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Trump

  1. #7301

    Re: Trump


    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    This one I'm kind of curious about. One of the impeachment counts is "obstruction of congress". So Trump is telling everyone to refuse to testify, and is using his lawyers to work the courts and delay stuff as long as possible.

    I'm wondering if this is actually an impeachable offense -- Trump is pretty blatantly working the system here, but isn't that his right? Seems that really it's a problem with the system rather than Trump.
    You can't just tell/order somebody to refuse to testify to Congress. Especially as the "most powerful man" on the planet and "boss" of the staff. It's essentially witness intimidation hence obstruction.

    This isn't a lawyer representing somebody in front of Cogress subpoena or the subpoenad person coming in to claim the 5th or the like.

    This is you wanting to report on a crime happening at your work place and your boss sending a company wide email saying "do not go court, do not say anything about what's happening at work".

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  2. #7302
    Posting Freak joeswamp's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Maybe I just don't get it then. My understanding is that Trump is somehow using the courts to prevent these guys appearing before Congress. In some extreme cases, this could be valid -- like if Congress wants to subpoena a CIA agent to publicly reveal a bunch of top secret stuff. In this case, the president could rightfully prevent the witness from testifying and then file a court case, the courts would eventually decide whether or not the subpoena is legal.

    Now in this case, my understanding is that Trump is doing just that but the arguments are ridiculous, and it's going to take forever for the courts to churn through them all. In a perfect world, these cases would last about one second in the courts and then the witness would go before congress. But in this case congress seems to be essentially short-circuiting the courts with this impeachment count.

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  3. #7303

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    Maybe I just don't get it then. My understanding is that Trump is somehow using the courts to prevent these guys appearing before Congress. In some extreme cases, this could be valid -- like if Congress wants to subpoena a CIA agent to publicly reveal a bunch of top secret stuff. In this case, the president could rightfully prevent the witness from testifying and then file a court case, the courts would eventually decide whether or not the subpoena is legal.

    Now in this case, my understanding is that Trump is doing just that but the arguments are ridiculous, and it's going to take forever for the courts to churn through them all. In a perfect world, these cases would last about one second in the courts and then the witness would go before congress. But in this case congress seems to be essentially short-circuiting the courts with this impeachment count.
    Congressional subpoenas aren't the same as judicial subpoenas. Keep in mind it's one of the 3 branches of government that have relatively equal powers for checks and balances.

    Subpoenas
    Congressional rules empower all its standing committees with the authority to compel witnesses to produce testimony and documents for subjects under its jurisdiction. Committee rules may provide for the full committee to issue a subpoena, or permit subcommittees or the chairman (acting alone or with the ranking member) to issue subpoenas.

    As announced in Wilkinson v. United States,[8] a Congressional committee must meet three requirements for its subpoenas to be "legally sufficient." First, the committee's investigation of the broad subject area must be authorized by its chamber; second, the investigation must pursue "a valid legislative purpose" but does not need to involve legislation and does not need to specify the ultimate intent of Congress; and third, the specific inquiries must be pertinent to the subject matter area that has been authorized for investigation.

    The Court held in Eastland v. United States Servicemen's Fund[9] that Congressional subpoenas are within the scope of the Speech and Debate clause which provides "an absolute bar to judicial interference" once it is determined that Members are acting within the "legitimate legislative sphere" with such compulsory process. Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena. For example, attorney-client privilege and information that is normally protected under the Trade Secrets Act do not need to be recognized.

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  4. #7304

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    18 U.S. Code § 872: “Extortion by officers or employees of the United States.”

    2 U.S. Code § 192, “Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers,”

    18 U.S. Code § 610 “Coercion of political activity.”

    52 U.S. Code § 30121, “Contributions and donations by foreign nationals.” - Besides anything else, look up how many Hotel floors are booked by the Saudis's in Washington in Trump buildings

    Without looking up statutes lets continue

    plus conspiracy

    besides all that dont forget fraud with Trump university

    using the private unsecured phone (lock her up! oh wait, him up now?)

    profiting from presidency

    advocating political violence

    campaign finance contribution violations



    Those are obvious and on record

    Non obvious

    Killing Epstein

    Having his personal lawyer as dealing in international affairs?



