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MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

  1. #51
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition


    Governments collect taxes, fines and fees for the same reasons dogs lick their balls: because they CAN. They CAN because sheep bend over and take it. This is comical even to the point of "Sean's law" or whatevertf it's called adding the "it's for the children" running joke as a reason for this particular flavor of money grab.

    The founding fathers must be rolling over in their graves at this crap.

    Government has NO FUCKING BUSINESS extorting people for riding dirt bikes on private land...no more than the mafia does in extorting small business owners for the privilege of running a restaurant. PERIOD.

    #draintheswamp

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  2. #52
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    We've covered the requirements for an in-state rider. What about out of staters? What is the current state of that process? How would I, a NH resident register to ride in MA right now?
    The fee is $33 for a year, that is the only information I could find on the state's website. For residents your three requirements are: completed application, bill of sale, proof of sales tax paid. I sent an email question to the state regarding additional requirements outside of the fee, but I expect you can probably just fill out the application and hand them the money. It looks like the biggest obstacle for out of staters is going to be actually getting to the DEP office. Hours are only M-F 8:30-4:45 at all locations. Doesn't bode well for someone who wants to show up and ride on Saturday or Sunday, you'd have to make a special trip to the Commonwealth during business hours. Lame.

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  3. #53
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    The difference in cost is not so clear. NH, no sales tax, MA 6%. So a new 10k bike costs 640 to reg that first time...
    correct. not cheap... but most of the guys i see complaining about the ORV reg tax wear all the latest, high-dollar gear with fresh plastics and graphics on multiple bikes. it's just like our friends that cry broke but have garage fridges full of beer and cartons of cigarettes on hand. the good 'ol pay to play thing. pick your activlity.

    i'm not directing this at you, Paul. general statement. and i certainly don't like getting taxed out the ass for everything i do... but i think that is a different thread. there is lower hanging fruit regarding OHVs.

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  4. #54
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    #draintheswamp
    that's hilarious. swamp looks like it's fillin' UP to me...

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  5. #55
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    It looks like the biggest obstacle for out of staters is going to be actually getting to the DEP office. Hours are only M-F 8:30-4:45 at all locations. Doesn't bode well for someone who wants to show up and ride on Saturday or Sunday, you'd have to make a special trip to the Commonwealth during business hours. Lame.
    i read some notes on this from the OHV Advisory meetings... it's been raised as an issue. there was mention of expanding to RMV locations. haven't found more meeting notes on this yet.

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  6. #56
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    The law is the law thing cracks me up. MA has proven over and over again they could give two shits about the "law". They do what they want, when they want and there is no consequence.

    Anybody who thinks this is about anything other than money is delusional.

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  7. #57
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Best thing anyone could do to combat this stuff would be to set up a highly visible voter registration booth at every race, with info on who votes for this crap.

    Because dirt bikers represent such a small percentage of any one politicians constituents, trying to pressure pols directly on this issue has as much chance of being effective as throwing a wiffle ball to the moon, IMO. Into the wind. At least 75% of people I know who ride dirt bikes don't vote...yet

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    Last edited by Imbeek; 05-05-17 at 10:20 AM.

  8. #58
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    correct. not cheap... but most of the guys i see complaining about the ORV reg tax wear all the latest, high-dollar gear with fresh plastics and graphics on multiple bikes. it's just like our friends that cry broke but have garage fridges full of beer and cartons of cigarettes on hand. the good 'ol pay to play thing. pick your activlity.
    Judge each mans vices all you like. But I see a huge difference between forking over $ for gear, graphics or beer vs forking over $ that sure seems to directly finance the harassment. It's easy how this is seen as a new fee with no feedback into the sport itself. Is it really "pay to play"??

    From our own ranks:
    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Was there ever an expectation that 'aide' would be spent at a private facility?
    If they extort a fee.. shouldn't there be some return?

    No, this is a pay-to-not-even-play scheme. Its pay to comply. It's absurd. Where the state gets off charging fees to ride on private property is beyond me. The idea that I couldn't buy my kid a PW50 and follow him around the yard without permits is gross. WTF people. You've lost sight of reality.
    The "we don't need warrants, as has been suggested" attitude is icing on that cake. Above the law. No regard for individuals. Just awful.

    I can't help but walk away from this thinking that MA wants to curtail riding, plain and simple. Call it FUD, but I will disagree.

