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View Poll Results: Who d'ya vote for?

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  • Clinton

    17 24.64%
  • Trump

    11 15.94%
  • Johnson

    31 44.93%
  • Stein

    1 1.45%
  • Other

    1 1.45%
  • Will not vote

    3 4.35%
  • Beet is Naked

    4 5.80%
  • Bemused

    1 1.45%
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Results 126 to 143 of 143

Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

  1. #126
    Fast is contagious JettaJayGLS's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll


    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    He's terrible at on-the-spot questions. You can almost hear his brain freeze while he mentally stumbles in circles for a bit while he works it out. And I'm pretty okay with that. I have a hard time believing many important decisions need to be made so quickly. Meanwhile, Trump and Clinton have a team of people prepping them on what the questions might be (and in Clinton's case, she was even given some of the questions in advance). I don't understand the emphasis on the ability to pass a pop-quiz. I get that value, but especially in the current circumstances, I think it's ranked way too high.
    None of this matters at this point, but I'd like to respond anyway.

    You're right. It is likely that most decisions do not depend on a pop-quiz type answer. But you are kidding yourself if you look past the fact that the President is in a people facing roll, and being able to interact with real people with a microphone and TV cameras in your face is part of the job. Handling diplomatic relationships is also in the job description, which I assume includes speaking to foreign leaders, and ya know, knowing their names.

    Yes, we can all be stumped at times, I completely get it, but let me bring my concern with Johnson down to a relate-able level that may help express my opinion:

    All of us have likely interviewed for a job or have interviewed someone for a job. Many jobs (such as mine) do not require on-the-spot answers at all times. This does not change the fact that during the interview the interviewer is looking for on-the-spot answers. They don't need to be right answers, they just need to be something that shows the interviewee can at least speak to the subject.

    As the interviewee, you prepare for the interview. You may be the smartest or most qualified candidate, but if you do not prepare for the interview or have enough raw smarts/talent to make it through the interview, than you will not get the job. Coming in to anything without a game plan presents as laziness. If you really want the job, you will prepare. If you don't take it seriously and don't "play the game," why would I want to hire you?

    Like I said before, "Maybe its his choice, maybe its a lack of preparedness, or maybe its just choking up. None of these are a valid excuse." If he was sincere about being president, he would play the game.

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  2. #127
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    Like I said before, "Maybe its his choice, maybe its a lack of preparedness, or maybe its just choking up. None of these are a valid excuse." If he was sincere about being president, he would play the game.
    Ohhhhh Phil gon get you and you gon learn

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  3. #128
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    ... which I assume includes speaking to foreign leaders, and ya know, knowing their names. ...
    This, however, is exactly the kind of BS statement that shows that you weren't paying enough attention to know what he said, or knows, or what his strengths, weaknesses, and policies are. If you're going to claim to have a valid opinion on someone or something, your own knowledge should be more than meme-deep.

    The question wasn't "name a random foreign leader"; it was to "name a current world leader that you respect". That's a very different question, and one that a libertarian would quite reasonably not have a quick answer for. There aren't many world leaders out there who are at all libertarian in their outlook or policies. He did, after some stumbling, come up with Vicente Fox, who, while not current, did make some worthwhile reforms and clean up some corruption in Mexico.

    PhilB

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  4. #129
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Called it

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  5. #130
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    Called it
    Yay for you.

    PhilB

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  6. #131
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    This, however, is exactly the kind of BS statement that shows that you weren't paying enough attention to know what he said, or knows, or what his strengths, weaknesses, and policies are. If you're going to claim to have a valid opinion on someone or something, your own knowledge should be more than meme-deep.

    The question wasn't "name a random foreign leader"; it was to "name a current world leader that you respect". That's a very different question, and one that a libertarian would quite reasonably not have a quick answer for. There aren't many world leaders out there who are at all libertarian in their outlook or policies. He did, after some stumbling, come up with Vicente Fox, who, while not current, did make some worthwhile reforms and clean up some corruption in Mexico.

    PhilB
    I've made the caveat a few times that I am not 100% informed. That said, I completely understand the questions that were asked of Johnson in that interview, the order in which the questions unfolded, and have watched the video twice. I actually won't watch it again...its too painfully awkward, kind of like watching Meet the Parents.

