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Trump

  1. #7076
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Trump


    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    I have some bad news for you. You're living in a black pot. Remember that time our gov definitely didn't backdoor firmware, weaken encryption standards, basically wiretap the entire internet, have some role in the distribution of software designed to fuck with a uranium enrichment device, while playing puppet master to various regimes?

    I get that China might be worse, but our hands aren't exactly clean.
    I totally get that, I was actually deeply involved in that project ( I did not know why they wanted such a massive private network at the time...) . That said, the stuff China is doing that bothers me has nothing to do with spying on the public.

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  2. #7077
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    I'd love to hear of any country that "won" a trade war. As in calculated benefit of winning vs calculated cost of just continuing with status quo.

    You know, just show me a time in history at a large scale like this when the benefit was worth the pain, financially.
    From a economic point of view, this trade was is really stupid and unwinnable, but I think it's really great that it's encouraging other low wage nations to enter the high tech manufacturing realm and compete with China. China has a monopoly on high tech manufacturing infrastructure and we should be second sourcing all the high tech stuff that they make and we can't live without.

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  3. #7078
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    So you think that this trade war business is being effective?
    I am curious how you see threatening tariffs and then back-pedaling effecting industrial espionage or IP theft.

    Also curious where you were on the TPP. That had some pretty good IP protections, didn't it? One thing this administration has managed to follow through on was renege on the TPP.
    It's probably not as effective as I am hoping it will be, but it's better than doing nothing, even if it's totally by accident. That said, I am also confident that the stable genius will screw it up and combine the suffering he caused with a terrible deal that somehow strengthens China and weakens us.

    I don't know enough about TPP to offer any meaningful opinion. Truth is I don't know a whole lot about trading with China in general, but I have worked with joint ventures on leading edge technology an awful lot and have witnessed some incredibly sketchy stuff that made me wish we had a better trading/business partners. The willingness to give away trade secrets for short term cost savings in this country is disturbing.

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    Last edited by stoinkythepig; 09-19-19 at 01:19 PM.

  4. #7079
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by stoinkythepig View Post
    I don't give a shit about the trade deficit with any country, I just want to send less money to China in particular. I don't want to help their economy or give them technology since they are acting like an enemy. Like I said, I don't think Trump understands why this trade war is (IMO) good, I am just glad he's doing it fro my own reasons. I could be way off on China's intentions, but I don't think I am. We should not be helping to make China stronger right now.
    Economic isolation does absolutely nothing to prevent misbehavior by states. Look at North Korea for proof...

    Among the best ways for ensure states behave with one another is to make them economically interdependent. (This is why the EU works.)

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  5. #7080
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    Re: Trump

    Don't worry about China's world domination by military spending, we still spend over 2.5 times more than them...

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  6. #7081
    Lifer
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by stoinkythepig View Post
    That said, the stuff China is doing that bothers me has nothing to do with spying on the public.
    Right, but our government's actions have also harmed our global reputation by meddling with commercial products. External buyers are now justifiably concerned about buying US commercial IT equipment, or using US-based IT services. You don't like what China's doing with not valuing our intellectual property, but our government doesn't have a lot of respect for our own.

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  7. #7082
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    Re: Trump

    I am someone who personally was involved with China using monopolistic actions to force USA companies ( and me)
    out of business. A year later prices were back where the USA companies would have still survived

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  8. #7083
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    Re: Trump

    I saw posted numerous places yesterday that we’ve spent more on farm bailouts from the trade war than we did on the auto industry bailout in 09.
    This leaves out how much we would’ve spent on farmers’ welfare anyways, but regardless, I don’t expect the farmers to pay it back like the car mfgs did.

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  9. #7084
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Just buying votes in the red states. Nothing to see here. Welfare state. Handouts.

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  10. #7085
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Just buying votes in the red states. Nothing to see here. Welfare state. Handouts.
    Yep. Both parties do it, on a massive scale, which has a lot to do with our unsustainable debt as well. That's a big part of why we really need to develop some independent parties, give ourselves some decent alternatives.

    Now we're most likely looking, for the next election, at Trump/Biden, Trump/Warren, or Trump-Pence/Biden-Warren. How crappy do our "choices" have to keep being, for how long, before people start to Wake TF Up?

    PhilB

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  11. #7086
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    How crappy do our "choices" have to keep being, for how long, before people start to Wake TF Up?

    PhilB
    Have you looked in the comment section of literally *any* public Facebook post? This is a tribal country, people don't need help from Big R & D to go hard left or right, they want to go there, its safe and warm and you have lots of people to reaffirm your idiocy.

    It could be a post about cookies, one person say they don't like chocolate chips and end up getting called a libtard for it.

