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how mad should i be?

  1. #1
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    how mad should i be?


    back story:
    so this winter/spring i spent a fair amount of money on my dirtbike (03 KTM 300EXC). probably more than i shouldve and certainly more than i paid for the bike. i replaced stuff that was worn out, damaged or just upgrading things. This project was prompted by the fact that i broke a ring last summer and the motor needed a top end as a result. so since i have no history on the bike i decided i would do the bottom end as well and start anew. i was originally going to do the job myself but after talking with the shop, they convinced me to bring it to them because the crank would need to be pressed apart/assembled, shims, blah blah blah. i decided, that i would just pay the experts. in hind sight, i couldve done it myself. especially since i had to go get the crank from them and bring it to a machine shop to have the new rod installed and bring it back to them. i will admit the shop was good to me, they allowed me to purchase parts at my work for cost and bring them in for them to install, but they charged me a couple hundred more than they originally quoted me for the job with no explanation why.
    got the motor in the bike in time for the dirt classic. bike ran great, no issues. took the bike to clough a few weeks ago and bike ran ok. didnt start on the first kick like it did all day at the classic and seemed to keep loading up on fuel. at this point im chalking it up to a fueling issue/adjustment.
    i go out into the garage the other day and notice a small puddle under the bike. its oil. i pull the bike out and look to see that it appears to be coming from the countershaft seal. obviously that was replaced during rebuild. a few days later and the puddle has tripled in size and now theres a second puddle back by the rear tire. the oil is running down the chain and the swing arm and dripping down from the rear sprocket/chain guide. the engine has 8 hours on it and a new seal is already leaking. i am aware that those seals are pretty common, as i had replaced it once before the rebuild. i didnt expect it to fail this soon though. i called the shop and they said to bring it down and drop it off and they would fix it in a few days. they apparently dont make appointments so i cant schedule a time to haul it down there, wait, and then haul it home. its mostly just an inconvenience. i am tempted to just buy another seal and replace it myself, but then i think i shouldnt have to do either.

    TL;DR
    paid a shop to rebuild dirt bike motor. 8 (engine) hours later and a seal is leaking. should i be mad and give them the chance to fix it or just fix it myself and rely on them for KTM parts only and move on?

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  2. #2
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    TL;DR
    paid a shop to rebuild dirt bike motor. 8 (engine) hours later and a seal is leaking. should i be mad and give them the chance to fix it or just fix it myself and rely on them for KTM parts only and move on?
    I think it's too early to decide. If they handle it well, i.e. they warranty the work for free (or maybe the cost of the seal), then I don't think you should be mad. Disappointed, sure, but not mad.

    On the other hand, if they tell you it's not their fault & you should go pound sad, I think madness might be an appropriate response.

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    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    thats kind of where im at now. what sucks is they are 40-45 from me. i work 6 days a week so i only have 1 day i can bring it down/ pick it up. maybe im more agitated that i cant make an appointment for me to go down on my day off, wait and hour or so, and then leave with the bike vs. drop it off and then not be able to pick it up until the following week.

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  4. #4

    Re: how mad should i be?

    Eh, I am always a little sketched out about cranks and 2 stroke internals after the RM125 fiasco

    So many things can go wrong during a bottom end rebuild...so if it's truly *just* a crank seal then let them fix it and move on with life

    Any idea why the crank seal is leaking?

    iIRC it's just a rubber circular thing that has an interference fit...unless it was smashed into place/deformed, defective part, or the cases are mucked it shouldn't normally leak

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    Lifer union's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Countershaft seals on KTMs are notorious for leaking. Don't know how many PK has put on his 125. New one goes on and it might last one ride before leaking again. Sometimes not even that long. I don't think I would be too upset about it especially if they fix it. Same thing will probably happen again. Get some extra seals.

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    PK went so far as to make a custom tool JUST for counter shaft seal installs.

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    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    The seal is like $5-7. It's not even a one beer job. Just make it happen.

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  8. #8

    Re: how mad should i be?

    Quote Originally Posted by union View Post
    New one goes on and it might last one ride before leaking again. Sometimes not even that long.


    One seal per ride?!?

    Would an OEM or aftermarket seal work any better?

    Man that is too much maintenance imho

    @OP - is it stator side at least?

    Maybe bring it to PK to see if his tool will seat it "more properly"?

    Edit: Google said to also check your crank bearings for play. Grab the flywheel and shake it...if it's floppy then the bearing is causing the seal to fail. Seeing how this is a rebuild, I would hope the bearings are in good shape. If they're not, then yes...piss away.

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 07-16-17 at 02:22 PM.
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    Expert Agitator GearHd6's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    They're saying countershaft seal, meaning behind the front sprocket, not crankshaft seal.