    My point here is that he was unable to negotiate a conversation. He was unable to negotiate a conversation on a topic a presidential candidate should have reasonable knowledge of. He probably wasn't prepared with an answer. He may not respect any foreign leader. It doesn't defeat the purpose that he could not professionally negotiate the conversation. You mention that he came up with Fox, but that was after Weld queued him up for it. After messing up the Aleppo incident, he should have been ready to spin that shit back on douchebag Matthews, right in his face.

    Like I said, I forgave him after the Aleppo moment. I actually stood up for him during conversations when it came up. But fool me once....

    I enjoy reading your posts. They're typically very eloquently written and factual. They're very informal and by the end I usually find myself questioning what I thought I believe in. I understand that you strongly support the libertarian party and our constitution. I've also learned, in my short 28 years on this planet, that just because something is eloquently presented and presumably expresses all the good and bad points about a topic, doesn't mean he isn't leaving something out. It also does not mean that I can't have my own opinion and turn over my own stones. For you to claim that these 2 altercations do not show that Johnson has his flaws is no different than a Trump or Hillary supporter saying their candidate is perfect. I clearly pointed out what I like and don't like about candidates....that's actually a lie...I didn't do so for Trump and HRC because it had already been clearly stated earlier in this thread. I did feel the need to present my opinion on Johnson as the majority of this thread supports him (based on the poll) but little has been spoken to his flaws.

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  7. #132
    Lifer
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    It is likely that most decisions do not depend on a pop-quiz type answer. But you are kidding yourself if you look past the fact that the President is in a people facing roll, and being able to interact with real people with a microphone and TV cameras in your face is part of the job. Handling diplomatic relationships is also in the job description, which I assume includes speaking to foreign leaders, and ya know, knowing their names.
    His public speaking skills are on the 'con' list for him. But have you ever actually listened to him speak outside of the canned situations the news presents? IMO he does quite a bit better. Though if you listen to him more than a few times you'll notice he has a few issues he dwells on a bit too much. He can sometimes speak in dramatic ways too. I think he knows he's being dramatic, but sometimes doesn't come off that way if you don't know his nuances.

    Maybe I'm naive when I say that I don't think President Obama knows the names of every important person in the room. He's got someone beside him giving him notes, or, he's just polite and tries not to reveal that he doesn't know. He has speech writers, and a teleprompter for some TV appearances. A lot of his public speaking is planned in advance, and done to his schedule. I think that's in part because of the American public's unreasonable expectation that he be perfect at it.

    That said, I agree it's a people facing job. Some social skills and memorized knowledge is required in some way. I just think people over-state just how much is required, and don't realize how much of the better 'spoken' candidate's appearances are carefully crafted.
    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    All of us have likely interviewed for a job or have interviewed someone for a job. Many jobs (such as mine) do not require on-the-spot answers at all times. This does not change the fact that during the interview the interviewer is looking for on-the-spot answers. They don't need to be right answers, they just need to be something that shows the interviewee can at least speak to the subject.

    As the interviewee, you prepare for the interview. You may be the smartest or most qualified candidate, but if you do not prepare for the interview or have enough raw smarts/talent to make it through the interview, than you will not get the job. Coming in to anything without a game plan presents as laziness. If you really want the job, you will prepare. If you don't take it seriously and don't "play the game," why would I want to hire you?
    I think it's interesting you use interviews as an example, because I think there's a growing sentiment that our interview system is broken. That middle management and HR bureaucrats screwed it up. That there is an over emphasis on academic-like testing questions, instead of ability to apply knowledge. I don't know that there's a clear answer as to how we should do interviews, just that the way we do them now is wrong. I think the answer is a 'moderation' issue. The quiz game isn't wrong, it's overvaluing the results of the quiz.

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  8. #133
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    ... For you to claim that these 2 altercations do not show that Johnson has his flaws is no different than a Trump or Hillary supporter saying their candidate is perfect. I clearly pointed out what I like and don't like about candidates....that's actually a lie...I didn't do so for Trump and HRC because it had already been clearly stated earlier in this thread. I did feel the need to present my opinion on Johnson as the majority of this thread supports him (based on the poll) but little has been spoken to his flaws.
    I never claimed that Johnson isn't flawed. I objected to the raising of a claimed flaw that was inaccurately presented. I also am befuddled by people bringing this flaw up repeatedly as a deal-breaker on voting for him, given the context of this election. It's kind of like having a choice for lunch between bowls of cat shit, dog shit, or cereal -- and refusing to pick the cereal because there's a fly on it. Yep, that fly is icky, and is a real flaw in your cereal, but compared to the typhoon-level shitstorms of H and T, it's totally inconsequential.