    Besides all that, impeachment doesn't have anything to do with legality in the end. It's the power of the House to essentially suggest firing the president for being incompetent for any reason
    Don'f forget having more desert than his guests from Time Ragazine.

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  5. #7305

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    Don'f forget having more desert than his guests from Time Ragazine.
    Here is one thing you dont get while youre gobbling Trump balls deep.

    We aren't the same.

    We see Obama did some fucked up things during his presidency and he wasn't perfect. We say fuck Obama.

    Guess what? Fuck Hillary too. Fuck AOC and Clinton.

    You can't bring yourself to say fuck Trump over obvious retarded shit he said and did, even if you agree on 99% of things he does. You KNOW he did moronic or acted against his promises. Literally contradicting himself in text on Twitter.

    YOU

    JUST

    CANT

    SAY

    IT

    Which is exactly why we keep busting your balls, putting you on ignore or laugh at you.

    Enjoy your orange Messiah. I hear his fruit punch is delicious. You scared little creature. The man can rape your family and you still will whimper Trump 2020

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    Last edited by Vovchandr; 12-22-19 at 02:09 AM.

  6. #7306

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    Here is one thing you dont get while youre gobbling Trump balls deep.

    We aren't the same.

    We see Obama did some fucked up things during his presidency and he wasn't perfect. We say fuck Obama.

    Guess what? Fuck Hillary too. Fuck AOC and Clinton.

    You can't bring yourself to say fuck Trump over obvious retarded shit he said and did, even if you agree on 99% of things he does. You KNOW he did moronic or acted against his promises. Literally contradicting himself in text on Twitter.

    YOU

    JUST

    CANT

    SAY

    IT

    Which is exactly why we keep busting your balls, putting you on ignore or laugh at you.

    Enjoy your orange Messiah. I hear his fruit punch is delicious. You scared little creature. The man can rape your family and you still will whimper Trump 2020
    Funny...I agree fuck all those people. And especially that fake Indian and fuck all them politically correct harvard above us assholes.. And that is why I like Trump. Cause he triggers them. And you too. I hope he triggered a avalanche this morning with a tweet. Or told someone to go to hell. Or laughed at Nervous Nancy's drunken slurs.

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  7. #7307

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    Funny...I agree fuck all those people. And especially that fake Indian and fuck all them politically correct harvard above us assholes.. And that is why I like Trump. Cause he triggers them. And you too. I hope he triggered a avalanche this morning with a tweet. Or told someone to go to hell. Or laughed at Nervous Nancy's drunken slurs.
    Again, you simply do not understand. (What else is new?)

    Your disability does not trigger me. No more than people who believe in religion, astrology, flat earthers or anti vaccers. You guys simply exist and waste resources.

    You do not get the entitlement to claim what triggers me no more than I get to assume than Bernie Sanders pube hairs trigger you because they all work together for a common mission.

    On that note and bringing this all back around.

    By your own logic (yes you do have one, but I know it’s hard to track it through your Hippocracy) a person attacking another and typing in caps is triggered?

    Man you must bitch and moan about snow flake in chief being triggered 100 times a day as he tweets endlessly. You surely love to pick on his triggered bitch ass and say “fuck Trump”

    Oh, that’s right. You still can’t.

    You know, disabilities and all.

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  8. #7308
    Lifer
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    Re: Trump

    He basically just said this isn't really about the politics. It's about getting a reaction from people, or at least thinking he did. It's insecurity and immaturity. He does it for the internet points.

    You can write out a well-articulated point of view, but he's demonstrated repeatedly that he's incapable of responding with the same level of effort or analysis.

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  9. #7309

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    He basically just said this isn't really about the politics. It's about getting a reaction from people, or at least thinking he did. It's insecurity and immaturity. He does it for the internet points.

    You can write out a well-articulated point of view, but he's demonstrated repeatedly that he's incapable of responding with the same level of effort or analysis.
    Hmmmmmm......go back and look at any and all of the debates I have been in here. You will find that 100% percent of them ended with name calling from the non-winning side. So basically I spend my time at a place called the dungeon mostly just reading along and I find them mostly to be like me. Yes. I do come here and the reaction of anything this conservative says borders on ........


    and I have a giggle from ur reactions.

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    Last edited by Rambunctous; 12-23-19 at 11:26 PM.
    May the road rise to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, May the sun shine warm upon your face.

