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Trump

  1. #176
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Trump


    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    That's only cause we suck at healthcare! a for profit model does not promote high life expectancy. Cuba and many other countries hav had a better life expectancy than us for many of those years with almost no technology. You guys have been brainwashed by big pharma and biomedical industries. It's actually not rocket science to keep people alive.
    You're flat out wrong on every count here. We excel at healthcare. The very best quality of healthcare in the world is in this country, and people who can afford it come here from all over the world (including the socialized medicine countries you are praising, where they could get their local healthcare for "free") when they are seriously sick. About 75% of the world's medical development and advancement is done in or for the American market, BECAUSE we are the only remaining wealthy country that has a market at all. (Which also has a lot to do with the high cost here.) There are some medicines that are available in Europe and not here, but that has nothing to do with socialized medicine, and everything to do with how much the FDA sucks at approving things (government again; surprise!).

    Other countries do well at the common stuff we already know how to treat well, but suck at a lot of things. Like serious cancers and other major conditions. Like timely treatment -- waiting lists until you die before treatment are a serious problem in socialized systems (including U.S. socialized systems like the VA).

    Socializing our system would be a huge mistake in a dozen ways. One of the biggest, and one which almost never gets mentioned in these discussions, is the disastrous effect that doing so would have on medical advancement. There are still a great many major diseases that we do not currently have even decent treatments for, let alone cures. Most cancers, ALS, Alzheimers, prion diseases, most mental/emotional conditions, Parkinsons, on and on -- we need to not screw up the ability to pay for development and approval of treatments and/or cures for all of these, even if that is expensive for us.

    PhilB

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  2. #177
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    And it's mostly the eating part. real food, locally grown, brought to market so as to not need preservatives, and not smacked with sugar. Also, it's important to work less.
    Here, you are right. Healthy living and prevention are key to long lives in reasonable health. The U.S. lags in life expectancy largely due to poor lifestyle choices; it isn't the fault of our healthcare system, no matter how much the ideologically inclined want to misplace the blame to further their goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I don't claim to have any answers, but if you add up all the insurance that you paid in your lifetime, I'm pretty sure you are a losing. In fact, I bet you are losing so much that it has prevented you from living a better life.
    Of course. That's the way insurance works; the way it should work. About 94% of people will, over their lives, lose money on health insurance, and they are the lucky ones. The 6% that "make" money on that don't enjoy the process. You are (or were, before ObamaCare) free to take that gamble for yourself, have a better life, and hope you are in that 94%.

    PhilB

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  3. #178
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Not wrong about life expectancy. The rest is a matter of opinion. I don't belive that curing disease is paramount. We are mortals and will die of something. Both my parents died in our amazing healthcare system under the care of the best. In my opinion the system dehumanized them both before they died. It ain't all that.

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  4. #179
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Our focus on high tech cures while we ignore providing simple preventative health including nutrition education etc. is exactly why I think our system lags behind even some of the most socialist. It's not politics I care about here. Cuba was an extreme example, but I have been there and seen it with my own eyes. And guess who was on the plane with me? MEDICAL PATIENTS heading to cuba for treatment. lol.

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  5. #180
    Lifer PhilB's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    In many cases? Having their economies fall apart FAR worse than ours...
    THIS! Britain has started to figure out that their NHS is unsustainable, and is making changes to avoid complete collapse. Most of the others haven't figured it out yet, or if they have, they haven't figured out how to implement reforms without provoking riots from the people who have become dependent and used to "free" stuff.

    PhilB

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  6. #181
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    Re: Trump

    This thread is depressing

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  7. #182
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Sorry, back to the topic. Trump is a MORON!!

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  8. #183
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    The way I view it, if Trump is elected, we may get that revolution going that is overdue. So we got that going for us...

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  9. #184
    Lifer
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Falko View Post
    The way I view it, if Trump is elected, we may get that revolution going that is overdue. So we got that going for us...
    Are you sure it'll be a revolution, and not a civil war?

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  10. #185
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Sorry, back to the topic. Trump is a MORON!!
    Make that a highly successful Billionaire Moron. Who employs thousands upon thousands of people. Moron he is not. Highly controversial yes.

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    Last edited by Rosco61; 12-30-15 at 04:03 PM.

  11. #186
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Are you sure it'll be a revolution, and not a civil war?
    Might be revolutionary, but probably just another keyboard war

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  12. #187
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Usually depends on who wins to be called a civil war or revolutionary war.