    PhilB

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  9. #134
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Seems appropriate to mention that George Bush Jr, the one everyone thought was a dummy, was allegedly extremely intelligent in person. Remembered everyone's names, had read all the relevant material, remembered it all. Supposedly the dummy persona was the act.

    It'll be interesting to see how it plays out with Trump. I have no doubt he went all out with the pandering, turning his persona up to 11. I wonder if he'll stick to it. I'm cautiously optimistic on that. I think, and hope, that he'll realize he can't act that way in the real world.

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  10. #135
    Fast is contagious JettaJayGLS's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post

    I think it's interesting you use interviews as an example, because I think there's a growing sentiment that our interview system is broken. That middle management and HR bureaucrats screwed it up. That there is an over emphasis on academic-like testing questions, instead of ability to apply knowledge. I don't know that there's a clear answer as to how we should do interviews, just that the way we do them now is wrong. I think the answer is a 'moderation' issue. The quiz game isn't wrong, it's overvaluing the results of the quiz.
    I am not up to date on this, but I think a good interviewer can spin an academic testing question into a great opportunity to apply knowledge they have. Especially if they do not have the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    I never claimed that Johnson isn't flawed. I objected to the raising of a claimed flaw that was inaccurately presented. I also am befuddled by people bringing this flaw up repeatedly as a deal-breaker on voting for him, given the context of this election. It's kind of like having a choice for lunch between bowls of cat shit, dog shit, or cereal -- and refusing to pick the cereal because there's a fly on it. Yep, that fly is icky, and is a real flaw in your cereal, but compared to the typhoon-level shitstorms of H and T, it's totally inconsequential.

    PhilB
    At first glance, this is a great analogy. Where this analogy fails is that you assume I don't like cat or dog shit. Nor does it reflect what I may think about flys.

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  11. #136
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    At first glance, this is a great analogy. Where this analogy fails is that you assume I don't like cat or dog shit. Nor does it reflect what I may think about flys.
    Yes, it is. The analogy doesn't fail on that point, you are free to eat shit if that's what you want. Many Americans did. The analogy doesn't address whose people; those people weren't worrying about Gary's flaws. The point is that if you don't like shit; it's dumb to choose it over cereal-with-a-fly on the "reasoning" that you're upset about the fact that the fly has touched shit.

    PhilB

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  12. #137
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    Yes, it is. The analogy doesn't fail on that point, you are free to eat shit if that's what you want. Many Americans did. The analogy doesn't address whose people; those people weren't worrying about Gary's flaws. The point is that if you don't like shit; it's dumb to choose it over cereal-with-a-fly on the "reasoning" that you're upset about the fact that the fly has touched shit.

    PhilB
    I've weighed the strengths and weaknesses of all candidates and chose the one based on what I find important. Go back to my original post. I believe HRC is the most qualified presidential candidate we have ever had. If she did not have such a pedigree in politics, then I would not have voted for her. Gary has, what I consider a major flaw. Take this flaw out, and I would have voted for him.

    I find that when you net the good and the bad of HRC, you get a better net candidate than Johnson.

    In your analogy, dog shit to you may be cereal to me. A fly to you may be a wasp to me. I could spit back the analogy that I chose a steak with 10 flies instead of a bowl of cereal with 1 fly. Maybe flies don't bother me, so I'll eat the steak. If you don't like steak, then you won't eat steak. If you like steak and cereal, but hate flies, you eat the cereal with less flies.

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  13. #138
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Sorry Phil, "a better person" is not a quantitative quality.

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  14. #139
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Regardless of who you supported, if you hate pundits this will make you happy.


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  15. #140
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Sorry Phil, "a better person" is not a quantitative quality.
    <rolleyes> OK, maybe I'll quantify it a bit. How about "not a corrupt unethical amoral cheating warmongering sociopath". Is that better? Pretty clear; includes Johnson and Stein, excludes Hillary and Trump.

    PhilB

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  16. #141
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Have you heard Johnson describe the time he summited My Everest? It's pretty rapey.

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  17. #142
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    We had three wieners and a Wiener to entertain us this year.

    .


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  18. #143
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    Re: Presidential voting - Who and Why and Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    Have you heard Johnson describe the time he summited My Everest? It's pretty rapey.
    Got under her skirt and took a peak.

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