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President Elect: Joseph R Biden

  1. #776
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden


    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Do you actually talk to people that build things that mean a 16 foot 2x4 when they say 2x4? Cause if so, you live in a very different world.
    Randy hails from a time and place where balloon framing is the state of the art.

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  2. #777
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Randy hails from a time and place where balloon framing is the state of the art.
    that is how my barn is framed, all milled from pine in my backyard foundation is cut into the slope, with the exception of window & door cutouts, I used 20' 2x6 sides graduated from 14' to 8' and backwall has 8' from foundation to begining of roof, sheathing under the vinyl, is 1x8 routed on each side for ˝" shiplap and nailed to the frame at 45°, lot of waste..... I had more sawdust than I knew what to do with, I got a good mushroom farm today, sawdust from the original milling, from my routing about 6000 linear ft of 1x8, and sawing , sawing and more sawing

    because I used balloon framing, I ended up with one large cavern inside with no beams or supports from the floor, but a LVL beam across the top

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  3. #778
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    mmmmm.... mushrooms

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  4. #779
    daideó Rambunctous's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Randy hails from a time and place where balloon framing is the state of the art.
    Randy came from a time where only commies censored the news.

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  5. #780
    daideó Rambunctous's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    81 million votes.....LOL sure he did


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  6. #781
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    How about that lumber pricing?

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  7. #782
    RelentlessC SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    The prices of commodities, and many other things are not connected to, nor the fault of either Trump or Biden.

    They are Covid driven and have shamefully exposed the fragility of our supply chain. For decades, corporations have seen inventory as a cash draining liability, eliminated safety stocks and forged a JIT system that consistently shift pressures upstream. This works for short term profits and lower consumer prices, as long as everything works as it should. But it has huge vulnerabilities, as we all have seen.

    The two “blames” have to do with:

    1. a lack of prior action to shore up supply chains. All of these companies routinely run simulations of various problem scenarios, but when shown the investment needed to prevent the impact of a Covid-sized crisis, choose short term profits over long term investment.

    2. The extremely poor governmental efforts under the Trump administration to control the spread of the virus, limit it’s spread and convince a great number of Trump’s supporters that this was real, it was serious, and that all of their “patriotism” needed to be put behind efforts to protect themselves and others. That cat was out of the barn long before Biden took office.

    As an opinion, I believe that Trump might have actually considered taking this tack, but in the face of all the prior messaging to his base, he feared that even he might lose them if he took the “believe the evidence and the experts” approach. I’m sure his ego played a part in this, because I’m sure he couldn’t stand anyone else but himself in the spotlight. He doubled-down on dumb for months and months as the virus gained momentum it never should have been able to gain. As a result, we have a longer timeline, more opportunity for variants to develop and keep developing, more cost both monetarily and in all other ways to the nation and a much longer economic recovery period to anything resembling normal.

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  8. #783
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    to me, lumber comes in 16 ft lengths, it's the length logs are cut into lumber, shorter lumber is after cutting off knots and wain or from logs the were too shitty to be cut into 16˝ footers

    no, builders don't think of twisted warped Home Depot lumber that is cut to 8ft cause it is so shitty
    sorry that I posted a Home Depot link, lumberyards that sell quality lumber don't post their prices online
    Ok, got it, but the rest of the world doesn't use balloon framing. In fact 2x4s are mainly interior now and have little need to be 16 feet. I get that you're into lumber and logging but most of the world doesn't talk about 16 footers.

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  9. #784
    RelentlessC SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Ok, got it, but the rest of the world doesn't use balloon framing. In fact 2x4s are mainly interior now and have little need to be 16 feet. I get that you're into lumber and logging but most of the world doesn't talk about 16 footers.
    To Randy, there is no, “rest of the world”

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  10. #785
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    The prices of commodities, and many other things are not connected to, nor the fault of either Trump or Biden.

    They are Covid driven and have shamefully exposed the fragility of our supply chain. For decades, corporations have seen inventory as a cash draining liability, eliminated safety stocks and forged a JIT system that consistently shift pressures upstream. This works for short term profits and lower consumer prices, as long as everything works as it should. But it has huge vulnerabilities, as we all have seen.

    The two “blames” have to do with:

    1. a lack of prior action to shore up supply chains. All of these companies routinely run simulations of various problem scenarios, but when shown the investment needed to prevent the impact of a Covid-sized crisis, choose short term profits over long term investment.

    2. The extremely poor governmental efforts under the Trump administration to control the spread of the virus, limit it’s spread and convince a great number of Trump’s supporters that this was real, it was serious, and that all of their “patriotism” needed to be put behind efforts to protect themselves and others. That cat was out of the barn long before Biden took office.

