is the goal of stimulus) alters patterns of consumption, savings, and investment. Fed intervention short-circuits the market driven process that resolves misallocations. The more stimulus that is provided, the harder market forces must work to try to restore equilibrium. As the misallocations grow over time, the efficacy of monetary measures diminishes. In the end, the market will overwhelm the Fed. The only question is how long it will take.

    The Fed is trying to build skyscrapers on a bad foundation. Each subsequent structure it builds not only collapses, but also weakens the foundation that much more. The result is that subsequent structures collapse at increasingly lower heights and require more effort to build. Instead of trying to build, the Fed could concentrate on repairing the underlying foundation. That might delay construction, but in the end the buildings will be much sturdier.

    Because the Fed has kept interest rates too low for too long, Americans have saved too little and borrowed too much; consumed too much and produced too little; and imported too much and exported too little. Too much of our labor is devoted to the service sectors and not enough to goods production. Too much capital goes to Wall Street speculators and not enough to Main Street entrepreneurs. We built too many homes but not enough factories. We have developed too many shopping centers, and not enough natural resources. The list of Fed induced misallocations goes on.

    By trying to preserve the jobs associated with this old economy, the Fed prevents the market from creating the ones we actually need. Unfortunately no one seems to understand that, and we continue to chase blindly after failed economic models. Look for such misunderstanding to be on high display this week in Charlotte as Democrats gather to call for even greater intervention to perpetuate a failed economic model."

    3 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by Woodcraft; 09-07-12 at 10:09 AM.

  8. #333
    Senior Member catahoulabuldog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Meridinium
    Posts
    495

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodcraft View Post
    "The simple truth is that our economy has a disease that all the quantitative easing in the world can't cure. And while the wrong medicine may make us appear healthier in the short term, we will continue to deteriorate beneath the surface. Not only should the Fed not provide additional QE, but it should remove the accommodation currently in place. Although these moves would most certainly send us back into recession, it would simultaneously provide a needed course correction that would put us finally on the road to a sustainable recovery.

    The recession the Fed is trying so desperately to prevent must be allowed to run its course so that the economy that we have developed over the last decade, the one that is overly reliant on low interest rates, borrowing and consumer spending, can finally restructure itself into something healthier. By enabling this diseased economy to overstay its welcome, QE does more harm than good. To recover for the long haul, the market must be allowed to correct the misallocations of resources that resulted from prior stimulus. Additional stimulus inhibits this process, and exacerbates the size of the misallocations the markets must eventually correct.

    In the interim, any GDP growth or employment gains that result from stimulus actually compounds the difficulty in restructuring the economy. Any jobs created as a result of cheap monetary stimulus are jobs that won't be able to survive absent that support. They will require a continual misallocation of resources in order to survive. Unfortunately, these jobs must ultimately be lost before a real recovery can actually begin.

    Holding rates of interest far below market levels (which is the goal of stimulus) alters patterns of consumption, savings, and investment. Fed intervention short-circuits the market driven process that resolves misallocations. The more stimulus that is provided, the harder market forces must work to try to restore equilibrium. As the misallocations grow over time, the efficacy of monetary measures diminishes. In the end, the market will overwhelm the Fed. The only question is how long it will take.

    The Fed is trying to build skyscrapers on a bad foundation. Each subsequent structure it builds not only collapses, but also weakens the foundation that much more. The result is that subsequent structures collapse at increasingly lower heights and require more effort to build. Instead of trying to build, the Fed could concentrate on repairing the underlying foundation. That might delay construction, but in the end the buildings will be much sturdier.

    Because the Fed has kept interest rates too low for too long, Americans have saved too little and borrowed too much; consumed too much and produced too little; and imported too much and exported too little. Too much of our labor is devoted to the service sectors and not enough to goods production. Too much capital goes to Wall Street speculators and not enough to Main Street entrepreneurs. We built too many homes but not enough factories. We have developed too many shopping centers, and not enough natural resources. The list of Fed induced misallocations goes on.