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  10. #10
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    ...so if it's truly *just* a crank seal then let them fix it and move on with life

    Any idea why the crank seal is leaking?
    its the countershaft seal. behind the front sprocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by union View Post
    Countershaft seals on KTMs are notorious for leaking. Don't know how many PK has put on his 125. New one goes on and it might last one ride before leaking again. Sometimes not even that long. I don't think I would be too upset about it especially if they fix it. Same thing will probably happen again. Get some extra seals.
    yeah, i kinda knew that. i just didnt expect it so soon. the last one started leaking shortly after replacement but i installed it cockeyed so i attributed it to that. good to know that its even more common place than i thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    PK went so far as to make a custom tool JUST for counter shaft seal installs.
    i may need one then lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    The seal is like $5-7. It's not even a one beer job. Just make it happen.
    thats where im leaning. doing it myself is far less of an annoyance.

    Quote Originally Posted by GearHd6 View Post
    They're saying countershaft seal, meaning behind the front sprocket, not crankshaft seal.
    correct

    im thinking im just gonna rotate the rear wheel a little so the leak will lube the other half of the chain for me

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    Last edited by SVRACER01; 07-16-17 at 02:46 PM.
    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
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  11. #11

    Re: how mad should i be?

    Oh phew...brain fart

    Ya then definitely don't be mad...like a date that doesn't put out, just DIY and move on

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 07-16-17 at 03:19 PM.
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  12. #12
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    If it's anything like the 200, All-Balls makes a kit with both new seals and a new spacer. They are know weak points on these bikes.

    Did the kit in mine. No puddles yet.....but also haven't ridden it either.

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  13. #13
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Motorbikes plus all but forces you to buy the seal and spacer together. They have a gazillion seals and spacers in stock. I've had no problem getting replacement seals quick. As Chipper says, easy job. Sprocket isn't even bolted on, just a snap ring. Just do it and be done. I would not be angry. These things are consumable.

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  14. #14
    Rookie Rada's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Now.. Why does it start harder?

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  15. #15
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rada View Post
    Now.. Why does it start harder?
    Thats the next question. Like i said, i believe it to be a fuelling issue. Even during the road sections at the dirt classic it ran erratically. I figured it just didnt like the long hauls. But when it started loading up even in the slow stuff i started to think she might be a bit rich. I suck with carbs. Both food and mechanical

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    Rookie Rada's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    If your engine guy equally sucks at seals. Then you may have issues with the right crank seal. One thing to keep in mind is that fixed jet carbs don't just go out of adjustment.


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    Last edited by Rada; 07-18-17 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Spellin

  17. #17
    Burns retinas nhbubba's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Ktm "book" jetting has been spot on for me on my 200.

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  18. #18
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    So, if one is concerned, how does one check crank seal integrity beyond bare eyeballing?

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  19. #19
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Keep an eye on your tranny oil levels, and spooge. If the crankshaft seal is bad, it will siphon gearbox oil and it'll run extra fat.

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  20. #20
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Keep an eye on your tranny oil levels, and spooge. If the crankshaft seal is bad, it will siphon gearbox oil and it'll run extra fat.
    its gonna be hard to tell if the gearbox is low because of a crank seal if the CS seal is already leaking. im not noticing any spooge out the silencer, but im not really looking for it either. i do notice oil on the cylinder around where the expansion chamber mounts. i was thinking it may be from weak springs though.

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  21. #21
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    i have also discovered that my CDI box is crushed due to an AWOL steering stop. im gonna have to fix it and relocate it.

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  22. #22
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    i do notice oil on the cylinder around where the expansion chamber mounts. i was thinking it may be from weak springs though.
    replacing the pipe o-rings with quality Viton o-rings and new springs should cure that unless the pipe is tweaked too much. don't use the cheap FMF red o-rings, they wear VERY fast, my new set lost seal in a few rides. i now have KTM Viton rings on, which also cured some vibration. consensus says they are way more durable.

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  23. #23
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    replacing the pipe o-rings with quality Viton o-rings and new springs should cure that unless the pipe is tweaked too much. don't use the cheap FMF red o-rings, they wear VERY fast, my new set lost seal in a few rides. i now have KTM Viton rings on, which also cured some vibration. consensus says they are way more durable.
    i saw those on the micofiche. TBH, there wasnt one on when i disassembled it so it went together without it as well. i just didnt know it was supposed to be there. the pipe is new. what are the chances that poor seal is causing my running concerns?

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  24. #24
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    C'mon dude... it's just a seal. It's not like they pissed down the side of your new truck

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  25. #25
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: how mad should i be?

    Ya i mean its not like they dropped chocolate ice cream inside my new car

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