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Trump

  1. #2201
    Posting Freak gixxer72's Avatar
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    Re: Trump


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    What a lot of people seem to be missing the boat on is a quality 2 year technical degree. There are a HUGE amount of options out there that offer excellent job training to good paying jobs in a myriad of fields. Additionally, many have an option to advance to a bachelor's degree later. Since I didn't vote for Gary Johnson, I won't shit up the thread with my own self-righteousness on the subject, but it was absolutely the correct move for my career.

    I would also argue that while many people who attend community college my not be the best and the brightest in the traditional sense, they are some of the hardest working and most driven people I've been around.
    Absolutely. Also worth noting is a lot of career paths for tech schools are non-outsourceable jobs...I'm encouraging my oldest to go this route.

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  2. #2202
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer72 View Post
    Absolutely. Also worth noting is a lot of career paths for tech schools are non-outsourceable jobs...I'm encouraging my oldest to go this route.
    Very true. A lot of biotech and medical choices, many in advanced trades, I personally did Electronics Engineering.

    I've said this a lot this year for some reason, but if I had it to do all over again; I would have gone to school to be a crane operator.

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    I went to MMI I know what Im doing here chief

  3. #2203
    Posting Freak joeswamp's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    People forget that the concept of public high school itself is relatively recent. A hundred years ago almost nobody graduated from high school outside of New England, the traditional path was elementary school and then grammar school, ending in the 8th grade. The high school movement started in the early 20th century, and was driven by companies demanding workers with higher than 8th grade skills. This is why many old high schools are named after early 20th century presidents (e.g. Taft, Wilson, etc) -- these were literally the first high schools built in those areas.

    It's true that a university education really used to be a recreational activity for the wealthy. Basically you'd study art or history for four years, then come back and help manage the family fortune. In the last hundred years college has in many cases become more of step beyond high school, where you learn stuff that's useful for your career. Having said that, there are still lots of schools and/or degrees that don't provide any career value, and there's still an attitude in this country that everyone needs to go to college rather than a practical trade school. This isn't true in Europe, and I've read that it really started here in the US because college was a mechanism of avoiding Vietnam. However the attitude has stuck even though the Vietnam war ended long ago.

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    Last edited by joeswamp; 01-11-17 at 05:13 PM.
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  4. #2204
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    Spending more money on education doesn't mean that we are more educated.
    If we're going to waste money, I vote we waste it on this.
    And fixing the damned bridges on 495.

    Cold reality is that the US education system is sorely underfunded. You of all people know that well. I know you do.

    My only complaint with the Bernie program was it targeted higher education and ignored primary. I realize he did that because it got the headlines. But I'm not sure building a really nice house on a shitty foundation is such a hot idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
    A university degree has *never* been about practical skills. It was supposed to teach people how to read, research, and think. To provide a wide base so people who got one could learn from history, vote intelligently, write coherently, know and appreciate fine culture, and generally operate on a more elevated level of understanding. A lot of this concept has been lost now, without much to make up for that.
    This.

    I'm reminded of the guys in my CS200 level classes that were pissed to hell that we were learning some obscure language that virtually no company in the wild used for production code. They wanted to learn Java, because that's what was in demand. They were missing the point; we weren't there to learn a skill, we were there to learn how to learn a skill.

    Cutting the 70% you complain about is watering down the degree program. Exactly what Jay is on about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    I would also argue that while many people who attend community college my not be the best and the brightest in the traditional sense, they are some of the hardest working and most driven people I've been around.
    I went to a 4 year (5 actually, including mandatory internships) program as a regular matriculated student. We had a bunch show up after the 2nd year, transferred in from 2 year programs and absolutely blew the bell to all hell. Those of us that had been there from day 1 looked like idiots. And when we found out what they'd paid for their fist 2 years vs us.. well, we felt it.

    That said, they had plenty of stories of the kids that had fallen off the wagon, partied themselves into oblivion and had nothing to show for the 2 years.