    By trying to preserve the jobs associated with this old economy, the Fed prevents the market from creating the ones we actually need. Unfortunately no one seems to understand that, and we continue to chase blindly after failed economic models. Look for such misunderstanding to be on high display this week in Charlotte as Democrats gather to call for even greater intervention to perpetuate a failed economic model."
    Pretty much, I mean honestly it isn't rocket science. your average middle class person or family is in this every day. I have a home mortgage, a car payment, credit card bills, and things like insurance to pay. What do I do when there isnt quite the $$ in my bank acct that I'd like to see? well I either have to cut back my spending (racing and bikes) or get a second job! or if things are really bad... BOTH!!!!! which I have done in the past... The only thing that bothers me is that I only see 1 aspect of that taking place. (my experience NOT yours.. mileage may vary)

    STORY: last year I went to a town council budget meeting what I heard there really bothered me. I sat for 40 minutes listening as they went on to approve a budget with tax increases for zone 3 (my zone of the town and only my 1/4 of the town) after this is done if people want to bring up discussion they are allowed 5 minutes. a few others were there including a crazy old guy who was AWESOME! they new him by name and he yelled about random budget line items for a full 5... by the time they got to me they were pretty much ready to go home. So I stood up and said. "I'd like to know why my taxes are being raised for the 4th time in 4 years. Why the taxes have been raised 4 x4 years on only my zone?" an older council member looked at me and said simply. "We took 3 million in federal stimulus money, that wont be renewed. How else can we replace it?" I didn't have an immediate answer as I was surprised at the reply, but the crazy old guy broke the silence and shouted sell the fire chiefs new 40k truck!!!! meeting over.. what I took away: as a politician your job is to say YES! I expect my town property tax to go up again next year. Hopefully I will be gone by then...

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  9. #334
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,012

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    So basically what I am gathering from Woodcrafts last post is that the economy needs to build up on it's own, and all the stimulus does is act as a bandage by putting the inevitable off just a little longer. The longer we put it off, the worse things will get and the harder its going to be for us to recover. That being said, while stimulus money may ease the pain temporarily, in reality its hurting us more.

    Granted, it exlcudes the intangible side of the argument which is supposedly what the new economic trend we have been following since 2000 (and Obama continues to follow) is all about. Given the success of this new trend I'm beginning to wonder how valid it is. Maybe its time to give up on it all together, or maybe we just need to wait out the storm.

    All I know is that there's talk of yet another stimulus. If Woodcraft's quote is correct, that means we are in serious trouble. Also, if Woodcraft's quote is correct, that means Obama needs to be gone, and Paul Ryan's philosophy might be the best approach. After all, I've read several articles where Ryan is accused of being stuck in the 80's with his economic policies. That might be exactly what we need at this stage of the game.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by BSR6; 09-07-12 at 01:51 PM.

  10. #335
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seacoast NH
    Posts
    16,733

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Am I the only one that has a hard time blaming Obama for an initiative begun well before he was elected? His administration is NOT the one that bailed out AIG and the like in 2008.

    Unfortunately I see both Ryan and Romney saying one thing and doing another. I believe Romney would be W part 2.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  11. #336
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,064

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Am I the only one that has a hard time blaming Obama for an initiative begun well before he was elected? His administration is NOT the one that bailed out AIG and the like in 2008.

    Unfortunately I see both Ryan and Romney saying one thing and doing another. I believe Romney would be W part 2.
    This is the PROBLEM -- they are ALL to blame. The bailouts and stimuli and all this Keynesian manipulation are fully bi-partisan. Which (again) is why we need someone different. The problems will not be solved by the same two parties that caused them.

    PhilB

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  12. #337
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,012

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Food for thought...Reagan, Bush Sr, and Clinton all carried the same torch when it came to economics. We saw big change with Bush #2, who shifted to a new approach that was based on the Keynesian philosophy. Obama is now carrying the same torch as Bush # 2 but going even further in the direction of the Keynesian philosophy.

    The Keynesian philosophy is partly connected to the intangible concept I brought up earlier. Basically, because the intangible aspect of our economy has grown, it is believed by some that a new approach is needed to maximize our economic potential. Whether or not this is true I'm not sure of myself, but its worth understanding if you want to see the whole picture and understand why things evolved as they have.

    To help put it all together...Woodcraft's post was written by someone who doesn't agree with the Keynesian philosophy.

    Is it really the Keynesian approach that got us into this mess? Thats the real question and the fact is we dont' know. There are others factors that may have caused this collapse and the fact that it all timed well with the shift in philosophy could be pure coincidence.

    If it is coincidence, and the Keynesian approach is not to blame then abandoning it might not be the best idea. If it is to blame, then we should go back to the Reagan philosophy just as Woodcraft's post seems to be hinting at.

    Either way...If we get four more years of Obama then we will see four more years of Keynesian economics. If Romney wins, there is a good chance we're going back to the Reagan method. That seems to be what each candidate is aiming for at this stage of the game.

