1983 XR200r idle problems

[catch2otwo]

my xr200r has an idling problem. i adjusted the pilot screw per service manual specs ( 2.5 turns out from slightly seated). the thing i cant find in the manual and am confused about is choke and idle relationship.

1. when i cold start the bike, is the black chock lever supposed to be in the highest setting, aka all the way up? or all the way down?
- Problem is sometimes it will start with it all the way up but when i switch it to the other settings it will die. and sometimes it will start on the other setting and die if i put it on some other setting.

2. it idles really high, and cant seem to fine tune with the idle speed screw. it will change the idle but it wont be consistant. right now it idles so high that if i just let it coast in gear, it will over power the rear brake.

3. usually after i get it started, it will start popping (backfiring?) when i start to rev it

help!

[ChR1s]

Some Honda's have an arrow on the choke lever, denoting which direction to move the lever to activate the choke. If you can see the plunger, the plunger should be out to activate the choke.

Besides that, it sounds like the carb's idle circuit is gummed up. Pick up some Gumout, pull the carb, and go to town on that thing.

[catch2otwo]

thanks chriss, the arrow on the lever points in the up direction. so im thinking it should be all the way up upon start up. surprisingly i cant find a damn thing about the choke in the service manual.

i plan to pull it out and clean the hell out of it this weekend. when you do that do you need to buy new parts for it or can it just be pulled apart, cleaned and the reassembled using the same parts?

[TheIglu]

Pull it apart and clean it out good but gently. If there are any seals that look dry, cracked or damaged, replace them. Other than that, just reassemble and set the adjustments for the pilot jet as the book says. You should be pretty close to where you need to be at that point.

[catch2otwo]

honda dealer should have seals and what not right?

[TheIglu]

They will probably have to order them.

[ChR1s]

The symptoms you've described sound like a lean condition, which is common these days with the gasoline that gums up carbs quickly if it's left to evaporate in the carb. The residue clogs the small, idle/pilot circuits and the bike will be a PITA to start and tough to get to idle. Often, adjustments made to get the bike to run will only mask the real culprit.

The lean condition could also be a result of a cracked/leaking intake manifold, the part between the carb and the engine. I won't tell you what to use, but you can use an aerosol can of ______ to spray around the area while the engine is running to see if there's any change in operation RPM which would indicate a leak.


If you're going to tear into the carb, take care with the float not to tweak the adjustment tab -- that can alter the float height and mess up the fueling at higher operating RMP. The rest of the assembly is pretty foolproof.

Most carb bowls these days have an o-ring for a seal, which are quite durable. Whatever you do, DO NOT cram any sort of wire or some such into any orafice -- that brass stuff is very soft.

[catch2otwo]

thanks, i was planning on going real slow tearing into as i have never done it before. i have the service manual, so i think i will be alright. as for the leaking manifold, i already checked for leaks using the spray can method already, no leaks.

in the manual it showed carb cleaner as like a paint bucket with a strainer, do they still sell this stuff or will an aresol can of carb cleaner do the trick?

also once it is all back together, the bike is entirely stock, but i am going to pick up a new air filter for it. how do i know if the jets are correct? not sure if the other owners ever changed anything

[ChR1s]

Since you've got the service manul, I'll assume you've already checked the valves? Compression?

I just use the aerosol stuff. The bucket'o carb cleaner isn't the easiest stuff to find these days.

Most jets have stamped numbers on them.

[catch2otwo]

havnt checked anything yet. just got it the other week and have been trying to deal with the starting/idling problem. last owner said the timing chain broke so he had put a new timing chain in, new valves as well as rings. do i still gotta check all that stuff or should it be good

[ChR1s]

It's so easy to check the valves on an old XR/XL, there's absolutely no reason not to.

[catch2otwo]

guess ill check the valves too, am i just checking the backlash?

[catch2otwo]

well i cleaned the carb and installed it again. after about a dozen kicks it fired, i adjusted the idle and it idled fine. this was a few days ago. today i tried kicking it over and no dice, back to how it was before i cleaned it.

it will kind of pop and sputter but never full starts except for a couple times. air filter is new, petcock works so i know gas is flowing into the carb. im thinking maybe the float is defective and never floating when the bowl fills with gas? after about an hour of trying to get it started the plug is still completly dry.

it is getting spark by the way. i checked the local dealer for a float and it was 40 bucks. but i was thinking for that much i could buy a new knock off carb off ebay?

