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Obama means $10 gas

  1. #101
    Member chief929's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas


    We gotta stop driving huge vehicles down to the Quick Mart and get into the four three two one cylinder vehicles...

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  2. #102
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    I am very sorry for our brave troops killed and injured in Iraq.

    The killing can stop if we establish a secure base in Iraq near the oil fields and Iran. The point is not to allow the crazies free reign with this world vital resource.

    If republicans and the administration is guilty of anything it is allowing China to currency manipulate and dump without adequate checks. This is why oil went from 30 to 100 dollars. China is a big consumer and the dollar has dropped by near 50%. The bitter fruit of this will be coming for decades and all America will be like the old New England Mill Towns.

    NONE of the current candidates are willing to address this in a serious manner and it may be too late anyway.

    George Bush was change.

    I want to get behind a candidate that says good for main stream America f all the rest. I don't see that option but change toward true socialism will hasten the downturn and suffering.

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  3. #103
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Quote Originally Posted by chief929 View Post
    We gotta stop driving huge vehicles down to the Quick Mart and get into the four three two one cylinder vehicles...
    we need huge vehicles to hall stuff and the bike around.

    seems gas price increase has little or no effect. i see about the same number o f huge vehicles everyday.

    meanwhile price has hit $5.20 in CA. some predicted we'll see $4/gal around here by memorial day.

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  4. #104
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kham View Post
    we need huge vehicles to hall stuff and the bike around.
    That is the very problem with our society. You don't NEED to haul a TOY around.

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  5. #105
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    it'll be a lot more bike commute to work this yr for me.

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  6. #106
    Member taxonomy's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    The ONLY way to win the oil fight is to get out of it completely.

    <snip)

    The rest of you can continue to bitch about those crazy liberals while you demand the equivalent of fuel Welfare with no limit or reason to stop.
    Thank you.

    If the war is about oil as many posts seem to indicate let's fund it with gas taxes. Let's see what a gallon of gas costs then.

    I'd recommend starting with Frompkin's A Peace to End All Peace on the making of the modern middle east.

    Take your pick, factional religious fighting, collapse of the theocratic monarchies in the middle east, the now thousands of Saudi Princes that will struggle over power when the old guard goes down, the Middle East is no place to base a future on but that's where we're going.

    If you like you can look to the Asian tigers, care to fight a ground war with the Chinese over natural Gas in Turkmenistan? Perhaps you'd like a simultaneous civil war in the Niger River Delta and, um, a resurgent Bathist party in Iraq? Or maybe collapse on Pakistan and, um, the Chinese rush in to stabilize and also take Afghanistan and the pipeline. How about Putin, um, shuts off the tap to Europe at the same time?

    Take your pick and it's a litter I tell you.

    Drilling off Massachusetts won't help sate the thirst, and we won't win this chopping down trees. As someone that was fired on by government troops during Chave's first coupe (I was there working as a tour guide) and who has been to North Africa I can say with some personal conviction
    that we cannot Delta Force our way out.

    The die was cast a long time ago. Elect whichever cartoon president you want.


    $10 a gallon gas is coming boys, and far greater. Enjoy the twilight.

    Adam

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    Last edited by taxonomy; 03-18-08 at 12:09 AM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Ok but how soon

    inflation would make it eventually but then your salary will be 250K.

    The only 2 technologies that can maintain our standard of living are:

    Burning Coal that we have hundreds of years worth.

    Fission nuclear plants we could build

    We all know that every lefty is against both of those because bad things "might" happen. NY and Hollywood left will wrap themselves in their Gaea religion while your grandparents freeze and starve.

    Their Turkey Lurkey and Marie Antoinette attitudes will eventually kill millions
    Our families being numbered amongst the dead

    Have a nice democratic day

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  8. #108
    Lifer
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Only way it's going to to work is to reduce consumption stop trying to rationalize a way to keep your current lifestyle. Trailering gas powered toys with monster trucks is going to be over. Going and riding 300 miles to nowhere on a saturday with a massively overpowered bike is probably going to be over.