    Edit: I realize that before Bush took office in 2000 there were some Keynesian policies but overall we were still fundementally following the philosophy laid out by the Reagan administration.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by BSR6; 09-07-12 at 01:56 PM.

  13. #338
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Eastern Ct
    Posts
    3,243

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    The depiction of the Conservatives is filtered through the hard left media.

    It is in the left media advantage to promote the idea that conservatives "want to put you back in chains" and pollute the world.

    The old "jobs" are making China rich beyond their wildest dreams , why can it only work there now.


    The average conservative simply believes that the government is both inept and so filled with self serving ideologues that it will make consistent bad impractical choices that can only speed our decent to the 3rd world.

    I am pro choice but do you believe its a woman's right to put an ice auger in the crowning head of a baby during birth.... see your not entirely PRO CHOICE are you.

    Are you happy that the Fort Hood Bastard Shooter is still sucking your air 4 years later ?

    Now that the country has accepted the notion of equal rights for minorities and women do you think its fair that they get preferential treatment in employment ? The current recession has hit white males more than any other group, where are your protests about that.

    The pollution regulations are being written by Gaea worshiping eggheads who probably never produced a useful anything. It is industrial censorship by the Eco Tali ban making the rules for manufacturers. Brazil has almost all our old chemical businesses and the are damn happy about it. Those use to be some of the highest paying jobs in the world.

    Your cum by ya schools are forced to put most of their money and time into the bottom 5% of the student body. True some are poor unfortunates but they end up with a full time aid even though they have no chance of an independent future. The rest are social out casts who will soon be part of our prison population. Meanwhile the top 25% of the students just have to fend for themselves as the resources are all miss directed by well meaning fools.

    This should get you going but its enough for now. SO see if you are tainted with some evil conservative thoughts

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    The calculus of hate

    It is not that I should win it is that you should lose
    It is not that I succeed it is that you fail
    It is not that I should live it is that you should die

  14. #339
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    I93/495
    Age
    44
    Posts
    6,369

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Seriously, did you leave any drugs for the rest of us? Damn.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    2012 Tiger 800 XC

  15. #340
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,064

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    Food for thought...Reagan, Bush Sr, and Clinton all carried the same torch when it came to economics. We saw big change with Bush #2, who shifted to a new approach that was based on the Keynesian philosophy. Obama is now carrying the same torch as Bush # 2 but going even further in the direction of the Keynesian philosophy.

    The Keynesian philosophy is partly connected to the intangible concept I brought up earlier. Basically, because the intangible aspect of our economy has grown, it is believed by some that a new approach is needed to maximize our economic potential. Whether or not this is true I'm not sure of myself, but its worth understanding if you want to see the whole picture and understand why things evolved as they have.

    To help put it all together...Woodcraft's post was written by someone who doesn't agree with the Keynesian philosophy.

    Is it really the Keynesian approach that got us into this mess? Thats the real question and the fact is we dont' know. There are others factors that may have caused this collapse and the fact that it all timed well with the shift in philosophy could be pure coincidence.

    If it is coincidence, and the Keynesian approach is not to blame then abandoning it might not be the best idea. If it is to blame, then we should go back to the Reagan philosophy just as Woodcraft's post seems to be hinting at.

    Either way...If we get four more years of Obama then we will see four more years of Keynesian economics. If Romney wins, there is a good chance we're going back to the Reagan method. That seems to be what each candidate is aiming for at this stage of the game.

    Edit: I realize that before Bush took office in 2000 there were some Keynesian policies but overall we were still fundementally following the philosophy laid out by the Reagan administration.
    Hell, we've been Keynesian since about WWII. Much to our long term detriment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    John Maynard Keynes, 1st Baron Keynes,[1] CB FBA ( /ˈkeɪnz/ KAYNZ; 5 June 1883–21 April 1946) was a British economist whose ideas have profoundly affected the theory and practice of modern macroeconomics, as well as the economic policies of governments. He greatly refined earlier work on the causes of business cycles, and advocated the use of fiscal and monetary measures to mitigate the adverse effects of economic recessions and depressions. Keynes is widely considered to be one of the founders of modern macroeconomics, and to be the most influential economist of the 20th century.[2][3][4][5] His ideas are the basis for the school of thought known as Keynesian economics, as well as its various offshoots.

