Welcome to NESR! Most features of this site require registration, including replying to threads, sending private messages, starting new threads, and uploading files. Click here to register.

Results 1 to 23 of 23

Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

  1. #1
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Palmer, MA
    Posts
    473

    Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach


    This article contains all the videos: Police body-cam videos show violent arrest of woman at Wildwood beach: 'That's it. You're about to get dropped,' officer says - Philly

    My synopsis: Police see closed containers of alcohol next to this woman's towel. They decide to ask her to take a breathalyzer because they suspect she is under age. She voluntarily takes the breathalyzer and passes. They ask her to retake it and she once again complies. They ask her age. 20. They ask her who the alcohol belongs to and she says it is her aunts who walked down the beach. They ask her to call her aunt and ask that she returns. She does. Meanwhile, they ask her name. She gives first name but withholds last which is completely legal in New Jersey up to the point of arrest. Cop threatens to arrest her if she doesn't provide her last name. She refuses. Cop goes haywire and things get ugly.

    I've seen a lot of people defending the police here, and I just don't understand it. She was being far more cooperative than she had to be by law. Did she get physical when they tried to arrest her? Sure, but I can't say she was unreasonably so given the situation. It seems the proper reaction would be to wait for the aunts return. As far as I can tell, the woman that was punched did nothing illegal before the fight broke out.

    Perhaps this shouldn't be in "Controversial Topics", but given the discourse I have seen on this issue, I figured I would play it safe.

    Thoughts?

    2 Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Dic on
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    13,855

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    If only she had just complied.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

    1 Not allowed!
    "Too bad ponies are assholes."

    OXX

  3. #3
    Lifer isaac_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Central CT
    Posts
    1,045

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Did you see the three videos? She shoved the officer in the last one BEFORE he got handsy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    0 Not allowed!
    Isaac LRRS/CCS #871 ECK Racing | Spears Enterprises | GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
    Bike: SV650, Bride of Frankenstein

  4. #4
    Dic on
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    13,855

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by isaac_ View Post
    Did you see the three videos? She shoved the officer in the last one BEFORE he got handsy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have been shoved by women a couple of times in my life. My response is simply to beat them repeatedly in the head with my fist. Until they comply.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

    3 Not allowed!
    "Too bad ponies are assholes."

    OXX

  5. #5
    Lifer isaac_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Central CT
    Posts
    1,045

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Iím not saying the amount of force used was justified. I donít know what amount of force is deemed justifiable. I wanted to point out it wasnít like the cop went from asking questions to using force. There was a catalyst.

    Also, I read somewhere these cops were summer hires that aspire to be in law enforcement? Somehow I got the sense they werenít full time cops... perhaps lacked the proper training.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    0 Not allowed!
    Isaac LRRS/CCS #871 ECK Racing | Spears Enterprises | GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
    Bike: SV650, Bride of Frankenstein

  6. #6
    Dic on
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    13,855

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    I don't disagree with you. Just playing devils advocate.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

    0 Not allowed!
    "Too bad ponies are assholes."

    OXX

  7. #7
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    32
    Posts
    2,745

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by isaac_ View Post
    Did you see the three videos? She shoved the officer in the last one BEFORE he got handsy.
    We should be a little more specific. She shoved the officer laying on her back in the sand while he was in a position over her attempting to perform an arrest. When you say 'before he got handsy', he'd already taken her to the ground by the hair. Point being it's not like the two where standing having a conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by isaac_ View Post
    There was a catalyst.
    There sure was - and it was the officer(s) walking around a beach breathalyzing random people who aren't causing a problem, with closed containers. Dwelling on her resisting the arrest misses the core problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by isaac_ View Post
    perhaps lacked the proper training.
    If you need training to know you don't closed-fist punch someone in the head while attempting to arrest them for not providing a last name, you might not be intelligent enough for the task.