    The parallels to sport shooting are obvious. What a drag.

    Paul is right; fun is going to be illegal soon. It's for the children!

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    At least 75% of people I know who ride dirt bikes don't vote...yet
    I'll never understand that either. Short sighted and lazy. Vote.

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  9. #59
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    this is not...
    I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when reading some of the posts on FB. My favorite were the many posts that said this was "taxation without representation", which left me genuinely speechless.

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  10. #60
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Judge each mans vices all you like. But I see a huge difference between forking over $ for gear, graphics or beer vs forking over $ that sure seems to directly finance the harassment. It's easy how this is seen as a new fee with no feedback into the sport itself. Is it really "pay to play"??
    that was directed at people who cry "broke" when the fees to ride come up and also just immediately assume all funds gathered go into some liberals pocket. dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    From our own ranks:

    If they extort a fee.. shouldn't there be some return?

    No, this is a pay-to-not-even-play scheme. Its pay to comply. It's absurd. Where the state gets off charging fees to ride on private property is beyond me. The idea that I couldn't buy my kid a PW50 and follow him around the yard without permits is gross. WTF people. You've lost sight of reality.
    The "we don't need warrants, as has been suggested" attitude is icing on that cake. Above the law. No regard for individuals. Just awful.

    I can't help but walk away from this thinking that MA wants to curtail riding, plain and simple. Call it FUD, but I will disagree.

    The parallels to sport shooting are obvious. What a drag.

    Paul is right; fun is going to be illegal soon. It's for the children!

    I'll never understand that either. Short sighted and lazy. Vote.
    fair points. i guess i'm saying compliance with current laws is important while we push to change those laws for the better. straight up bitching doesn't do shit. what it does do is end us where we are right now... with no organized effort.

    i agree there needs to be transparency into how much is being collected via registration and tax and where those funds are going. that's my next misson.

    on the fun being illegal, glad i'm not at that stage yet. i have quite a bit of fun on my dirt bike and my kid on his, the second one to follow soon. a lot has changed since i was a kid, and a lot also hasn't changed. NO ONE likes dirt bikes. it's a fact that will never die. sooooo, be smart about it and seek wins where possible.

    i honestly don't see all of this as a master plan to curtail riding. i see it as misdirected law attempting to lessen child ATV accidents and somehow educate them on proper and safe techniques. who doesn't want that? they just went too far too fast. read the Star Tribune article on Sean's Law. there was some sneaky actions to push that through at a faster rate because a child died. my parents signed waivers for me when i was a kid that i MIGHT DIE at the event... they wouldn't have sued the track had i had an accident. different times now. talk about money hungry, it's not just government.

    back on the fees and not getting anything in return... how about when you reg your OHV in MA not only do you get a sticker to ride legally but your VIN gets recorded AND you recieve a simple stick on tag that can locate your bike if stolen. imagine that kind of system in place? dreaming, a little. is it a quick and simple idea to feed the conversation, yes. i think so.

    on the voting dirt bike youth ... heh ... "Trumps gonna kill the EPA then we can ride anywhere we want." yup. just like that.. .

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  11. #61
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Is there some sort of exemption that groups can apply for to cover a special event. Ie if I go to a NETRA event in Freetown and ride without a sticker, am I in violation? Or am I covered by some sort of special use permit that NETRA applied for?
    "the director may exempt a participant of a sanctioned race, rally or event who is not a resident of the commonwealth" Source

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    lol, mad at the state for charging you a tax to use your ohv, then getting nothing in return, and possibly watching the tax money disappear into non-ohv use? gov't grab for money? you sure California didn't take over MA?
    Again, the money cannot be put in to the general fund. It must stay in the Off road fund. And the law leaves the door open to using it to buy and maintain land.
    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I agree. Gray areas are usually pretty bad. Especially when LEOs start enforcing their interpretations out of the blue. (Looks like these laws were passed in 2010. Why the enforcement now?!)
    It really isn't out of the blue. This has all been stirred up in the past. I want to say this exact scenario played out a year ago. I don't like the requirement, but I equally dislike the misinformation spreading about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Just like the speed limits on I495.
    Eh, that's a funny example. Read the Federal guidelines for how speed limits are supposed to work and how we do it at the state level becomes a little less valid.

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  12. #62
    Lifer
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    From our own ranks:

    If they extort a fee.. shouldn't there be some return?