    I guess the moral is that those programs are absolutely fantastic ways to get ahead in life, assuming you have the dedication and determination to back it up. Which, really, is the case with almost anything.

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  5. #2205
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Stromper View Post
    The 2007/2008 recession was companies and banks looking forward to a democrat controlled government in 2008. Initially Hillary but then Obama which was an unknown but probably worse than the Hillary

    Obama lead us out of recession by printing trillions of dollars and additionally redistributing an additional 10 trillion in debt

    Materiel extraction and manufacturing create wealth, some intellectual property too. EVERYTHING else is just moving
    or inflating existing wealth. The Federal regulations now make it down right silly to do anything in the USA.

    Unemployment numbers are a joke, they certainly could at least check the tax returns and really know, which they don't want to


    Education is a joke, none really care other than to have the summer off. A modern Bachelor can't pass a 1916
    high school graduation test. Give them more money they will pimp the teachers lounge.

    Trump may fail as he crashes against the Washington status quo gravy train. The republican congress is every bit as invested
    in the swamp being full.

    I amuse my self recalling

    There used to be signage

    How do you expect me to drain the swamp when I am up to my ass in alligators

    All of which is illegal because of the EPA.
    There's a certain irony in your claims that education today is a joke given your weakness in cohesive sentence structure.

    I looked for, and couldn't find anything about a 1916 high school test. But instead I found a 1912 8th grade exam and it's answers. There's also this 1895 8th grade exam.

    A few of the questions in each address things that have changed a while ago, or are no longer as significant. And I think it's fair to say that there's quite a few things many of us learned and then forgot in 10 years. What's more important is knowing they exist, and how to find the answers. Pre-internet, you'd head down to the library or maybe you had a reference book around the house. The internet makes this 10x easier. There's things I use moderately often on the job that I still have to look up a reference for to remind myself. It's a surprisingly complicated problem to gauge overall intelligence. Strict assessment of standardized knowledge really doesn't paint a good picture.

    And despite your claim of education being a joke, we seem to have made great strides with technology, engineering, electricity, transportation, food, medicine, etc etc. We must be doing some parts of education well.

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  6. #2206
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    It's a surprisingly complicated problem to gauge overall intelligence. Strict assessment of standardized knowledge really doesn't paint a good picture.
    To this end I think we tend to over-equate educated with intelligent. Case in point, I bet we all know a lot of people that might not score high on an I.Q. test but have a much more well rounded education than you would think at first glance. Jack of all trades master of none type. Contrast them against the wicked smaht people who are encyclopedic on very limited subject matter and woefully ignorant on the bulk of things. An advanced degree does not necessarily make you a well educated person big picture wise.

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  7. #2207
    Lifer
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    To this end I think we tend to over-equate educated with intelligent. Case in point, I bet we all know a lot of people that might not score high on an I.Q. test but have a much more well rounded education than you would think at first glance. Jack of all trades master of none type. Contrast them against the wicked smaht people who are encyclopedic on very limited subject matter and woefully ignorant on the bulk of things. An advanced degree does not necessarily make you a well educated person big picture wise.
    Right. What is the criteria for smart, intelligent, or educated? They're all surprisingly hard to define. You can probably gauge narrow topics fairly well. But broadly is tough. High IQ maybe means excellent logical reasoning, but doesn't necessarily translate in other aspects of life. Can solve a riddle or a rubix cube in 30 seconds but can't understand a joke.

    I think the phrase you're looking for is 'book smart'. Many people can memorize material, but can't figure out how to calculate a tip, how to apply gambler's fallacy, or handle right of way at an intersection.

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  8. #2208
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    Re: Trump

    I don't know, there's a lot of stupid people. No, really, it's fucking scary out there these days....

    I don't think you can equate a test from 100 years ago to today's people. Things then are much different than now, emphasis on what's important in education has changed. After all, I don't think any of us could pass my great^57 uncle Ugg's class on wildlife evasion, and it doesn't have anything to do with not having a saber toothed tiger to perform the final.