    In the 1930s, Keynes spearheaded a revolution in economic thinking, overturning the older ideas of neoclassical economics that held that free markets would, in the short to medium term, automatically provide full employment, as long as workers were flexible in their wage demands. Keynes instead argued that aggregate demand determined the overall level of economic activity, and that inadequate aggregate demand could lead to prolonged periods of high unemployment. Following the outbreak of World War II, Keynes's ideas concerning economic policy were adopted by leading Western economies. During the 1950s and 1960s, the success of Keynesian economics resulted in almost all capitalist governments adopting its policy recommendations.

    Keynes's influence waned in the 1970s, partly as a result of problems that began to afflict the Anglo-American economies from the start of the decade, and partly because of critiques from Milton Friedman and other economists who were pessimistic about the ability of governments to regulate the business cycle with fiscal policy.[6] However, the advent of the global financial crisis in 2007 caused a resurgence in Keynesian thought. Keynesian economics provided the theoretical underpinning for economic policies undertaken in response to the crisis by Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama of the United States, Prime Minister Gordon Brown of the United Kingdom, and other heads of governments.[7]

    In 1999, Time magazine included Keynes in their list of the 100 most important and influential people of the 20th century, commenting that: "His radical idea that governments should spend money they don't have may have saved capitalism."[8] In addition to being an economist, Keynes was also a civil servant, a director of the British Eugenics Society, a director of the Bank of England, a patron of the arts and an art collector, a part of the Bloomsbury Group of intellectuals,[9][10] an advisor to several charitable trusts, a writer, a philosopher, a private investor, and a farmer.
    And ever since, governments have been spending money they don't have. I can't imagine why anyone thinks that's a good idea, or a sustainable one.

    Leftists seem to be able to grasp the concept of sustainability in agriculture, or in ecology -- you can't take out of a system faster than it can replenish for very long, or the system collapses. But they seem abjectly incapable of grasping the same concept for economics. The D party takes full advantage of that to overpromise, underdeliver, and blame the other side. Meanwhile, the R party is simply amoral and DGAF as long as they can fool people by giving lip service to rational economics, while spending about 2% less irresponsibly than the Ds.

    Ron Paul understood this, and had the right ideas. But he has been cheated into oblivion by the R party, showing that his attemp to reform and save the R party from within was quixotic. Gary Johnson has almost as good a grasp, and still can be voted for in this election. That's what I'm doing.

    PhilB

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  16. #341
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Farmington, NH
    Age
    67
    Posts
    13,702

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    the philosophy laid out by the Reagan administration.
    Hardly, Reagan's philosophy was just a return to JFK's

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    RandyO
    IBA#9560
    A man with a gun is a citizen
    A man without a gun is a subject

  17. #342
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seacoast NH
    Posts
    16,733

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    This is the PROBLEM -- they are ALL to blame. The bailouts and stimuli and all this Keynesian manipulation are fully bi-partisan. Which (again) is why we need someone different. The problems will not be solved by the same two parties that caused them.
    Yeah, but what are you going to do? According to the experts out there like my parents, most of their friends, and much on this forum, people like Ron Paul are straight up un-electable! And by extension, this Johnson guy has to be too eh?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  18. #343
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pittsfield, NH
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,064

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Yeah, but what are you going to do? According to the experts out there like my parents, most of their friends, and much on this forum, people like Ron Paul are straight up un-electable! And by extension, this Johnson guy has to be too eh?
    Anyone is electable if enough people vote for him (or her). The D and R parties have made an art of colluding to exclude alternative parties and candidates from the ballots, from the debates, from the media coverage. We need to be smarter than that, and vote for them anyway. The more we do, the more support they have, the more electable they start to look, and the ball can roll uphill. But only if we start. It's a long process, but if we never start, we can't ever get there. And if we don't ever get there, we're fucked, because we then only get the same two evils, forever.

    We need people who have the guts and brains to make a different choice. I was for Ron Paul for as long as it looked like he might have a positive effect on the R party, but they cheated him and shut him out, and displayed that to be a futile effort. But since they are making a habit of kicking large (and growing) demographic groups in the teeth, including now the entire liberty movement, I think they are going to lose this one, and go into decline. So I'm voting for Gary Johnson.

    But really, that's it. Adapt or die. Settle for the status quo, or have the balls to change it -- even if the TV says you can't.