    No, this is a pay-to-not-even-play scheme. Its pay to comply. It's absurd. Where the state gets off charging fees to ride on private property is beyond me. The idea that I couldn't buy my kid a PW50 and follow him around the yard without permits is gross. WTF people. You've lost sight of reality.

    I'll never understand that either. Short sighted and lazy. Vote.
    Sticker for private land is absurd, in case my stance is unclear. But we need to keep rational and factual. It's unfair to say there is no return if there is and has been legal places to ride. If you want to make that argument, you need the data on how much money is coming in and where it went. What happens if you find out most of it was spent on trail maintenance?

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  13. #63
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    who doesn't want that? they just went too far too fast.
    I guess I don't want that. I don't want my government to tell me how to protect my kids. Yes, that's on me.

    I agree they went too far. I disagree they went too far too fast. There will never be an acceptable time for this level of overstep. Not in my mind.

    Leave private property use alone. No, I don't care if I get a sticker or my VIN recorded. I can write down my VIN myself. Stickers unpeel. Where's the win here? I'm paying for what again?! No, I will not submit for verification that I'm not a thief. I will not presume guilt and attempt to prove innocence, then pay for the experience.

    And wtf does any of this have to do with a kid getting crushed by an ATV anyway? Licensing bikes running at an MX event prevents that how?

    Anyway. That's my $0.02. Enough from me.

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  14. #64
    Lifer
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    And wtf does any of this have to do with a kid getting crushed by an ATV anyway? Licensing bikes running at an MX event prevents that how?
    Because it pays for enforcement officers to enforce new laws protecting those children. I believe for safety courses as well, though I haven't looked to see if they charge money for those. Again, not saying I like the idea - but it isn't totally disconnected.

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  15. #65
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    If I were actively using state lands, I would happily pay the fee. But I'm not, and my bike is plated, and they are telling me I can't ride it on private property. The double reg is as absurd as the reg for private property. For me it's not the 40 dollars. The sales tax is a grey area for me. If it's not a licensed vehicle, the sales tax should be built in on new purchases, and not required for used.

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  16. #66
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Eh, that's a funny example. Read the Federal guidelines for how speed limits are supposed to work and how we do it at the state level becomes a little less valid.
    Point is law enforcement subjectively enforces "the law" all the time. "Just doing my job" falls down here. Enforcement of our laws has never been uniform. Probably because even LEOs admit that some of our laws are dumb.. like this one. (Aka what Smutty said!)


    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    It's unfair to say there is no return if there is and has been legal places to ride. If you want to make that argument, you need the data on how much money is coming in and where it went. What happens if you find out most of it was spent on trail maintenance?
    And I'll reiterate that I'm all for registration fees to use public land/resources. I'm all for that. I gladly pay the fee for my NH reg.

    The private property is where I draw the line. To be clear. MXers running at private tracks should not be charged as they are not using public land. I think it's exactly that simple.

    I'm also in favor of bulk, one day licensing exemptions for special events. Like what NETRA gets for the classic dirt ride out of Loudon every year.

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  17. #67
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    safety course seems to be a two part process... online course for $29.95 then in-person course in Foxboro, Plymouth or Oxford. no fee. it also looks like MA isn't the only state that does this. still in reading mode but NETRA came up with an idea for the safety courses that i think went over really well so there might be options on this to get certified if under 18.

    totally agree on the private land and closed-course event comments, it's bullshit ... and THAT is where i think progress SHOULD/could have been made years ago.

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  18. #68
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Is the law only applied to off road vehicles being ridden in MA, or just simply existing?

    I don't ride mine in MA.

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  19. #69
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Is the law only applied to off road vehicles being ridden in MA, or just simply existing?

    I don't ride mine in MA.
    "No person shall operate a snow vehicle or recreation vehicle unless the vehicle has been registered in accordance with (..)" Source and ''Operate'', to ride in or on and control the operation of a snow vehicle or a recreation vehicle." Source2

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  20. #70
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I guess I don't want that. I don't want my government to tell me how to protect my kids. Yes, that's on me.
    smarter riders on trail and track are important to me. yes, it gets tricky when only talking about private property. i don't agree with any of that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Is the law only applied to off road vehicles being ridden in MA, or just simply existing?

    I don't ride mine in MA.
    ridden/operated in MA. if a bike is registred for road use, an OHV reg/sticker is needed once that bike leaves a public way and is used for recreation at an OHV designated area.