    2 Not allowed!
    02 Aprilia Futura
    86 GPz900R

  8. #8
    #494
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Rochester MA
    Age
    44
    Posts
    696

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    "Reserve Officers" I think they're called. Not any excuse though, that kid was a fucking asshat. And be didnt secure his helmet properly.

    0 Not allowed!

  9. #9
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Palmer, MA
    Posts
    473

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by isaac_ View Post
    Did you see the three videos? She shoved the officer in the last one BEFORE he got handsy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm not saying she should have done that, but the officer was WAY out of line. He was pissed that she wouldn't give her last name, which she had every right to withhold, as she was neither under arrest at the time nor being issued a citation.

    Does resisting arrest stand up on an unlawful arrest?

    2 Not allowed!

  10. #10
    Lifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bristol County
    Age
    32
    Posts
    2,745

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by TwelveGaugeSage View Post
    I'm not saying she should have done that, but the officer was WAY out of line. He was pissed that she wouldn't give her last name, which she had every right to withhold, as she was neither under arrest at the time nor being issued a citation.
    Do you have a source for that? Because I thought that varied state to state and typically did require more than just a first name.
    Quote Originally Posted by TwelveGaugeSage View Post
    Does resisting arrest stand up on an unlawful arrest?
    There's where it gets logically tricky. I believe the answer is generally 'yes'.

    First, it isn't up to the suspect to determine whether the arrest is lawful. The officer thinks they have grounds to arrest you. You get to plead your innocence to the Judge. You don't get to decide you're innocent and resist the arrest. Technically, I think if an officer is doing something grossly violent/devious, or the suspect believes their life to be in danger, there may be a legal stage when you get to defend yourself. But that's defense from immediate danger, not defense from reasonable physical attempts to be subdued.

    The secondary issue is that she was walking away from him during his questioning. I believe he has grounds to detain her, which can include handcuffs, for some reasonable duration of time while deciding whether or not to charge her with a crime. I'm not sure if this example met whatever criteria would be required to detain her, but it's still important to recognize it is an option.

    0 Not allowed!
    02 Aprilia Futura
    86 GPz900R

  11. #11
    Dic on
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    13,855

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    "O'er the land of the freeeeeeeeeee"!


    My ass.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

    1 Not allowed!
    "Too bad ponies are assholes."

    OXX

  12. #12
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Palmer, MA
    Posts
    473

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Do you have a source for that? Because I thought that varied state to state and typically did require more than just a first name.
    See: Stop and identify statutes - Wikipedia

    Take note of Terry Stops and the SCOTUS ruling involved.

    There's where it gets logically tricky. I believe the answer is generally 'yes'.

    First, it isn't up to the suspect to determine whether the arrest is lawful. The officer thinks they have grounds to arrest you. You get to plead your innocence to the Judge. You don't get to decide you're innocent and resist the arrest. Technically, I think if an officer is doing something grossly violent/devious, or the suspect believes their life to be in danger, there may be a legal stage when you get to defend yourself. But that's defense from immediate danger, not defense from reasonable physical attempts to be subdued.

    The secondary issue is that she was walking away from him during his questioning. I believe he has grounds to detain her, which can include handcuffs, for some reasonable duration of time while deciding whether or not to charge her with a crime. I'm not sure if this example met whatever criteria would be required to detain her, but it's still important to recognize it is an option.
    I agree with you on resisting. Make sure you are justified if you do it. I'm not so sure on walking away. If he gives a lawful order to stop, I believe it goes into a Terry Stop.

    0 Not allowed!

  13. #13
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    MoonTown
    Posts
    4,489

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    I hate when I get sand in my jackboots.

    3 Not allowed!
    Dad's Dream: Earn enough money to live the life that his wife and kids do.

  14. #14
    Lifer Jayspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Medford, MA.
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,150

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    I see a couple young dumb hot head cops who could use a good punch. I'm usually on the cops side because I respect the shit they deal with but these guys were out of line. In the end they were trying to get her for possession of alcohol. Just because she wouldn't give her last name was the be all end all way to prove it? I don't recall and also I didn't watch it second by second but did they ask for an ID? If the Aunt didn't show up, I think the officers should have just taken the alcohol away. Simple done deal.