[SSearchVT]

Before trying to start it, turn the gas on, and lean the bike over real far. Keep it there until gas is running out of the overflow tubes on the carb. This will let you know if the needle/seat/float is working OK.

[catch2otwo]

so if i lean the bike on its side with the petcock open, and gas runs out the overflow tubes, is that telling me the float is working or not working?

since my plug is completely dry after a million kicks im assuming gas is not getting from the carb to the motor. is that assumption correct?

[SSearchVT]

Leaning the bike over with the petcock open makes sure that the float bowl is full - and that the float/needle/seat is working. It should flow out of the tube while it's leaned over, and stop flowing when the bike is stood up. If it doesn't flow, tap on the side of the bowl with a screwdriver handle a few times (stuck needle and seat). If it doesn't stop there is a bad float, or needle and seat. You shouldn't need a new float unless yours has a hole in it which would allow gas into it.

Not to be condescending here - there is enough fresh gas in the tank - right?

There is also a filter on the petcock in the tank - take the fuel line off the carb, open the petcock and make sure gas comes out. If it doesn't - take the petcock off the tank and clean out the filter.

On a carb rebuild - you can also save yourself a lot of kicking by taking the plug out, put about 1/2 teaspoon of gas in the cylinder, and put the plug back in. The bike should fire up on the first kick. I also take the extra step on carb rebuilds and run a few tanks of gas through it with carb cleaner mixed in. The rebuild gets the ports open, the carb clean takes care of the residual gunk.

[catch2otwo]

thanks. ill lean it over tongiht when i get home. as for gas in tank, its completely fresh. tank is flushed, and topped half full with fresh 93 oct. gas comes out of the petcock no problem

we pulled the plug out and put some gas directly in the cylinder and it started after a few kicks. i know the bike will run after a while of kicking, but the carb is spotless inside and everything went back in as it came out. im thinking it is a fuel delivery problem.

i have not checked timing yet, but the bike will run fine once it starts so i dont think its a timing problem but ya never know. this problem is getting annoying. kicking it over 50 times is getting old.

[SSearchVT]

It does sound like a fuel problem - But -

At their best the mid-80's honda four strokes were cold blooded and a pain to kick over. My Dad had the XR250 (dual carb pain in the ass). Kick starting was a procedure - choke it if it's cold, lean the bike over to make sure the float bowl is full, slowly cycle the kick starter to get it on the compression stroke, kick real hard. Get your foot off the kick starter quickly - if not it could catch and throw your foot up over the bar.

Take a look at the inside of the fuel line, if it's old and cruddy - it could be breaking down and putting chunks into the carb and plugging it up. I chased this on my lawn mower for a little bit. Cleaned the carb, ran great, sat for a few days, ran like crap. Squeeze the line at the ends and in the middle - it should feel the same.

[catch2otwo]

alright ill check the lines and probably will just replace it with new lines. on thumpertalk i hear of everyone getting their early 80s xr's kicked over in like 2 kicks, right now two kicks would be like heaven.

[Paul_E_D]

Adjust the points???

[catch2otwo]

i dont think it has points. its got the cdi ignition

[Paul_E_D]

Lol! I don't remember what year they ditched the points, but I always suggest that. I thought it was later than it apparently was...

[catch2otwo]

haha thanks anyway.


well quick update, i kicked it three times no dice, so i said screw it, took it to the top of the hill rolled it down in second gear and just popped the clutch and she fired right up. rode it for about 15 mins to get it warm and she'd idle. after it was hot, it fired after on the 2nd kick.

gas comes out of the tube on the very bottom of the carb, im assuming that is the overflow?


an after thought i have is the kick start catches on and off. sometimes it doesnt even catch at all. is it possible that it is slipping just enough everytime to no get it to fire?

[x2468]

check ur float bowl height. it sounds like its out of spec (high idle, dumping fuel out the overflow line).

also, prob wouldn't hurt to make sure ur manifold rubber hasn't like erroded into dust. i have a 95 kx250 and it has a ton of cracks just from age.

[catch2otwo]

float bowl height? can you elaborate a little bit on that? the fuel coming out of the overflow is when i lean the bike over like one of the member suggested. nothing is coming out of it if the bike is upright.

and the rubber manifold your talking about is the rubber elbow between the carb and the engine? if thats the one then its fine, very solid.