    As an opinion, I believe that Trump might have actually considered taking this tack, but in the face of all the prior messaging to his base, he feared that even he might lose them if he took the “believe the evidence and the experts” approach. I’m sure his ego played a part in this, because I’m sure he couldn’t stand anyone else but himself in the spotlight. He doubled-down on dumb for months and months as the virus gained momentum it never should have been able to gain. As a result, we have a longer timeline, more opportunity for variants to develop and keep developing, more cost both monetarily and in all other ways to the nation and a much longer economic recovery period to anything resembling normal.
    Of course. Everything we do is to push money up. Middle class has been loosing the fight against inflation for 40 years. Money is still being made though

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  11. #786
    RelentlessC SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Of course. Everything we do is to push money up. Middle class has been loosing the fight against inflation for 40 years. Money is still being made though
    Money will always be made, but I know way too many people making way too much money in ways that economists describe as “rent-taking” who are firmly convinced that we probably should tax rich people more, as long as it begins at the level just above theirs.

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  12. #787
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Money will always be made, but I know way too many people making way too much money in ways that economists describe as “rent-taking” who are firmly convinced that we probably should tax rich people more, as long as it begins at the level just above theirs.
    Example, please.

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  13. #788
    RelentlessC SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Example, please.
    Young neighbors who sold their Southie condo and paid $950k for the $600k house next store, 2 investment analysts (rent-takers), full time nanny, summer in Nantucket.

    Fin-tech (rent-taker) CEO with 2 unbelievable homes letting his kid collect stimulus unemployment while summering up north who is constantly worried about taxes

    Professor colleague who also has two homes, “I took the company public” money and is convinced that 39.6% marginal federal tax rates are confiscatory, despite having been a CPA tax specialist when the top marginal rate was 70%. He’s also refused to get vaccinated, got Covid this fall, it almost killed him and he blamed the healthcare system.

    …I only have so much time, but I could also list about 30% of the population of my town…

    all of them are good people, but their firmly stuck in, “the government probably needs more money, but it has to come dfrom somebody else.”

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    Last edited by SteveM; 10-11-21 at 10:15 AM.

  14. #789
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Ok, got it, but the rest of the world doesn't use balloon framing. In fact 2x4s are mainly interior now and have little need to be 16 feet. I get that you're into lumber and logging but most of the world doesn't talk about 16 footers.
    And totally in the know about current industry wide lumber pricing.

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  15. #790

    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Ok, got it, but the rest of the world doesn't use balloon framing. In fact 2x4s are mainly interior now and have little need to be 16 feet. I get that you're into lumber and logging but most of the world doesn't talk about 16 footers.
    It is Randy’s world. We just live in it.

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  16. #791
    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    Young neighbors who sold their Southie condo and paid $950k for the $600k house next store, 2 investment analysts (rent-takers), full time nanny, summer in Nantucket.

    Fin-tech (rent-taker) CEO with 2 unbelievable homes letting his kid collect stimulus unemployment while summering up north who is constantly worried about taxes

    Professor colleague who also has two homes, “I took the company public” money and is convinced that 39.6% marginal federal tax rates are confiscatory, despite having been a CPA tax specialist when the top marginal rate was 70%. He’s also refused to get vaccinated, got Covid this fall, it almost killed him and he blamed the healthcare system.

    …I only have so much time, but I could also list about 30% of the population of my town…

    all of them are good people, but their firmly stuck in, “the government probably needs more money, but it has to come dfrom somebody else.”
    I would also not put any of them in the middle class. People generally have delusions on where they exist on the gradient of wealth in the country. My point was simply that the middle class once meant that mom didn't work, had a home, had a car and went on vacation. Wages have not paced inflation and that is now only reality for the wealthy or a family where someone works 2 jobs.

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  17. #792
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    I would also not put any of them in the middle class. People generally have delusions on where they exist on the gradient of wealth in the country. My point was simply that the middle class once meant that mom didn't work, had a home, had a car and went on vacation. Wages have not paced inflation and that is now only reality for the wealthy or a family where someone works 2 jobs.
    Now middle class means both parents work, can barely afford healthcare/daycare/mortgage, but they "have it so well cause they have a cellphone".