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    Last edited by loudbeard; 09-24-19 at 11:38 AM.
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  12. #7087
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    Have you looked in the comment section of literally *any* public Facebook post? This is a tribal country, people don't need help from Big R & D to go hard left or right, they want to go there, its safe and warm and you have lots of people to reaffirm your idiocy.
    Just be glad you're not on North East Shooters...

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  13. #7088
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    Just be glad you're not on North East Shooters...
    Hah. I'd probably get vertigo if I went into that echo chamber...

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    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  14. #7089
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    Re: Trump

    I love seeing alternate echo chambers to compare and contrast. Case in point, NESR vs WERA. Similar clientele (former and current racers) but hoooo boy are they polar opposites politically.

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  15. #7090
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    I love seeing alternate echo chambers to compare and contrast. Case in point, NESR vs WERA. Similar clientele (former and current racers) but hoooo boy are they polar opposites politically.
    Oh yeah? I feel like it’s a pretty decent 50-50 split here. Am I missing something?

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  16. #7091
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Oh yeah? I feel like it’s a pretty decent 50-50 split here. Am I missing something?
    I'd put both forums at about 80/20 in one direction or the other. There are strong individual voices bucking the trends in each, but it feels to me like there are strong leans overall numerically.

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  17. #7092
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    are you talking about people that support the current occupant of the whitehouse, or people that actually lean toward one side or the other?

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  18. #7093
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    are you talking about people that support the current occupant of the whitehouse, or people that actually lean toward one side or the other?
    At the moment it tends to be support for / against Trump where most of the political discussion goes to eventually these days. I also see it reflected on FB.

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  19. #7094
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    At the moment it tends to be support for / against Trump where most of the political discussion goes to eventually these days. I also see it reflected on FB.
    You made two different points then, or you’re intentionally trying to confuse me, which is working.
    Being on opposite sides of the political spectrum has fuck all to do with supporting the president or not, in this specific case.
    You can be a conservative and vehemently oppose trump. All it takes is a literal crumb of integrity.
    Again, am I missing something?

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  20. #7095
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    Re: Trump

    No Chip. Conservatives now are all about massive gubmint spending, exploding national debt, and zero accountability/transparency from their elected officials.

    Don't you understand? They just change everything they believe in for whichever of their sports team is most likely going to win. Cause it's not about the country, it's about winning.

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  21. #7096
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    You made two different points then, or you’re intentionally trying to confuse me, which is working.
    Being on opposite sides of the political spectrum has fuck all to do with supporting the president or not, in this specific case.
    You can be a conservative and vehemently oppose trump. All it takes is a literal crumb of integrity.
    Again, am I missing something?
    Nope, you're not missing anything, which is why I clarified specifying that at the moment, discussions on both forums that may start on one topic and goes political tends to devolve down to trump, and at this time WERA and NESR are polar opposites on that topic. In the past, when we didn't have Trump as the largest mass in the room to pull all discussions in to, NESR to me has leaned liberal with a small number of loud libertarians and conservatives. The WERA forum leaned hard conservative with again, a small number of loud libertarians and liberals. The dichotomy is much more apparent at the moment, but I attribute a lot of that to the political volume in general all around us going up. I could try and guess party affiliations but for the most part I ignore them, and both seem to be fluid at times with what they're for or against so I just skip that detail as a waste of time.

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  22. #7097
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    I feel like there’s a decimal off in your analysis. I use that analogy because you treat everything like a math equation.

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  23. #7098
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    I feel like there’s a decimal off in your analysis. I use that analogy because you treat everything like a math equation.
    Heh, fair, and it is just my assessment, which will be different from someone else's, I'm not trying to paint it as the one true view.

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  24. #7099
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    You made two different points then, or you’re intentionally trying to confuse me, which is working.
    Being on opposite sides of the political spectrum has fuck all to do with supporting the president or not, in this specific case.
    You can be a conservative and vehemently oppose trump. All it takes is a literal crumb of integrity.
    Again, am I missing something?
    I have met many, many conservative people. I can count the number of anti-Trump conservatives on one hand and still have fingers to spare.

    I think conservatives would rather an atrociously bad Republican president than a competent Democrat. I would like to think (but have no way of knowing) that liberals would rather a competent Republican than an atrocious Democrat.

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  25. #7100
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    No Chip. Conservatives now are all about massive gubmint spending, exploding national debt, and zero accountability/transparency from their elected officials.

    Don't you understand? They just change everything they believe in for whichever of their sports team is most likely going to win. Cause it's not about the country, it's about winning.
    Replace conservatives with politicians and I think you hit the nail on the head.

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