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Is this anyone here

  1. #76
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here


    Ironically, this happened today... These trails were illegally built by friends of mine. Harold is my next door neighbor. We rode illegally there for years. Now they are going to watch for illegal trail builders? LOL
    November 29, 2016
    For Immediate Release
    New England Mountain Bike Association and Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation Partner to Open 15-mile Single-Track Trail Network at Dubuque State Forest in Hawley, MA
    (HAWLEY, MASS.) – The Department of Conservation and Recreation (DCR) and the Pioneer Valley Chapter of the New England Mountain Bike Association (NEMBA) announce a partnership to open a 15-mile network of single-track trails at Dubuque State Forest.
    “Dubuque’s single-track trails wind through gorgeous and diverse woodlands and offer a variety of challenges, loops and scenic features that mountain bikers seek,” says Harold Green, President of the PV-NEMBA Chapter. “But these trails will also provide new opportunities for cross-country skiers, hikers and trail runners as well.”
    Before approving this trail network, the DCR carefully assessed each trail to ensure that the network would protect important natural and culture resources, but also provide excellent recreational experiences to a variety of users.
    PV-NEMBA has agreed to organize volunteer trail maintenance and stewardship of the new trail system, help monitor against illegal trail building and work to educate trail users about etiquette and stewardship.
    We are very excited about this partnership to expand recreational opportunities at Dubuque,” said DCR Commissioner, Leo P. Roy. “We expect that this new trail network will draw users from both the Pioneer Valley and Berkshire County to Hawley, and we believe that excellent trail networks and recreation can have economic benefits to local communities and the region. “
    DCR and NEMBA are currently working to install signs, create new on-line maps, and build some additional trail connections.

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  2. #77
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Ironically, this happened today... These trails were illegally built by friends of mine. Harold is my next door neighbor. We rode illegally there for years. Now they are going to watch for illegal trail builders? LOL
    poachers gonna poach.

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  3. #78
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    So by extension, the way to get legit moto trails is to build first and ask permission later.

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  4. #79
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    So by extension, the way to get legit moto trails is to build first and ask permission later.
    Not in NH! I can tell you that as a landowner, I'd be ripshit and probably go after someone through legal means if they just up and started building trails on our property without permission. Even though we've been working on trails on said property for the last couple years, we'd go after them with barrels smoking if someone decided to do it on their own without permission. At that point, we'd probably close down the land for ALL recreational use for which it is currently open for...

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  5. #80
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Not in NH! I can tell you that as a landowner, I'd be ripshit and probably go after someone through legal means if they just up and started building trails on our property without permission. Even though we've been working on trails on said property for the last couple years, we'd go after them with barrels smoking if someone decided to do it on their own without permission. At that point, we'd probably close down the land for ALL recreational use for which it is currently open for...
    Lol, yeah. If you read that blurb, it was STATE forest, and instead of going after these punks like you would Jay, they legitimized the trail system. This goes back to my original point. Some hobbies get respected for class reasons. This guy is balding, retired, and transports his 5k mt bike to said trails in a Porsche SUV. I believe that has a lot to do with how they can get away with stuff like this. The environmental movement and regulations are shaped to rich people's preferences. Animals don't actually mind noise. Go to any airport with binoculars and watch the variety of birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. It's off the hook. Rich people don't like noise. Unless it's an airplane or a boat, and lord knows we can't restrict those!

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  6. #81
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Lol, yeah. If you read that blurb, it was STATE forest, and instead of going after these punks like you would Jay, they legitimized the trail system. This goes back to my original point. Some hobbies get respected for class reasons. This guy is balding, retired, and transports his 5k mt bike to said trails in a Porsche SUV. I believe that has a lot to do with how they can get away with stuff like this. The environmental movement and regulations are shaped to rich people's preferences. Animals don't actually mind noise. Go to any airport with binoculars and watch the variety of birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. It's off the hook. Rich people don't like noise. Unless it's an airplane or a boat, and lord knows we can't restrict those!
    Admittedly, I did NOT read the whole thing. I get it now though...

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  7. #82
    Changes come butcher bergs's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Unless it's an airplane or a boat, and lord knows we can't restrict those!
    In what regard are boats not restricted?

    NH noise restrictions for boats

    Speed limits are 45 mph during the day and 25 at night.

    Operators must pass a boat education class before navigating inland water bodies in NH.


    And in Mass:

    Many laws similar to NH

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  8. #83
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Yeah, I realize there are regs. There are regs for about every damn thing now. They are tipped toward certain people though.

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  9. #84
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    In what way, specifically?

    No wake zones make sense, boat classes make sense, required safety equipment makes sense, noise restrictions and speed limits are a given. I don't see how any of this caters to "rich people".

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  10. #85
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Well, the environment says otherwise. Boats are gas guzzling, oil spiling, turtle and manatee killing, ecosystem destroying luxury items. They really shouldn't be allowed many places at all. 3 or 4 little boating areas per state should suffice.

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    Last edited by Paul_E_D; 11-30-16 at 11:55 AM.
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  11. #86
    Lifer Falko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Yes, they should close Winnipesaukee to everything except canoes and Kayaks, but only those made of natural materials.