    0 Not allowed!
    Jay
    2013 gixxer 750
    2009 Ducati M1100s
    2017 KTM exc-f 350

  15. #15
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Palmer, MA
    Posts
    473

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayspeed View Post
    I see a couple young dumb hot head cops who could use a good punch. I'm usually on the cops side because I respect the shit they deal with but these guys were out of line. In the end they were trying to get her for possession of alcohol. Just because she wouldn't give her last name was the be all end all way to prove it? I don't recall and also I didn't watch it second by second but did they ask for an ID? If the Aunt didn't show up, I think the officers should have just taken the alcohol away. Simple done deal.
    They asked for her last name. The question is if she had to give it or not. If they were citing her, she would have. However, at no point in the four videos did that seem to be the case. They also didn't appear to have anything to cite her for. The alcohol was closed, she claimed it wasn't hers, and she passed the breathalyzer. I think I read that the police claim they were going to cite her for underage drinking, which is laughable considering the containers were closed and she passed the breathalyzer.

    They COULD say that they were citing her for possession and it just isn't on the video, but that too seems ridiculous without waiting for the aunt to either confirm or deny it. Either way, she is 20 with an 18 month old child for crying out loud. If she was under-aged drinking, so what. Is crime so low in that area that this is what they do to keep busy?

    NJ had a SNAFU recently where a lawyer in their personal vehicle was asked questions during a traffic stop. She refused to answer those questions and they arrested her. She won $30,000. See: N.J. state troopers arrested her for staying silent. Now the state will pay. | NJ.com

    1 Not allowed!

  16. #16
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Danvers, MA
    Age
    39
    Posts
    36,666

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    "O'er the land of the freeeeeeeeeee"!


    My ass.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
    Nao leesin hear! Iffin ya don't like amurika, den go back to austria and throw another shrimp on da barbie, ya scottish limey bastard!

    0 Not allowed!
    -Pete LRRS/CCS #82 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays, Ironstone Ventures
    GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media

    The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650

  17. #17
    Lifer Jayspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Medford, MA.
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,150

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by TwelveGaugeSage View Post
    They asked for her last name. The question is if she had to give it or not. If they were citing her, she would have. However, at no point in the four videos did that seem to be the case. They also didn't appear to have anything to cite her for. The alcohol was closed, she claimed it wasn't hers, and she passed the breathalyzer. I think I read that the police claim they were going to cite her for underage drinking, which is laughable considering the containers were closed and she passed the breathalyzer.

    They COULD say that they were citing her for possession and it just isn't on the video, but that too seems ridiculous without waiting for the aunt to either confirm or deny it. Either way, she is 20 with an 18 month old child for crying out loud. If she was under-aged drinking, so what. Is crime so low in that area that this is what they do to keep busy?

    NJ had a SNAFU recently where a lawyer in their personal vehicle was asked questions during a traffic stop. She refused to answer those questions and they arrested her. She won $30,000. See: N.J. state troopers arrested her for staying silent. Now the state will pay. | NJ.com
    Bad mentorship on these cadets. I'd question their abilities to take a situation in their own hands. Why would I think this? How would I know their training? In every practice you learn the books and then there is just plain o'l realism. You have to have common sense to lead a situation. This should be an eye opener for their department.

    0 Not allowed!
    Jay
    2013 gixxer 750
    2009 Ducati M1100s
    2017 KTM exc-f 350

  18. #18
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Haverhill, MA
    Age
    48
    Posts
    3,114

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by TwelveGaugeSage View Post
    They also didn't appear to have anything to cite her for. The alcohol was closed, she claimed it wasn't hers, and she passed the breathalyzer.
    Just curious as I have no horse in the race here.