  10. #7310

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    Hmmmmmm......go back and look at any and all of the debates I have been in here. You will find that 100% percent of them ended with name calling from the non-winning side.
    I did. Fake news.

    Unless you consider yourself part of the losing side now? Losing the House, making history by being impeached, laughing stock of the world, sky rocketing deficit, trying to take away guns without due process, bitching on twitter, lack of wall 3 years later.

    Not sure anymore. You're either full of shit in your statement or you're right due to being a loser. Which one you pick?

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    Last edited by Vovchandr; 12-24-19 at 01:14 AM.

  11. #7311
    Lifer gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    I did. Fake news.

    Unless you consider yourself part of the losing side now? Losing the House, making history by being impeached, laughing stock of the world, sky rocketing deficit, trying to take away guns without due process, bitching on twitter.

    Not sure anymore. You're either full of shit in your statement or you're right due to being a loser. Which one you pick?
    Ring a bell and I’ll salivate.

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  12. #7312
    Senior Member jimmycapp's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Great. Another republican war in the Middle East. They haven’t even finished the last two, nor paid for them. If we took some of the trillions of dollars we’ve spent and continue to spend over there, we could heavily reduce our fossil fuel needs and get the fuck out of there.

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  13. #7313
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmycapp View Post
    Great. Another republican war in the Middle East. They haven’t even finished the last two, nor paid for them. If we took some of the trillions of dollars we’ve spent and continue to spend over there, we could heavily reduce our fossil fuel needs and get the fuck out of there.
    Agreed. But do bear in mind that this is very much *not* an exclusively Republican problem.

    PhilB

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  14. #7314
    Senior Member jimmycapp's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    Agreed. But do bear in mind that this is very much *not* an exclusively Republican problem.

    PhilB
    Understood. My opinion comes from the past two decades, since I was able to vote.

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  15. #7315
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmycapp View Post
    Understood. My opinion comes from the past two decades, since I was able to vote.
    Problem is, Obama doubled down on the wars in the middle east, and made targeted assassinations just like this one public and acceptable. And he campaigned on pulling out of the middle east. I felt betrayed when he became such a war hawk. I find it puzzling that repubs recall him as weak on this, and dems recall him as measured. The reality is that since 9/11 both sides have been engaged fully in an undeclared war on whoever they choose in the middle east. War Powers of congress have been largely sidestepped on both sides. It sucks all around.

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  16. #7316
    Senior Member jimmycapp's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    I agree with you. Though initiating the invasion and occupation with no exit plan is worse than failing to clean up said mess.

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  17. #7317
    Posting Freak MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Its time to stop this shit and come home.! 20 years and getting worse we are not winning this battle. How many lives lost and money spent!!
    The currant President promised to get us out of the middle east!
    He made it worse! instead and For his own pollical gain!
    He Lied like he always lies! Time to bring it home and make America great again!!!!!

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    Last edited by MUZ720; 01-08-20 at 10:24 AM.

  18. #7318
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    But my 457 is doing so well.

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  19. #7319

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZ720 View Post
    For his own pollical gain!
    Interesting take from you. I figured it exactly different. Economy booming. Poll numbers climbing with every hoax. (believe it or not not everyone in the USA thinks like NESR and the fake indian) I think the only way he could lose this election is with a war. Dems and fake news have already started being mouthpieces for Iran and calling him a war mongering criminal.

    Could you explain why you think it is for his own political gain?

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  20. #7320
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Because supporters like yourself cheer when he threatens to commit war crimes on Twitter.

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  21. #7321

  22. #7322

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Because supporters like yourself cheer when he threatens to commit war crimes on Twitter.
    You are partly correct. I do support him and the USA. I also cheer when any president protects it's people and assets from attacks from evil terrorists like Salami. I do not consider that a war crime. I consider it part of the presidents responsibility.

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  23. #7323
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Then how come 43 and 44, and both their seasoned intel and defense teams agreed that sniping him wasn’t worth the risk, both as an international incident, and against the progress they were working towards to keep Iran out the nuke game?
    Why was last week different?

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  24. #7324

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  25. #7325
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Ok. They threw rocks so we’ll snipe the 2nd most powerful person in the neighboring country.

    That’s great strategery

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