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Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

  1. #101

    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana


    darn!!!

    massachusettsmarijuana and massachusettsrecreationalmarijuana.com are both taken!!

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  2. #102
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    I tried a half-assed qualification of better wth the quotes..
    But anyway, your experiences and outlook may be much different than mine, I'm pretty optomistic about today and tomorrow.
    That's missing the point. I'm in a great spot. I'm very lucky. My or your life experience does not change facts and the norms facing everyone.

    What better metric do we have than the educational and financial opportunities we leave to our children as a measure of success?

    Again, for the first time in nearly 250 years of continual progress and advancement, leaving the next generation better than theirs, the boomers have failed to do the same. Period.

    This is through depressions and recessions; and global wars. There has never been a time an American was born who faced less opportunity than their parents. That cuts through political and economic trickery and I can't imagine a better measure of the success of a generation.

    And it's entirely rooted in greed. Greed of corporations and those who set policy, shortsighted ambivalence and the "I got mine" mentality. The Trumps and the Bloombergs and the Kochs of this country and the politicians they've bought, outnumber the Musks, the Gates', and the politicians with a shred of integrity.

    My only guess is the Boomers never experienced real hardship. Since the end of WWII it has been unbelievable to be an American. The rise of our economy and global position resulted in an inevitable heir of invincibility. Of righteousness. Of being a winner, without ever experiencing loss.

    We get what we want because it's how it always had been and they held the presumption that would continue; without careful thought or foresight, or even looking to the past. The unsustainably of our current economic, housing, employment, health and retirement status quo will eventually come to bear. But don't fret, you got yours. You got an affordable college degree and an affordable house that allowed you a comfortable retirement and to fulfill the American Dream.

    Now, kids face hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt before they're 21. Our inflationary monetary policy of just making more wealth because we think we can, now prevents affordability in nearly every sector of life and all that new money? Went to the biggest banks, the largest corporations, the very entities responsible for crashing our economy were literally gifted millions at taxpayer expense while our roads crumble, people lost homes and retirements, and we're now fighting in 7 major foreign conflicts.

    We went into WWI and WWII begrudgingly. Because back then people had a grasp of how terrible war was and they wanted prosperity for America.

    Now war is profitable, for some. And so much so they can buy anyone they want and the voters continually go along with the propaganda and the distractions manufactured by the media.

    All the while we go without jobs, schools, roads, bridges, mass transit and the very core that makes up the engine of prosperity.

    But they got theirs.

    Who knows, blame s a tough game. But only one generation can wear that badge of honor. That their allowance of this utter gorging among our economic and political elite means their children and grand children will only dream of things like going to college without massive debt, home ownership in their 30's and retiring in their 50's or 60's.

    Like it or not that is the America we live in today. And it sure isn't getting any better. And we continue to see the raping of the land for energy. The up shifting of wealth through economic policy and regulatory environments written by lobbyists.

    The apathy towards all of this from older generations astounds me. You should all be ashamed.

    If you've voted for either of the major candidates in the last 4 elections, you are part of the problem. Doesn't matter which one you voted for. If you don't pay attention to local politics and vote, you are part of the problem.

    One thing is for sure. You sure as shit can't blame millennials.

    Bringing this all back on topic. There is no rational or scientific excuse for not supporting legalization. But the alcohol lobby, the law enforcement apparatus, and all the politicians who want to appear "tough on drugs" (and lived through decades of brainwashing, misinformation and propaganda going back to when marijuana was originally scheduled as a drug next to heroin.... literally, to target African Americans) are ambivalent to morality and stubbornly holding onto their twisted values of righteousness that are rooted in racist superiority.... Or are bought out by the Alcohol lobby. You cannot muster a single argument for prohibition that passes scientific scrutiny. There are none.

    And before you decry the race argument laughable. The war on drugs has imprisoned an entire generation of black men. Despite drug use being equal regardless of race. And police (mostly white), judges and lawyers (mostly white) and politicians (mostly white) are getting paid.

    So yeah, if your white and "rich"... Things probably haven't been better.

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    Last edited by scottieducati; 10-28-16 at 08:36 PM.

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  3. #103
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by scottieducati View Post
    That's missing the point. I'm in a great spot. I'm very lucky. My or your life experience does not change facts and the norms facing everyone.

    What better metric do we have than the educational and financial opportunities we leave to our children as a measure of success?