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  13. #188
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    Re: Trump

    To a democrat anyone with a job is taxable upper class

    I was with the same Oxford for the preceding 20 years and after diagnosis 1 year $6k>>>next year $12>>>third year $20 K
    So you understand about wooopiee pre existing coverage

    Oh and health insurance is not like any other insurance. Except for the good sports that get killed everyone else will probably make a REAL claim

    In USA everyone gets treated at the ER.... What it is is asset protection

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  14. #189

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    He's going to win healthcare with a plan he will explain in detail once elected.

    Should we just call him Mr.Pelosi?
    Quoting Iglu from his own posting on this one "and uneducated intentionally misleading statements presented as facts aside" cause I couldn't say it better myself.

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  15. #190

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Sorry, back to the topic. Trump is a MORON!!



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  16. #191
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosco61 View Post
    Make that a highly successful Billionaire Moron. Who employs thousands upon thousands of people. Moron he is not. Highly controversial yes.
    A fortune that he was handed and has somehow miraculously done a pretty awesome job of not quite completely screwing it up, despite all his best efforts.

    When it comes to all things political and financial, Trump is a real life racist Mr. Magoo.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 12-30-15 at 06:05 PM.
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  17. #192
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    A fortune that he was handed and has somehow miraculously done a pretty awesome job of not quite completely screwing it up, despite all his best efforts.
    Forbes estimated he was worth $4B in 2015. He was born in to a wealthy real estate family, and given his starting point/money. He inherited $75M on the high side in 1999. Let's say 8% yearly return on investments, that'd be $250M in 2015. Just real rough numbers, since he is using that money in business deals too, not stock, but it's a fraction of his net worth today.

    I don't see how you get to $4B over 50 years, while living a wealthy lifestyle, without doing something right. I don't know if he's a businessman in the classic sense - maybe he's closer to a business savvy gambler and celebrity. But he is apparently good at making money. I question if any of that will transfer over to politics though.

    Just for fun: Assume he was given $5M cash 50 years ago - what would it take for him to have his networth, assuming he never inherited anything in 1999 (~3.75B). It's about 14% yearly return, not counting any taxes, or a dime of living expenses. Considering he lost money some years, and spent millions on lifestyle costs, his yearly ROI average is pretty high.

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  18. #193
    Lifer Rosco61's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Who employs thousands upon thousands of people. I'd like to see one politician or anyone else that employs as many different people from different cultures as him. I agree he's a loose cannon and a buffoon but he's a smart one.
    And I keep hearing he's a racist but I have not heard anything he said so far that would make him so. The media and certain individual like to pick certain segments of his speeches and leave out the ones that don't fit their agenda.
    Like you know they do all the time.

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  19. #194

    Re: Trump

    If you are not a democrat you are a racist. Cause they said so. And a sexist too. And you want to kill old people and starve poor black children. And poison the earth. Did I miss anything?

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  20. #195
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Maybe i was the only one who heard it when he called Mexicans rapists and Syrians terrorists.

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  21. #196
    Lifer Rosco61's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Maybe i was the only one who heard it when he called Mexicans rapists and Syrians terrorists.
    He said some Mexicans and some Syrians were problems. You need to listen to the whole thing not the cherry picked sound bytes.

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  22. #197
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Why? Everthing else he says is fluff. He doesnt state positions with detail.

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  23. #198
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Why? Everthing else he says is fluff. He doesnt state positions with detail.
    what do you need the details for? dems pass health care without even reading what they are voting for

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  24. #199
    Lifer
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Maybe i was the only one who heard it when he called Mexicans rapists
    He didn't though - he said the people who want to leave Mexico and come to the US are the bottom rung of the Mexican population. And was claiming that those people are rapists. It's fear-mongering. But it isn't racism.

    "The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. … When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    what do you need the details for? dems pass health care without even reading what they are voting for
    That's not really accurate. They don't read the final text in full, but that makes it sound like they're rubber stamping stuff they have no knowledge about. And frankly, while the Democrats admit they don't read the full text, I think many of the Republicans are just lying by omission, implying they all read it when they know they don't.

    Pelosi just said something shockingly stupid. Either she's really that dumb, or, she misspoke. I think I have to give her credit for speaking on the fly. I know I've had to end a sentence with "wait, I said that wrong". When speaking about economic principles, you really won't know until you try. It's all just theory until you pass the bill.

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    Last edited by aldend123; 12-30-15 at 10:52 PM.
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  25. #200

    Re: Trump

    Hillary mis-speaks. Everyone else lies. Save "mis-spoke" for the professional.

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