    Move somewhere you can walk/bicycle to work, groceries, etc.. hope your company can survive if gas goes through the roof.

    $10 gas, $20 gas.. will it kill Walmart with their zero-inventory & fleet of 18-wheelers on the road? How much is food going to cost? How much is all that stuff coming on a giant boat from China going to cost?

    Clayton can live in the sticks and heat with wood but is he so far out that he won't be able to afford food or be able to work?

    We're going to get stuck reshaping the country so we all live & work close together to reduce consumption.. it's going to suck.

    Depending on who you listen to it's either going to suck or it's REALLY going to suck.

    We've fucked ourselves far far more then other developed nations.. we probably need the $5-6 gas sooner rather then later so we can start to adapt before the shit really hits the fan.

    So if they dividing the Iraq war costs up among all US citizens I wonder how much gas that would have bought each of us.. or how many miles of rail line we could have repaired/built.

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  9. #109
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Quote Originally Posted by benVFR View Post
    Clayton can live in the sticks and heat with wood but is he so far out that he won't be able to afford food or be able to work?
    I'm 20 minutes from my current job. I spend about $40 every week and a half driving to work, going out to eat once a week and usually driving around quite a bit one weekend day. That is driving a small 4x4 pickup that gets relatively poor gas milage (20mpg on a good tank). I have three other competing companies within 15 miles of my current employer.

    What I saved by purchasing a REASONABLY priced home is enough to make me comfortable for quite a while, even with a decrease in pay or loss of second income.

    BTW, there is more locally grown/raised food in my town than in any town you likely commute through, live or work. Release the mindset that being near a metropolis is the only way to survive when the economy takes a dump. I find that to be quite opposite from the truth. The only towns that died during the last recession were the ones with the overbearing property "values" without tangible reason. My 20 minute commute now covers the same distance it would of taken me to go from Natick to Waltham in 45 minutes. A community that holds itself in reasonable proportions with agriculture, industry and service businesses isn't as naked in the wind to transportation costs as a bustling metropolis full of people/goods and service that needs to be trucked in for every last mouth to feed or shelf to stock.

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  10. #110
    Just Registered ChrisNoF4i's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Isn't it funny when people feel the need to answer a rhetorical question?

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  11. #111
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas


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  12. #112
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Quote Originally Posted by benVFR View Post

    We're going to get stuck reshaping the country so we all live & work close together to reduce consumption.. it's going to suc
    .
    There are huge economies that we can get right now. There is the awesome technology that saves a ton of energy, about .79 eveny time you do a load of wash. Your grandmother used it. Its called a clothesline.

    The thing is we've been doing things in a wasteful way. Now it's time to change that.

    The thing is we don't have most of oil (we have 2%) but we use a lot (about 25%) the people that have it are not interested in giving it away. They have proven very adept at making it hard to take away.



    Eventually that country that makes the most GPD per gallon will do best.


    So, wasteful practices must stop. My motorcycle gets 50 MPG, I live in a smallish town with local services close to me. I make many trips to the store by bicycle. I walk to town to see movies. I commute to work by bike (motorized or not) I'm no sending money to Chad and Saudi Arabia.

    That spike, say $25 gas, could occur any time. The House of Saud is riven with problems. There will be a messy, messy monarchical power stuggle when this old guard dies off. A lot of people that hate those guys, there are thousands of princes.

    Every time you accelerate to hard, every time you drive alone, some of that money goes to Osamma.

    There are some very simple technologies for solar home heating and most roofs can me photovoltic. I bought my house because of it's orientation to the sun, in part. We need real energy independence for America. I'm doing my part now.

    I'm buying two 20,000 BTU (on a bright day) made in Methuen warm air solar heating panels for installation on my house. Wave that flag.

    Honestly, are you really up for mountain top removal on a massive scale for coal? When you dig that stuff up other things come with it that get in the water supply and in the air. Are you up for tons of mercury in the milk supply?

    Are you really going to protect that reactor or waste dump for the next 100 years, 1000 years, 10,0000 years? Is this possible?

    If we get to clean, renewable technologies of the future and patent them America will stay rich. In the mean time we need to reduce our exposure and not use so much fossil fuel, no consume so much, not send so many jobs over seas, think a little more.

    We're writing checks we can't cash.

    Adam

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    Last edited by taxonomy; 03-19-08 at 07:25 AM.

  13. #113
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisNoF4i View Post
    Isn't it funny when people feel the need to answer a rhetorical question?
    I will do everything I can to never let this thread die.

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  14. #114
    Lifer richw's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Adam

    Especially if you heat water with electricity you should look at supplemental solar hot water.

    You use hot water in the summer where the solar is best warm air in new england not so much

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  15. #115
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    This is new "technology" I was at the Green Building Conference in Boston last week. It's sort of like Trobe wall and a little like TAP panels. It's pretty proven technology. I know an architect that installed some in an outbuilding in Ashfield. They're also cheap (around $1600 ea) and easily installed. No running plumbing to the roof.

    Anyhow, you have to see it coming. You have to just stand back and think about it. Putin controls the gas and much of the oil pipelines from Central Asia to the west. China is very close to central Asia and what may be the largest natural gas reserves. Via Afghanistan also not so far from the mid east. Those people may be nuts.

    The Mideast is pretty spooky and the foundation it's built on was built by crazy people.

    This is a true story. At the secret conference in France where the Europeans were divvying the collapsed Ottoman Empire all of the chief negotiators died of the 1918 flu. Because of the secret nature (from US Pres. Wilson) of the conference they accepted the provisional maps proforma. The more you know about it the less you'll want to base any future on that region. Get the f' out.

    Take responsibility for your energy needs as much as you can. Be responsible. Ride to work.

    $10 gas will be cheap, and not when my income goes into the stratosphere.

    The Clinton years featured oil around $20 a barrel. it bottomed out at about $8. The economy soared. Coincidence? Sure, it's multifactoral, I admit. So, in essence world supply is questionable for many, may reasons.

    It may be a strategic error to pull out BUT It's not in anyones interest to see that area go to pot. Maybe a real multinational force will have to move in. Maybe the emerging giants of China and Russia will step in and take some of the role of keeping the area stable?

    You think China wants to see and end to cheap oil? You think Russia wants chaos so close to Chechnya? Nope. Everyone benefits from America's policing of the Mideast. We've been a patsy and whipping boy footing the bill. If they like cheap oil so much to make lead tainted toys step right up.

    Maybe others will look after it. Not every problem requires an American solution.

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  16. #116
    lost in space zombie's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    well thought out reasoning Adam
    +1 for effort

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  17. #117
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Russia whole current economy is based on high oil prices.

    They are exporters and would be happy if the towel heads act even crazier.

    Maybe our real mistake was that Saddam kept the Saudis and Kuwait's piss scared so they were our friends now they are not so worried

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  18. #118
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    I believe you grossly underestimate the history of Russia and a Caucus region. Chechnya, Azerbaijan, and by extension Yugoslavia are not at all aberrations. The Russians know that widespread ethnic and or religious revolt in the area would be putting a match to tinderbox. The "stans" e.g Turkmenistan etc. are more or less strongman regimes a la Saddam's Iraq and form a buffer zone for the USSR.

    Also the Russian memory of "operation Barbarossa" Hitler's superfabulous foray into Russia are still pretty fresh. That was basically the first resource war. Hitler was after the oil fields east of Stalingrad. There were a staggering million casualties at Stalingrad alone. Take a look at a list of the top casualties of all battles ever and see where Hitler's drive east ranks, it is totally unreal. Nobody, nobody knows the cost of all out resource war better than the Russians. May I add that this was done with piston driven aircraft and bolt action rifles.

    As long and the US polices the region the Russians are free to criticize our actions and not foot the bill. The extent to which we could blackmail Russia with this potential chaos is astronomical.

    This, of course means that we would have to have a solution to a problem that was not 100% (in reality) American troops.

    Bush 1 failure in Gulf War round 1 was not waiting and building an international recognition that everyone has to chip in to stabilize the sitation. We should have let Kuwait burn until it hurt China and Europe. Then we should have moved with real multinational backing. I mean real.

    Now with the US staggering around like a white boxer in a heavyweight title fight, just being punished round after round by an opponent that wont send us to the matt everyone there knows that the effect of behaving badly is pretty low. There is no credible threat for the Palistianians or the Iranians. Everyone is like, "oh, the Americans will deal with it."

    I have no problem with making sure there is a western military presence to make sure that the whole of science based civilization doesn't go in the shitter becuase the bastard child of the Ottoman Empire burns to the ground. We just could have been waaaaaaaay smarter about it.

    Fuck all. If you're going to talk about the price of gas and international politics you have to talk about the fact that the oil is sold through two exchanges that deal only in dollars and how that effects borrowing and the M1. You have to talk how OPEC works with that. You have to talk about how the neocons drove down the food for oil because it threatend to trade oil in Euros, you have to talk about how China was tryign to buy long term futures in Yen, you have to talk about how Chevron had the Taliban to Texas when negotiating the pipeline through Afghanistan.

    $10 gas? ha.

    Pick your cartoon president but ride to work.

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    Last edited by taxonomy; 03-19-08 at 09:11 PM.
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  19. #119
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    another well reasoned post thank you and you have said it much better than I could.

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  20. #120
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Adam

    Let me bring it home...

    One of the three Obama, Hillary or John Mc Cain will be the next President.

    Of those three and their purported middle east policies which one would bring about higher gas prices faster.

    Obviously now my vote is Obamacadabra

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  21. #121
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Wow, that's very Porter Goss of you. What's he up to these days anyhow? Isn't he living in a 3 bedroom flat with Bill Krystal and Joe Lieberman in the newly gentrified Alphabet City? The whole think is kinda 1998, isn't it?

    Anyhow, check out Baker-Hamilton. At least that's '06


    On the topic of gas prices, since there's a bottle neck at refining the price per barrel has nothing like a 1:1 ratio for oil prices. I care little about price spikes soon. You're talking tactics, I am talking strategy. I'm talking fuels, you're talking gas.

    Everyone except a deselect few is Baker-Hamilton these days. Porter, Bill and Joe are hardly A list anymore. They'd have trouble getting invites to the Bear Stearns Company picnic.

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  22. #122
    Lifer richw's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Engine room...Make smoke

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  23. #123
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas


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  24. #124
    I like my cool old bike. Ericthejet's Avatar
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Just buy oil from Canada. Easier to ship it south and slim chance of turmoil back home unless it's the NHL playoffs time of year.

    "Canada's proven oil reserves were estimated at 179 billion barrels (28109 m3) in 2007. This figure includes oil sands reserves which are estimated by government regulators to be economically producible at current prices using current technology.[1] According to this figure, Canada's reserves are second only to Saudi Arabia. Over 95% of these reserves are in the oil sands deposits in the province of Alberta. [2] Alberta contains nearly all of Canada's oil sands and much of its conventional oil reserves. The balance is concentrated in several other provinces and territories. Saskatchewan and offshore areas of Newfoundland in particular have substantial oil production and reserves.[3] Alberta has 39% of Canada's remaining conventional oil reserves, Saskatchewan 27% and offshore Newfoundland 28%, but if oil sands are included, Alberta's share is over 98%"

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  25. #125
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    Re: Obama means $10 gas

    Give him time boys, give him time.

    Ban on offshore drilling, carbon cap and trade stopping coal, mid east pull out, ban on Nuke plants, reinvigorated EPA should offset the economic slump.

    I am still happy with my new civic but I will admit that I didn't think his upcoming election would bring the world economy to its knees
    ----1/2 joke

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