    Again, for the first time in nearly 250 years of continual progress and advancement, leaving the next generation better than theirs, the boomers have failed to do the same. Period.

    This is through depressions and recessions; and global wars. There has never been a time an American was born who faced less opportunity than their parents. That cuts through political and economic trickery and I can't imagine a better measure of the success of a generation.

    And it's entirely rooted in greed. Greed of corporations and those who set policy, shortsighted ambivalence and the "I got mine" mentality. The Trumps and the Bloombergs and the Kochs of this country and the politicians they've bought, outnumber the Musks, the Gates', and the politicians with a shred of integrity.

    My only guess is the Boomers never experienced real hardship. Since the end of WWII it has been unbelievable to be an American. The rise of our economy and global position resulted in an inevitable heir of invincibility. Of righteousness. Of being a winner, without ever experiencing loss.

    We get what we want because it's how it always had been and they held the presumption that would continue; without careful thought or foresight, or even looking to the past. The unsustainably of our current economic, housing, employment, health and retirement status quo will eventually come to bear. But don't fret, you got yours. You got an affordable college degree and an affordable house that allowed you a comfortable retirement and to fulfill the American Dream.

    Now, kids face hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt before they're 21. Our inflationary monetary policy of just making more wealth because we think we can, now prevents affordability in nearly every sector of life and all that new money? Went to the biggest banks, the largest corporations, the very entities responsible for crashing our economy were literally gifted millions at taxpayer expense while our roads crumble, people lost homes and retirements, and we're now fighting in 7 major foreign conflicts.

    We went into WWI and WWII begrudgingly. Because back then people had a grasp of how terrible war was and they wanted prosperity for America.

    Now war is profitable, for some. And so much so they can buy anyone they want and the voters continually go along with the propaganda and the distractions manufactured by the media.

    All the while we go without jobs, schools, roads, bridges, mass transit and the very core that makes up the engine of prosperity.

    But they got theirs.

    Who knows, blame s a tough game. But only one generation can wear that badge of honor. That their allowance of this utter gorging among our economic and political elite means their children and grand children will only dream of things like going to college without massive debt, home ownership in their 30's and retiring in their 50's or 60's.

    Like it or not that is the America we live in today. And it sure isn't getting any better. And we continue to see the raping of the land for energy. The up shifting of wealth through economic policy and regulatory environments written by lobbyists.

    The apathy towards all of this from older generations astounds me. You should all be ashamed.

    If you've voted for either of the major candidates in the last 4 elections, you are part of the problem. Doesn't matter which one you voted for. If you don't pay attention to local politics and vote, you are part of the problem.

    One thing is for sure. You sure as shit can't blame millennials.

    Bringing this all back on topic. There is no rational or scientific excuse for not supporting legalization. But the alcohol lobby, the law enforcement apparatus, and all the politicians who want to appear "tough on drugs" (and lived through decades of brainwashing, misinformation and propaganda going back to when marijuana was originally scheduled as a drug next to heroin.... literally, to target African Americans) are ambivalent to morality and stubbornly holding onto their twisted values of righteousness that are rooted in racist superiority.... Or are bought out by the Alcohol lobby. You cannot muster a single argument for prohibition that passes scientific scrutiny. There are none.

    And before you decry the race argument laughable. The war on drugs has imprisoned an entire generation of black men. Despite drug use being equal regardless of race. And police (mostly white), judges and lawyers (mostly white) and politicians (mostly white) are getting paid.

    So yeah, if your white and "rich"... Things probably haven't been better.
    I changed my mind on q4 because of this, you clearly need easier access to herb to mellow out and find your happy place.

    I personally apologize that my 56 years on the planet getting an education, working hard raising a family, paying taxes, volunteering, coaching and helping in my community have contributed to the destruction of our socio economic infrastructure and poisoned the next generation's hopes for being better educated and making a better life for themselves.

    Or, in other words, GFY. No rational person should be that bitter and wound up with grievances aimed at how everyone else has screwed things up for your generation.

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    Last edited by SteveM; 10-29-16 at 08:05 AM.

  4. #104
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    I changed my mind on q4 because of this, you clearly need easier access to herb to mellow out and find your happy place.

    I personally apologize that my 56 years on the planet getting an education, working hard raising a family, paying taxes, volunteering, coaching and helping in my community have contributed to the destruction of our socio economic infrastructure and poisoned the next generation's hopes for being better educated and making a better life for themselves.

    Or, in other words, GFY. No rational person should be that bitter and wound up with grievances aimed at how everyone else has screwed things up for your generation.
    The reality, of course, lies somewhere in between. You are not personally liable for the sins of your generation, same with my parents, his parents, so on. You do, however, have a pattern of painting our generation with the same brush. So, to be honest, you can go and fuck yourself and thanks for crashing the housing market. Dick.

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  5. #105
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    thanks for crashing the housing market.
    No education bubble mention? You guys are slacking.

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  6. #106
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Jesus. There are problems in the US. We've always had problems and probably always will. I agree with some of your points, but I still don't believe the sky is falling, and the whole concept of "make America great again" doesn't really resonate with me. I'd also say it's unfair to make it sound like the boomer generation just had shit gifted to them without hardship. I was born during a time when boomers were dying in Vietnam, the economy was in the shitter, fuel rationing, horrible race relations..

    I'll continue to vote for my interests and what I believe benefits the country as a whole, with optimism for the future.

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  7. #107
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    I don't think you can blame an entire generation for anything.

    Humans are too stupid to be as intelligent as they are. That's the problem.

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  8. #108
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Steve you clearly lack reading comprehension, or just glossed over the first paragraph. Your personal actions being such an awesome dude have zero bearing on any of these issues. We could go into your voting history if you like, but that's rather moot as well. Your peers in your generation are selfish assholes. You might be an awesome dude, doesn't matter....if you've voted for Bushes or Clintons, you ARE at least, part of the problem. The problem more narrowly defined, is supporting corruption amongst the major political parties. Your vote for them is acquiescing to that corruption. If you've managed to vote independent, or voted against party lines locally (or actually researched your local elections), than congratulations!! But what you do with your personal time has no bearing on whether you've contributed to the political mess we have now or not.

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  9. #109
    Senior Member AEG's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Voting for Al Gore would be a better option?!?

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  10. #110
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain, Romney and Clinton this week

    Thank you for listing my sins. You have motivated me to live long enough to vote in every election until I'm 100. I will sit back and watch how you handle the car when you get the keys. I'll be doing so in a house that is long paid off, no debt and assets to outlast me by far. None inherited, all earned and saved.

    Any sense of systemic unfairness I have and my privilege and the need to give back to help or pay it forward for the future, which have always been important to me will remain, but your panty bunched rants tempt me otherwise. Your rhetoric, which does echo the rhetoric of a too large minority of your generation will chase away the exact people that could otherwise have been helpful in progress toward some of the things that you believe need fixing.

    In the end you cause the opposite reaction than what you want and only get madder at "them" along the way.

    As someone who works directly with college students, I'm optimistic about their futures and where they can lead our country, but I'm seeing the ones who can balance the idealism they should possess with a recognition that it's hard work, getting a good job matters, building a life matters and constructing an adult reality is a good step on the path to leadership in due time.

    I also see those who grasp little of this and will undoubtedly find themselves with a mountain of debt, poor prospects and no sense that any choice they made playaed a part in their situation.

    I am having a ball in this thread, so much unexpected fun!

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  11. #111
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    No, voting for literally anyone BUT the chosen ones of the two major parties is all you can do. Reject anyone taking corporate money, would be a start.

    Ah Reagan, Bush, Romney, Clinton...Nice crop of rich white dudes that have done so many social wonders for our country and those worse off than them. It all makes sense now.

    War on drugs? Started by Reagan.
    Unjustified War costing us Trillion? Military industrial complex and loss of freedoms for citizens? Thank you Bush!

    Housing crisis? Thanks Bill for mandating we make shaky loans to poor folks knowing they can't afford them. Let alone NAFTA that killed oh so many good paying jobs.

    Bravo! Nice choices.

    You just listed everything that the current generation by and large will never have. An affordable house, lack of debt, "earned and saved" because you lived in an environment that allowed that to be attainable, one that no longer exists for more and more Americans.

    Glad you got yours tho! But I'm sure it was just all your hard work.... But thanks for proving my point entirely.

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    Last edited by scottieducati; 10-29-16 at 12:43 PM.

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  12. #112
    Back marker... jwm2k3's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Keep it about the weed, you fools.

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  13. #113
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    I brought it back on topic. These political elites have no interest in what is right re: marijuana. Too many people making money off nonviolent offenses. And we can thank Reagan for that and every president since who hasn't fought against it or at least to reclassify marijuana. It's attainable, and there is no reason whatsoever not to, except the fact it would end a gravy train in many parts of the country.