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  9. #2209
    Back marker... jwm2k3's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    What a lot of people seem to be missing the boat on is a quality 2 year technical degree. There are a HUGE amount of options out there that offer excellent job training to good paying jobs in a myriad of fields. Additionally, many have an option to advance to a bachelor's degree later. Since I didn't vote for Gary Johnson, I won't shit up the thread with my own self-righteousness on the subject, but it was absolutely the correct move for my career.

    I would also argue that while many people who attend community college my not be the best and the brightest in the traditional sense, they are some of the hardest working and most driven people I've been around.
    This is a great post.

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  10. #2210
    Lifer Pinned's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    That said, they had plenty of stories of the kids that had fallen off the wagon, partied themselves into oblivion and had nothing to show for the 2 years.

    I guess the moral is that those programs are absolutely fantastic ways to get ahead in life, assuming you have the dedication and determination to back it up. Which, really, is the case with almost anything.
    Makes me wonder what 2 year school they attended. I think it's a pretty big draw that there is the definitive lack of a party scene at most CC's. Not to say people won't drink their way out of school regardless, but it is a much different environment. Most people who are attending there are doing so on their own dime (not that student loans aren't your own dime, but they're packaged as something you don't have to worry about now.) Most who attend are already in the work force. An awful lot have some external motivation to improve their situation (spouse, kids, mortgage) that most traditional college/university students don't have. A lot are older than traditional students (I started at 20.)

    We've definitely been seeing a change in the narrative over the last several years that it is imperative one gets a bachelor's degree. More people understand that it isn't the key to success and the pendulum is starting to swing the other way. I could definitely see education developing more towards an a la carte basis and you build skills as your career progresses. I for one think it's absolutely laughable to teach a 19 year old advanced business management strategies. It has *some* value to understanding the culture they're going to be entering but mostly I believe contributes to an attitude of entitlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    To this end I think we tend to over-equate educated with intelligent. Case in point, I bet we all know a lot of people that might not score high on an I.Q. test but have a much more well rounded education than you would think at first glance. Jack of all trades master of none type. Contrast them against the wicked smaht people who are encyclopedic on very limited subject matter and woefully ignorant on the bulk of things. An advanced degree does not necessarily make you a well educated person big picture wise.
    I don't believe society as a whole over equates educated with intelligent, I think that the well educated equated their own education to intelligence. Most of us here in the middle know better because we have a lot of experience around very intelligent people who have don't have a lot of education after high school. Also, I would argue that well educated is exactly what an advanced degree makes you.

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  11. #2211
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    Also, I would argue that well educated is exactly what an advanced degree makes you.

    What I was trying to get at is that advanced degrees often mean you are well educated with a narrow focus. Broaden the spectrum and I see a lot of folks whose knowledge base is woefully inadequate overall even though they've forgotten more than I'll ever know (or could begin to comprehend) about their field.

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  12. #2212
    Take Chance, Shit Pants TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Giuliani, as a "cybersecurity" advisor?

    What's next? An anti-vaxer to head up a panel on vaccines?

    Shit is getting comical. Well, more-so than it previously was. This next 4 years (or until impeachment or we're "annexed" by Russia) should be a lot of fun.

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  13. #2213
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    Re: Trump

    Good news is Trump has this thread to peruse if he ever needs advice from motorcycle weirdos.

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  14. #2214
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by cdovego View Post
    Good news is Trump has this thread to peruse if he ever needs advice from motorcycle weirdos.
    He could do worse....

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  15. #2215
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    Re: Trump

    I prefer "motorcycle connoisseur"

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  16. #2216
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    He could do worse....
    Ford Mustang owners forum...

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  17. #2217
    Take Chance, Shit Pants TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Trump is basically a Ford Mustang leaving a Cars and Coffee. I just hope I'm not a spectator standing on the sidewalk.