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  12. #87
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    I can't believe anyone would argue that dirt riders aren't getting the short end of the stick. There is almost nowhere left to legally ride. Why argue against that fact? Why point fingers at us?

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  13. #88
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I can't believe anyone would argue that dirt riders aren't getting the short end of the stick. Why point fingers at us?
    Because you're ripping wheelies on stolen bikes downtown. You're gonna get Range Rovered next time you shut down the highway.

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  14. #89
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    I'm not arguing for or against anything.

    I will say the logic you stated with regards to boats can be easily applied to dirtbikes.......which could be called land trenching, erosion enhancing, squirrel killing luxury items that should not be allowed in many places at all. 3 or 4 little riding places per state is more than enough.

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  15. #90
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    You are missing my whole approach here. I'm not arguing to shut anybody down. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in the arguments against dirtbikes.

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  16. #91
    Lifer
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Well, the environment says otherwise. Boats are gas guzzling, oil spiling, turtle and manatee killing, ecosystem destroying luxury items. They really shouldn't be allowed many places at all. 3 or 4 little boating areas per state should suffice.
    Yet seems like there's a boat ramp in nearly every town with a pond or better.

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  17. #92
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    You are missing my whole approach here. I'm not arguing to shut anybody down. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in the arguments against dirtbikes.
    I get what you're saying, Paul. I am merely pointing out that the exact sentiment you stated on boats are what the general public thinks about dirtbikes. That in itself is the core of the issue with obtaining more places to ride, in my opinion.

    Believe me, if things were different I'd be out there riding with you guys on a weekly basis however I've found the enjoyment of that type of recreation to be more frustrating than anything and for many of the reasons that have been brought up in this thread.

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  18. #93
    Kosher Assassin Stoneman's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    It seems fucked up, for sure. But the perception (there's that word again!) is that the skinny, higher PSI single track dirtbikes cause more damage than the wider, low PSI ATV/SxS tires. I was SHOCKED to see how many north country trail systems don't allow dirtbikes on their systems...
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    I can't believe anyone would argue that dirt riders aren't getting the short end of the stick. There is almost nowhere left to legally ride. Why argue against that fact? Why point fingers at us?
    I agree with ya, Huckleberry...

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  19. #94
    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    I don't see how a boat is anymore a "rich man's toy" than a dirtbike or a pickup truck

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  20. #95
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Ok, now we are just arguing for the sake of proving me wrong. Do you know how much a wakeboard boat costs? Or any ocean worthy boat for that matter? There is nothing in the moto world to compare. And how many of the 12 o'clock boys have boats? Hmmm? There IS class warfare going on in the environmental movement. Ignore it if you like. I'm not even poor, I have just been educated on this issue by one of the most interesting minds in conservation. A guy named Bird Westall.

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  21. #96
    Lifer
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    A 12ft fishing dingy with a 5hp on the back and a styrofoam cooler is the epitome of the working man's Saturday afternoon. But it scales rapidly. Louie Anderson asks "A rich person's hobby" Survey definitely says boat at some point.

    Why are dirtbikes still semi-isolated to the blue collar crowd? I know there's desk jockeys buying brand new KTMs, but most motos seem like they're riding in the back of someone's work truck. Is it that you really have to know how to DIY to some degree for it to be practical? Not sure I buy that because boats don't have that problem. Engine doesn't work, take it to the shop or send the boat mechanic down to the dock. Meanwhile, the MTB seems to have a high adoption rate with the six figure bunch. Less intimidating, but still requires transportation and trips to the shop.

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    Last edited by aldend123; 11-30-16 at 02:16 PM.
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  22. #97
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    A better comparison would be boats and jet skis. Jet skis are banned in a large percentage of small lakes/ponds throughout the northeast where boats are perfectly legal. Why is that? Because history has shown that younger crowds ride jet skis, and they were deemed more dangerous, noisier, more polluting and just overall more obnoxious. Nevermind the fact that there isn't a single 2-stroke jet ski in existence anymore (the SuperJet, the only 2-stroker, is "competition only" now) and they're largely cleaner than boats, they're all super quiet, and they're no less safe than a boat (in fact it could be argued they're safer from a statistics perspective). Despite this, they're still banned in a huge number of bodies of water.

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  23. #98
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    A better comparison would be boats and jet skis. Jet skis are banned in a large percentage of small lakes/ponds throughout the northeast where boats are perfectly legal. Why is that? Because history has shown that younger crowds ride jet skis, and they were deemed more dangerous, noisier, more polluting and just overall more obnoxious. Nevermind the fact that there isn't a single 2-stroke jet ski in existence anymore (the SuperJet, the only 2-stroker, is "competition only" now) and they're largely cleaner than boats, they're all super quiet, and they're no less safe than a boat (in fact it could be argued they're safer from a statistics perspective). Despite this, they're still banned in a huge number of bodies of water.
    This is EXACTLY true. They are better for the environment in every way compared to boats, and yet they are banned much more often. Who's agenda is that?

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  24. #99
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    And what is the water equivalent of a dirtbike? The jetski.

    Lot of parallels between the water and land, eh?

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  25. #100
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Is this anyone here

    Yes, big money wins every time.

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