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    Last edited by scottieducati; 10-29-16 at 01:32 PM.

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  14. #114
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    News flash. If mj is legal rich white guys will make the most money from it

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  15. #115
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    I'm all for making money thru capitalism. Making money through a sham legal system is abhorrent. And we get the great benefit of crushing the black market and having taxes for things like education. This is the problem. Our elected reps on both major parties are part in parcel to this atrocity that's been going on since your boy Reagan. They are all crooks devoid of morality.

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  16. #116
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    So you believe the awarding of permits for pot stores and medical marijuana clinics, will not be rigged to put friends and cronies in this lucrative business?

    Look at liquor licenses, corrupt governments have always made a fortune off controlling who can sell the vice of choice and despite their false protests, this will be a goldmine for them and the people will be "shocked" when the tax revenues do not go where they were originally promised.

    This will be a huge money maker that will enrich the capital class even more and offer another palliative vice to keep the underclass in their place.

    If I was what you describe I would be all over this and planning for stores, followed by branding, followed by franchising, followed by an IPO to make a fortune and Wall Street, chock full of rich, white guys would be there right with me. Heck, if it catches on in more states, you can bet the Phillip Morris and RJR are already poised to jump in with their agricultural, manufacturing and supply chain infrastructure.

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

    In my parents time, 4 out of 5 doctors recommended Camel cigarettes and the use of tobacco to manage birth weights was perfectly reasonable for pregnant women.

    Thirty years after legalization of pot, who knows...

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    Last edited by SteveM; 10-29-16 at 03:52 PM.

  17. #117
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    The only relevant question I see for legalization is this: should we punish people for smoking weed or growing a plant for personal use? The answer seems pretty obvious to me. If you disagree, maybe question if we should also make alcohol and motorcycles illegal (obviously they are a lot more dangerous).

    Jail time, hefty fines & criminal records do plenty to keep the underclass in their place as it is.

    Cronyism is inevitable, but despite the overlap is a separate issue from legalization and a scapegoat argument for the anti-weed folks.

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  18. #118
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    I agree, but let's not pretend the profits from this lucrative business will go anywhere except where they always go.

    Not putting people in jail for possession of small quantities is a good idea, and in Mass I know that rarely if ever happens already.

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  19. #119
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    How about not putting people in jail at all?

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  20. #120
    Lifer SteveM's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Obviously if it is legal, it is legal.

    While it is illegal, production should be a criminal offense, distribution should be a criminal offense and possession of large quantities should be a criminal offense.

    However, just because it is a criminal offense does not mean jail is the only option for non-violent offenders. I wholeheartedly agree that too many people are in prison at too high a cost to the taxpayer. Community service programs, including academic/GED/job training programs and stronger probation supervision programs would be a far better societal use of these resources.

    This doesn't only apply to drug crimes.

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  21. #121
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    FYI it already is a huge money maker... has been for several years

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  22. #122
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    I have no doubt MA's systems of permitting are cronyism. This is a far, far cry from supporting the perversion of justice at the expense of a minority by systems literally imposed to impact blacks unequally. Stop even trying to compare, or rationalize a system that has killed and imprisoned, let alone ruined the lives, of an entire generation of (mostly) young black men. You're acquiescing to institutional racism and the perversion of justice. This is so far beyond typical corruption you will always have in regulated markets. And yes, I agree that's a problem and really bad here in MA. Nothing about this "commonwealth" is simpatico with any of my values and I cannot stand the sheer... complacency of its citizens in their elected officials' behavior. My tenure here is finite, but a necessary evil for now.

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  23. #123
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    While it is illegal, production should be a criminal offense, distribution should be a criminal offense and possession of large quantities should be a criminal offense.
    Why is that? Should it also be illegal to have too much beer in your fridge? To brew your own beer? Not being facetious, just can't follow the logic.

    Edit: Okay, I misunderstood if you're saying these should be illegal while it's still illegal... did I confuse myself?

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    Last edited by Tekime; 10-29-16 at 05:58 PM.
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  24. #124
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    So we've come full circle then. Remind us again why you voted "No," because your statements don't seem to support it.

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  25. #125
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    Re: Q4: Legalize Recreational Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    Remind us again why you voted "No," because your statements don't seem to support it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post

    B. I didn't think it through well...
    He's been pretty clear.

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