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  18. #793
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    Ok, got it, but the rest of the world doesn't use balloon framing. In fact 2x4s are mainly interior now and have little need to be 16 feet. I get that you're into lumber and logging but most of the world doesn't talk about 16 footers.
    I did mine with 2x6s.... cause it's code (or spend $$$ in expensive insulation to get R value)

    you bring up a point, the majority of 2x4 use isn't even 8ft, it's 7ft 9in. 16ft 2x4s are used for top and bottom pieces, headers, etc 8ft 2x4s are not used anywhere unless the tape measure comes to that length when you do your measure twice cut once

    and steel studs generally come in 10ft lengths, why is that ?

    you walk in Home Depot aisles too much, go to a real lumber supply, where the professional builders go

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  19. #794
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I did mine with 2x6s.... cause it's code (or spend $$$ in expensive insulation to get R value)

    you bring up a point, the majority of 2x4 use isn't even 8ft, it's 7ft 9in. 16ft 2x4s are used for top and bottom pieces, headers, etc 8ft 2x4s are not used anywhere unless the tape measure comes to that length when you do your measure twice cut once

    and steel studs generally come in 10ft lengths, why is that ?

    you walk in Home Depot aisles too much, go to a real lumber supply, where the professional builders go
    And how much were those 2x6's on January 19th, 2021 compared to now, Randy?

    Or are you pulling a Trump.

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  20. #795
    RelentlessC SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
    I would also not put any of them in the middle class. People generally have delusions on where they exist on the gradient of wealth in the country. My point was simply that the middle class once meant that mom didn't work, had a home, had a car and went on vacation. Wages have not paced inflation and that is now only reality for the wealthy or a family where someone works 2 jobs.

    I never mentioned middle class, just way too many people who should know how well they have it, yet still think the next richest guy is the one who should pony up

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  21. #796
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    I did mine with 2x6s.... cause it's code (or spend $$$ in expensive insulation to get R value)

    you bring up a point, the majority of 2x4 use isn't even 8ft, it's 7ft 9in. 16ft 2x4s are used for top and bottom pieces, headers, etc 8ft 2x4s are not used anywhere unless the tape measure comes to that length when you do your measure twice cut once

    and steel studs generally come in 10ft lengths, why is that ?

    you walk in Home Depot aisles too much, go to a real lumber supply, where the professional builders go
    You brought up 8 footers then argued against yourself and lost. You're an odd duck man. When some one mentions the price of 2x4s 99% of the population are not talking about 16 footers. Just you and the other 6 guys that use 16 foot top and bottom plates for interior walls.

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  22. #797
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    I haven't read that particular report, but the discussions on Inflation with the Fed I've heard on the radio all note that the particular rates they're claiming are not based on raw costs, but that tempered by how much of those increases they think are transitory vs never going to revert. Net result the rate is lower than what you feel at the pocketbook today, 'cause the belief is this isn't going to stick in general. I'm curious if the BLS uses the same methodolgy?
    BLS does use what they call "Intervention Analysis in Seasonal Adjustment". It's not something new, they have always made an adjustment when pricing of a good is a 'temporary outlier'. They have done it for Covid-19 changing prices both up an down temporarily. I found items included in the adjustment, but not the amounts of adjustments. But I seriously doubt that the adjustments decrease the reported food inflation rate by ~25% (the difference between the 4% they listed and Randy's 30% increase).

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  23. #798
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    And how much were those 2x6's on January 19th, 2021 compared to now, Randy?

    Or are you pulling a Trump.
    dunno about Jan 19th, but when I started building my workbench at the end of March, 8' 2x6s were $18, but I found some rough cut 6x6s for $17.57 (remainder of an old shipment, a week later the 6x6s were $27.57)

    I just checked for price and for 8' 2x6s I got "sorry, this product is not in stock"

    so I guess, they are not available at any price... what ta fuck does that say about price, ya, I'm gonna be cutting down a few trees and having a neighbor mill it for me a 2x4 will be 75˘ +sweat

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  24. #799

    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    dunno about Jan 19th, but when I started building my workbench at the end of March, 8' 2x6s were $18, but I found some rough cut 6x6s for $17.57 (remainder of an old shipment, a week later the 6x6s were $27.57)

    I just checked for price and for 8' 2x6s I got "sorry, this product is not in stock"

    so I guess, they are not available at any price... what ta fuck does that say about price, ya, I'm gonna be cutting down a few trees and having a neighbor mill it for me a 2x4 will be 75˘ +sweat
    Impossible.

    Capitalism dictates that things are priced only at what people are willing to pay for them, making it fair value.

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  25. #800
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    Re: President Elect: Joseph R Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    Impossible.

    Capitalism dictates that things are priced only at what people are willing to pay for them, making it fair value.
    That's true in theory, but often not in practice

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