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  18. #2218
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    Makes me wonder what 2 year school they attended. I think it's a pretty big draw that there is the definitive lack of a party scene at most CC's. Not to say people won't drink their way out of school regardless, but it is a much different environment. Most people who are attending there are doing so on their own dime (not that student loans aren't your own dime, but they're packaged as something you don't have to worry about now.) Most who attend are already in the work force. An awful lot have some external motivation to improve their situation (spouse, kids, mortgage) that most traditional college/university students don't have. A lot are older than traditional students (I started at 20.)
    Not all 2 year programs are CC's. For example, Dean College in Franklin, MA is mostly a two year private school. Pretty sure it's a stepping point to Suffolk for some. But on campus, it has a full 4-year feel with dorms and parties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    We've definitely been seeing a change in the narrative over the last several years that it is imperative one gets a bachelor's degree. More people understand that it isn't the key to success and the pendulum is starting to swing the other way. I could definitely see education developing more towards an a la carte basis and you build skills as your career progresses. I for one think it's absolutely laughable to teach a 19 year old advanced business management strategies. It has *some* value to understanding the culture they're going to be entering but mostly I believe contributes to an attitude of entitlement.
    when I graduated highschool in a pretty solidly middle class area with lots of very engaged parents, the undertone was not 'if' you were going to college but 'which one'. I don't think it was an uppity(?) thing, it was just seen as the next step. The rare exceptions being the few destined for military. My school was directly across the street from a technical highschool, so almost anyone heading for a trade switched in 8th grade. When I graduated college, I was enrolled in an accelerated master's program. I was gung-ho for the next step, but got a job instead. Market was bad, loans were climbing, so the job offer was too hard to pass up. The more I worked, the more I wondered how much benefit the masters would have been on a technical level. There's still baby-boomers who work with me that recommend I go complete the masters. I can't really see the benefit. Maybe some day down the road, and I think I'd get so much more out of it then. But 5 years of college with basically no work experience kinda seems backwards.

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  19. #2219
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post

    [/FONT][/COLOR]The employment rate is a much easier nob to turn. If you can get someone to not look for a job, that helps the unemployment rate, but not the employment participation rate. My opinion is that the labor participation rate is a much more telling statistic than the unemployment rate.
    keep in mind that baby boomers are starting to retire. so the employment participation rate will start falling fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Giuliani, as a "cybersecurity" advisor?

    What's next? An anti-vaxer to head up a panel on vaccines?

    Shit is getting comical. Well, more-so than it previously was. This next 4 years (or until impeachment or we're "annexed" by Russia) should be a lot of fun.
    his whole cabinet is ridiculous. i love that during the campaign he harped all over how HRC was in bed with the big banks etc...then he elects a goldman sachs guy for treasurer. really?
    with all his appointments, its easy to see where his allegiances lie. its exactly where i thought they did and his supporters denied.

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    Last edited by SVRACER01; 01-15-17 at 01:16 PM.
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  20. #2220
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    keep in mind that baby boomers are starting to retire..
    starting? I' say that threshold went by nearly a decade ago, 40-50% of boomers have already retired, I am one of the few my age that is still working

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  21. #2221
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    starting? I' say that threshold went by nearly a decade ago, 40-50% of boomers have already retired, I am one of the few my age that is still working
    Why?

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  22. #2222
    Take Chance, Shit Pants TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Same reason that if he pays his employees more into the next tax bracket, they will make less money.

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  23. #2223
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Why?
    2008

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  24. #2224
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    starting? I' say that threshold went by nearly a decade ago, 40-50% of boomers have already retired, I am one of the few my age that is still working
    that still leaves like 40-50 million people that are reaching retirement age in the next several years. boomers would reach retirement age starting in 2011. add in the fact that people are working longer than 65 (some for the reason you stated above..2008) and that would increase that 40-50M number by a bunch as well.

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  25. #2225
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyO View Post
    2008
    That's not an answer.
    You may have had less lots to survey for a minute, but surely things recovered and you're more ahead now than ever.
    At least, if you'd just left your investments in an index fund you'd be...

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