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  21. #71
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    i know Mark said the same thing and so are others but i dont get it. Massachusetts has ~20 legal places to ride for pretty short cash in the long run. most, if not all, are maintained pretty damn well from what i've seen. forests grow fast, tracks get sacked out, maintenance is constant.

    totally agree with whoever said it earlier, i don't see what the big deal is ... BUT i certainly know the laws need revision. it's too general and went beyond the initial intent to keep kids educated and safe. hey, parents, how about fucking parenting for a while! accidents happen, kids die, you shouldn't strangle an entire state over that. maybe now that some time has passed, we can get things moving back in our direction. the sport is growing in MA.
    For me, it's more about time and hassle vs the money. I'd have no problem riding in NH and Maine where I can simply stop and buy my reg sticker that morning. Out of state should be exempt from sales tax, period.

    My mind set as of 10 years ago, was to buy land and always have my own place to ride.. no BS. Even now owning 150+ acres of land, I still struggle to find time to ride.

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  22. #72
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    smarter riders on trail and track are important to me.
    Do you support mandatory (re)education for this?
    Should you and I be required to pay for and take a safety course to woods ride now?
    Do you legitimately believe any kind of mandatory "safety" training will have any real impact on idiots being idiots on our trails???

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  23. #73
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    Is the law only applied to off road vehicles being ridden in MA, or just simply existing?

    I don't ride mine in MA.
    Fire it up on your property to load it in your truck and boom. Why u no pay tax? DEP mad.

    But hey, they're only following the law......

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  24. #74
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    My biggest issue with all of this, I am off road reg'd in MA already, is that there are claims about areas to ride being available throughout the state and that is pretty far from the truth. In the NE area of the state there are no state approved riding areas. Having to drive hours to get to one of the few legal riding areas is lousy. If I could see that the state was actually using the funds to open and operate riding areas then I would be a little happier than I am now. Typically riding areas are trying to be closed down to motorcycles and ATVs by other use groups that don't contribute a dime towards the trail maintenance. Hikers, horse back riders, mountain bikers etc. all look at OHRV as the devil and somehow get the gov't to agree with them and close the trails even though a good portion of the trails these groups use to do their activities were established long ago by OHRV use.

    For Clayton's question about use/possession, though as explained it is only for actual riding on any property in MA, if a fish and game officer saw you ride it from where you unloaded from your truck into your garage you would be in violation.

    Basically if you own a motorcycle/vehicle that isn't street registered in MA it theoretically needs to be OHRV registered to be able to legally use it in the state of MA. For instance if they wanted to get technical and start enforcing things all these track day only bikes that were purchased and the sales tax never paid would need to be OHRV reg'd in order to be ridden at Palmer.

    I am not a political activist in any way shape or form but I hope that someone can get a group together to address these issues before, as others have said, we are unable to use our toys in any way shape or form.

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  25. #75
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: MA OHV Laws - 2017 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Do you support mandatory (re)education for this?
    Should you and I be required to pay for and take a safety course to woods ride now?
    Do you legitimately believe any kind of mandatory "safety" training will have any real impact on idiots being idiots on our trails???
    depends, have i ridden with you yet? (joke, simmah)

    interesting questions on re-ed but this is about 18 and younger, groom the up and comers correctly and move forward. will there still be idiots, yes. we as older and safer riders can help, we do it all the time on this very site and on rides (road or dirt). i think the information and guideance is valuble.

    there is training for almost everything we do, what's so bad about requiring some safety training for an extremely dangerous sport? IF you plan to ride OHV designated areas and the courses are concise and fun to boot, i see no harm. if everyone has a 'fuck you' attitude the chaos will kill the sport for good. again, not talking about Johnny Fast who only rides on his farm. could care less.

    both my kids will take the courses. big deal. i'm teaching them that this is dangerous and we need to be smart. that's planting seeds. if i tell them it's a bunch of shit the liberals put in place to squash my rights and steal our hard earned cash, they're not growing.

    none of this training was required when i grew up, but i sought it out on my own. training vids, magazines, joined local off-road club, followed rules, etc. i really don't see it as much different. and i fucking hate authority. guess i just choose my battles. dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by e30addict View Post
    Fire it up on your property to load it in your truck and boom. Why u no pay tax? DEP mad.

    But hey, they're only following the law......
    come on. that scenario is not going to happen.

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