    Did they ever show what the results of the breathalyzer were? She may not have blown high enough to be considered publicly intoxicated but if she is under age and they register any B.A.C. at all then they could cite her for underage drinking, couldn't they?

    0 Not allowed!

  19. #19
    Senior Member TwelveGaugeSage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Palmer, MA
    Posts
    473

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    Just curious as I have no horse in the race here.

    Did they ever show what the results of the breathalyzer were? She may not have blown high enough to be considered publicly intoxicated but if she is under age and they register any B.A.C. at all then they could cite her for underage drinking, couldn't they?
    I thought it was said in the video that it was negative, but after watching again, the results remain unknown. She says, "I know that didn't come up positive, I didn't take a drink of anything". The cop doesn't argue with her and never mentions her having failed the test. Also, she seemed pretty sure of herself taking the test without argument. I do believe she could be cited for any result on the breathalyzer though.

    However, to throw another wrench into the mix, NJ allows under-aged drinking on private property with parental permission. It seems a little goofy to allow it, then cite someone for it once they walk outside, but I digress.

    0 Not allowed!

  20. #20
    Lifer Jayspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Medford, MA.
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,150

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Two children given the power to do/try to do a mans job. Wait......but I'm not in law enforcement.....then what the heck do i know? My goodness! Thank god they were there for this potentially violent outcome!

    0 Not allowed!
    Jay
    2013 gixxer 750
    2009 Ducati M1100s
    2017 KTM exc-f 350

  21. #21
    Member motoarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Norwalk/ new london
    Posts
    206

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    That officer is a peice of shit and has no right to carry a badge.

    1 Not allowed!

  22. #22
    Posting Freak joeswamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Swampscott, MA
    Posts
    977

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    To me the issue is not the behavior of these knuckleheads, but the fact that they were allowed to go out and interact with the public unsupervised. Apparently they were in some kind of training program. Their behavior demonstrates that they weren't anywhere near close to done. Whoever was responsible for letting them loose needs to lose his job.

    Then there's this situation, which is even more disturbing:

    Quote Originally Posted by TwelveGaugeSage View Post
    NJ had a SNAFU recently where a lawyer in their personal vehicle was asked questions during a traffic stop. She refused to answer those questions and they arrested her. She won $30,000. See: N.J. state troopers arrested her for staying silent. Now the state will pay. | NJ.com
    If real NJ police are running amok without a basic understanding of the laws they're trying to enforce, there's a significant problem. The best part of that story is that when they arrest her for remaining silent, they tell her, "you have a right to remain silent."

    2 Not allowed!
    Last edited by joeswamp; 06-02-18 at 02:21 PM.
    Joe
    04 Thruxton (Street)
    01 SV650 (Track)
    75 CB400F (Future Vintage Racer)
    68 BSA Royal Star (Garage Floor Lubricator)

  23. #23
    Lifer Jayspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Medford, MA.
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,150

    Re: Woman Punched by Police on Wildwood Beach

    Quote Originally Posted by joeswamp View Post
    To me the issue is not the behavior of these knuckleheads, but the fact that they were allowed to go out and interact with the public unsupervised. Apparently they were in some kind of training program. Their behavior demonstrates that they weren't anywhere near close to done. Whoever was responsible for letting them loose needs to lose his job.

    Then there's this situation, which is even more disturbing:



    If real NJ police are running amok without a basic understanding of the laws they're trying to enforce, there's a significant problem. The best part of that story is that when they arrest her for remaining silent, they tell her, "you have a right to remain silent."
    I agree hells ya. But. Their behavior was not good. I'd be pretty darn pissed if I was the father, husband, brother, cousin, boyfriend etc...I don't think this shit should be posted online. The amount of bull shit this girl will see on social media will be devastating.

    0 Not allowed!
    Jay
    2013 gixxer 750
    2009 Ducati M1100s
    2017 KTM exc-f 350

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •