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Trump

  1. #7226
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: Trump


    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    I think we would all be surprised about how many "moderates" voted for and want to keep Trump in office but are just not vocal about it. Its just not a popular public opinion to support him. However, he created a huge amount of short term gain for so many people by lowering personal taxes (more dollars from your income) and lowering corporate taxes (stock market boom). I'm sure there are plenty of people that openly trash him but secretly vote for him.

    I like to think that everyone in my office hates the guy, but I still watch my words cause I know there are some heavy hitters here that keep massive dollars in their pockets the longer he is in office.
    Who's personal income taxes went down? As a middle class home owner, mine went up quite a bit.
    I think a lot of people got fooled into thinking their tax went down because they got more in their paychecks, when that increase is simply an advance on your tax return. Same tactic with the Bush economic stimulus package when people believed the government was sending out checks for $600 to anyone that paid taxes...nothing more than a republican feel good trick

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  2. #7227
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Your taxes didn’t go down because you have a large local and state tax. Parts of America don’t. People there saw a tax cut.

    Most blue state tax payers got nailed losing the salt tax deduction. It was part of the plan.

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  3. #7228
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Who's personal income taxes went down? As a middle class home owner, mine went up quite a bit.
    My taxable income went up while my total tax bill went down. The business income pass through should have made a difference to a lot of folks as well.

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  4. #7229
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    How’s that deficit doing?

    Good businessman my ass.

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  5. #7230
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    How’s that deficit doing?

    Good businessman my ass.
    Oh, you didn't get the memo. Deficits only matter to Republicans when Democrats are in charge.

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  6. #7231
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Your taxes didnít go down because you have a large local and state tax. Parts of America donít. People there saw a tax cut.

    Most blue state tax payers got nailed losing the salt tax deduction. It was part of the plan.
    I should have been more specific.
    I paid more in federal taxes in 2018 than I did in 2017, while my income didnít change.

    I paid more in town taxes in 2018, than I did in 2017. I live in one of the few republicans controlled towns in RI.

    I paid less in state taxes in 2018, than I did in 2017, in a Democrat controlled state.

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  7. #7232
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    Re: Trump

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t higher property taxes keep more tax revenue at the state level as opposed to going to federal, since salt taxes are deducted from fed (more so before chump).

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  8. #7233
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    I suppose that is true, yes. Whatzyerpoint?

    Net effect to most tax payers (ie myself) is that state & local taxes remained the same, but I could deduct less of it. Meaning my total fed tax bill was higher. YMMV, as always.


    This is one place where I typically identify with the Libertarians. US tax policy has largely been take from the individuals and redistribute nationally. Your state may take from individuals and redistribute state-wide as well. Then your town probably takes from individual property owners and redistributes town-wide as well. Libertarians have made the argument that national taxes are wrong and a violation of states rights. States should be responsible for raising revenue to provide services state-wide and the Fed should stay out of it. Instead the Fed takes and redistributes as it sees fit. A process that I think many of us would agree is subject to a lot of corruption. National politics mean state X gets more Fed $ because their reps out maneuvered the reps from state Y, even though state Y pays more into the system. I think Dems might argue that state X is more needs the $ and state Y can afford it, therefore the arrangement is just.

    I would argue that Trump limiting SALT deductions pulls MORE money into the Fed system for "redistribution". A very central, communal way of doing things. This seems contrary to the Republican/tea-party/Libertarian point of view on this.

    Another example where Trump is a lousy Republican.


    The truth is this move was political. Blue states, as a rule, have higher state and local taxes. The GOP stuck it to them with this SALT deduction move. This move wasn't based in some value or principal, but rather in just beating the Dems. Just like everything else Trump does in every facet of his administration.

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  9. #7234
    Member jimmycapp's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I would argue that Trump limiting SALT deductions pulls MORE money into the Fed system for "redistribution". A very central, communal way of doing things. This seems contrary to the Republican/tea-party/Libertarian point of view on this.
    That's what I was getting at. It seems inverse to republican states rights "values". I thought about it a few months ago, and wasn't 100% sure I was correct. Seems like everyone points at the NE and bitches about our taxes, yet we keep more in the state, while red state take more from the national number. Not that I love paying taxes or anything.

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  10. #7235

    Re: Trump

    This aged well

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    "I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify, but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court, where Republican’s rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public...."

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  11. #7236

    Re: Trump

    I'm dying



    It's very real. Onion is going out of business.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Trump-gettyimages-1188927586-2048x2048-jpg  

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  12. #7237
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    Re: Trump

    Nothing like the punch in the gut when my turbo tax tells me Iíve reached the SALT limit and I had so much more to enter.

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  13. #7238
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by backinthesaddle View Post
    Nothing like the punch in the gut when my turbo tax tells me I’ve reached the SALT limit and I had so much more to enter.
    That's a signal that it's past time to rein in your state.

    PhilB

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  14. #7239
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    Re: Trump

    We recently binged a few episodes of Jon Oliver. He normally does about 5 minutes on Trump/current events before jumping into the routine for the show.

    We've all kinda been numb to the stupidity lately, but holy crap, have you seen the episode with Roger Stone. Whit and I just looked at each other after succumbing to the fact this is the world we live in.

    This is just the clip on Stone, but if you can find the first few minutes it is equally as ridiculous.


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  15. #7240
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    The one bright side of Trump being President is the non-stop material for the comedy shows.

    I don't understand how this fool is still in office. I just don't get it anymore.

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  16. #7241
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    The one bright side of Trump being President is the non-stop material for the comedy shows.

    I don't understand how this fool is still in office. I just don't get it anymore.
    Unfortunately, Trump is the culmination of the general public today. Self-centered, relies heavily on social media, can do no wrong, the laws don't apply to me, etc etc. It's not only Trump that is this way, look at ALL the politicians. Doing whatever they can to get their way, essentially childish behavior. Say what you want about the media, but if they brought light to ALL of the news worthy blunders of the .gov, and we all looked at it with an open mind, we'd all be completely astonished at what we've allowed the government to become.

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  17. #7242
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Well we can't have a discussion about modern politics without a heavy dose of virtue signaling.

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  18. #7243
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Any Trump apologist always does the "yeah but EVERYONE is bad" false logic.

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  19. #7244
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    Well we can't have a discussion about modern politics without a heavy dose of virtue signaling.
    I fucking hate that expression. What is the point of having virtues if you're not willing to stand up for them?

    Yeah, I get that some virtues are stupid and counter-productive (e.g. NIMBYism), but at least it's an ethos

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  20. #7245
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Any Trump apologist always does the "yeah but EVERYONE is bad" false logic.
    It's not false logic, and it isn't always about being an apologist for Trump. It's a *very real* problem that the awfulness across the boards is astounding.

    I would LOVE to get rid of Trump. I didn't vote for him before, and I never would. I've been *begging* for the Democrats to give me someone I can vote for in good conscience to help get rid of Trump. And it's a real problem that y'all can't or won't do it. Hillary was terrible; I voted for Johnson. Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Booker are terrible -- any of those and I'll vote third party again (along with a lot of other people I know). Gabbard I'd vote for. Castro or Buttigieg maybe. You have to do your part and put forward someone decent.

    PhilB

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  21. #7246
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    I fucking hate that expression. What is the point of having virtues if you're not willing to stand up for them?

    Yeah, I get that some virtues are stupid and counter-productive (e.g. NIMBYism), but at least it's an ethos
    The expression has a real meaning. "Virtue signaling" isn't about *being* virtuous; it's about *looking* virtuous. That's the problem with it. There's nothing wrong with actually being virtuous. There's nothing wrong with being conspicuously virtuous, if you're actually doing something. What's wrong, and what "virtue signaling" means, is when you're *not* being virtuous in any effective way, and are *instead* putting your efforts into raising your own status by *appearing* viirtuous.

    A simple example is "preaching to the converted". A person who wants to change things will try to talk to people who don't already agree, and try to change their minds -- to make a case and move opinion, whether those who agree with him already are watching or not. A "virtue signaler" will conspicuously speak out when surrounded by fellow believers, which makes him look virtuous, but does no actual good.

    PhilB

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    Last edited by PhilB; 11-21-19 at 12:00 PM.
    "A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper." -- Ludwig von Mises
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  22. #7247
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    I fucking hate that expression. What is the point of having virtues if you're not willing to stand up for them?
    That wasn't my point. I know it's a very vogue thing to say right now but things like...

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    Unfortunately, Trump is the culmination of the general public today. Self-centered, relies heavily on social media, can do no wrong, the laws don't apply to me, etc etc.
    ...get on my nerves. Really all that is saying is *I'M* not like this. Great point, Bob. These yutes these days are really worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    The expression has a real meaning. "Virtue signaling" isn't about *being* virtuous; it's about *looking* virtuous. That's the problem with it. There's nothing wrong with actually being virtuous. There's nothing wrong with being conspicuously virtuous, if you're actually doing something. What's wrong, and what "virtue signaling" means, is when you're *not* being virtuous in any effective way, and are *instead* putting your efforts into raising your own status by *appearing* viirtuous.

    A simple example is "preaching to the converted". A person who wants to change things will try to talk to people who don't already agree, and try to change their minds -- to make a case and move opinion, whether those who agree with him already are watching or not. A "virtue signaler" will conspicuously speak out when surrounded by fellow believers, which makes him look virtuous, but does no actual good.

    PhilB
    Phil got it, as usual.

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  23. #7248
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    There’s a certain arrogance that goes along with preaching no matter who is doing it.
    I don’t like it.

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  24. #7249
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    It's not false logic, and it isn't always about being an apologist for Trump. It's a *very real* problem that the awfulness across the boards is astounding.

    I would LOVE to get rid of Trump. I didn't vote for him before, and I never would. I've been *begging* for the Democrats to give me someone I can vote for in good conscience to help get rid of Trump. And it's a real problem that y'all can't or won't do it. Hillary was terrible; I voted for Johnson. Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Booker are terrible -- any of those and I'll vote third party again (along with a lot of other people I know). Gabbard I'd vote for. Castro or Buttigieg maybe. You have to do your part and put forward someone decent.

    PhilB
    Johnson was terrible. ALL libertarian candidates ever have been terrible.

    See how easy that is?


    My point is that it is used as a cop-out. A get out of the argument free card. It also paints the issue of any candidate/politician as completely binary, with no scale of being "good" or "bad". It's the same false logic as the FAKE NEWS idiots.

    The issue is that people want to appear informed/smart. Without the in depth knowledge or willingness to say "I don't know", they have to oversimplify and black/white a largely complex topic. They feel this gets them out of having to justify their statement/position and leaves it to everyone else to bring evidence. It's bullshit and everyone knows it.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 11-21-19 at 12:22 PM.
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  25. #7250
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    You have to do your part and put forward someone decent.
    Your capacity for double standard is astounding.

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