    PhilB

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by PhilB; 09-07-12 at 07:35 PM.
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
    1993 Ducati Monster M900; 265,000 miles -- killed by minivan 30Oct17

  19. #344
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seacoast NH
    Posts
    16,733

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Just so you know, when you quote me like that, I am a member of that particular choir.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  20. #345
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,012

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Let me clarify...My point about the shift in philosophy is that there are periods where we lean further in one direction versus another. I wasn't saying we just started following the Keynesian philosophy in 2000, I'm saying we started a far more drastic lean in that direction.

    I wasn't very clear but I'm trying to keep it short which is pretty much impossible a topic like this.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  21. #346
    Silent until Snarky pk4882's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Burlington & Rutland VT
    Posts
    270

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    A perfect explanation of capitalism... remember that ALL the players in this little story will be paying less taxes when we give Obama the boot!

    A buddy quoted his mother in law as having said this...

    "So the Romneys are selfish for keeping a horse? And employing a groom with a family to support. And paying for feed that’s sold by someone with a family to support and transported in trucks by someone with a family to support and manufactured in a factory by people with families to support from stuff that’s grown by farmers with families to support. And having a barn built by construction workers with families to support with materials trucked by drivers with families to support from factories with workers with families to support. Sounds to me like that one horse has done more to put Americans to work than that horse’s ass in the White House."

    PK

    3, 2, 1, LIFT OFF!

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    1985 Cagiva 650 Alazzurra, 1992 VFR 750

  22. #347
    Life is good! gadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Londonderry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    3,877

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Anyone who thinks that other people dislike Romney because he owns a horse is a dumbass.

    People dislike Romney because...
    His only business experience is in dismantling companies and firing people.
    He has no foreign diplomacy experience.
    He represents a group of people that want to turn back the clock on human rights (civil, women's, LBGTs ...you name it)
    He hides his money in offshore accounts and then wants more tax cuts for the rich while the middle class gets screwed.

    I could go on for a very long time without mentioning that stupid horse of which he was able to deduct somehwere around $50,000 from his taxes last year....

    by the way...tax returns...? Let's see them.
    The reason he wont release them is that he knows when the American people see what he has being doing with his money for the last 10 years he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.

    3 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Sam


  23. #348
    Rider. Just a rider... DucDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Age
    69
    Posts
    8,804

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    I was looking for the Lewis Black bit about "....if it weren't for my horse..." and found this instead!


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.”
    Muhammad Ali.

  24. #349
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Norwell, MA
    Age
    60
    Posts
    2,568

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Warning, partisan post to follow....

    In all important respects, Mitt Romney is vastly more qualified to be President than Barack "community organizer" Obama was four year ago. That should not really be in question.

    So the question is who has policies you like better?

    If Mitt Romney is trying to send human rights back to the stone age, then Barack Obama is well on his way to sending our economic model into some fantasy-based model of utopian socialism that has already failed in more places than I can count.

    Bill Clinton said it best, It's the economy, stupid.

    America works best when Americans are working. Everything else is background noise.

    If you believe Obama. Will do a better job of getting more Americans working, please vote for him. But please don't decide the election based on media driven tripe about social issues.

    If the GDP grows, all else is possible, if it doesn't, nothing else matters.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  25. #350
    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Norf Sho
    Age
    40
    Posts
    11,166

    Re: Obama 4 more years

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    If Mitt Romney is trying to send human rights back to the stone age, then Barack Obama is well on his way to sending our economic model into some fantasy-based model of utopian socialism that has already failed in more places than I can count.
    Why look that far? The Republican model has failed us right here at home. 30 years of tax cuts up top, pissing money away on wars and shipping our jobs over seas hasn't done well for us.

    media driven tripe about social issues.
    Easy for you to say, you can get married and will never need an abortion


    If the GDP grows, all else is possible, if it doesn't, nothing else matters.
    GDP grows great when the middle class has money, not paying for wars and tax breaks for people and companies that don't need them that don't need them. Large companies in the US are sitting on some of the largest reserves of cash on record and are not hiring. Lack of cash is not the problem so tax cuts for them are not the answer. Lack of customers is the problem.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by obsolete; 09-08-12 at 03:34 PM.
    -Alex
    I can resist everything but Pete's mom.

Similar Threads

  1. OBAMA +1
    By richw in forum Controversial Topics
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-29-08, 09:23 AM
  2. Obama?
    By Woodsy in forum Controversial Topics
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 12-15-08, 09:15 AM
  3. Howard Stern bit - Obama voters no nothing about Obama
    By Karaya One in forum Controversial Topics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-05-08, 10:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •