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Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

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    suburban ghetto living... black's Avatar
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    Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Sooooooo figured I'd do a little review if anyone is thinking about doing it . I might be after I get more saddle time. Met Flipped r6 who is on this site occasionally, and lives like a mile from me
    Lots of people from brooklyn, NY ( who dirtbikes in brooklyn?)
    Shane is a wee bit of a man but tough as iron
    It was hot.


    So it went on fri and sat... first thing treat it like a track day EZ Up plenty of fluids, spares, extra gas, seats etc.....
    I was one of the few with an ez- up and I was king for 2 days people trying to get shade under the canopy. Met some good folk, which leads me to my next point. Spares.I dumped it in one of the drills, spectacular rookie type dump. Busted my clutch lever. I had no spares but some one an xr400r did and someone else had a spare bolt.. Voila back on the ride.

    The skill sets were wide across here. 10 yos who were 1 and 2 in MA for motocross? Me a beginner on an xr250r, People who raced and did hare scrambles. Almost too wide a skill set it was like lumping A, B, and C groups in a track day.

    First day was drills on rear/ front brake seeing the limits, locking them up, doing endos. Then drills on accelleration and braking then it culminated on a drill with ovals down the straight , stomp rear brake skid the rear around the pylon then take off again. Lots of fun but some minor wrecks of people stalling in the corner( beginners) then someone( more experienced people) trying to stuff them at the same time in the corner. no serious injuries just bruises rash etc

    We did a small course thru the woods in the morn after lunch then at end of day each day. That humbled me and I dropped quite a few times( I sweat like a ny dock worker and my goggles fogged up so bad). Riding that dirbike and feeling the rear brake and shifter in dirtboots was so different than street riding. As a matter of fact Shane told us( all of us) to not even bother with the shifter 90% of the time just bang thru the gears.?!?!? it worked but im not sure of that. He also doens't like auto clutches and bark busters

    That night was blessed sleep as I headed home to AC and a soft bed. Some poeple who showed up in RVs headed home as well ( this was the family that showed up in a luxury RV with trailer and 4 brand new KTMS300's? and their own pressure washer to clean up at end of day.... we all have hobbies right?)
    The day was hot, really hot so hydrating was key and people were tired. Next day I forgot my hydration bladder at home and I paid, cramping up after 11am thru the woods and thusly crashing thru a section I just wanted to get thru while fighting off leg cramps. As a matter of fact during both daysI was also tired and jsut liek a track day would stop during drills just to get mentally refocused.

    But next day was easier not so much physical drills, Lets says I was only 8/10 tired vs the other day I was 10/10 tired.

    The drills 2nd day consisted "grinding" logs where you had front wheels on one side, the rear the other and you countersteered and throttled so thay you grinded down the log. Supposed to emulate stopping on a hill and ruts
    Other drill was Shane made half moon ruts about 16' diameter and we entered in speed and leaned into the turn and exited on speed, this where the grinding practice helped because the front would sometimes jump the berm and you needed the rear to stay in the rut to get out.
    Lastly we did some dirt track walks where he showed us some better lines and some wheelie drills. Somehow he made it thru trees that were too narrow for his biek and he did it with speed where 95% of the people just hit the trees and stopped.

    At end of 2nd day my last run thru the track everything slowed down and I had a decent little run where I knew how to deal with most of the obstacles


    Good.... lots of drills that broke down key skills
    No one said it sucked, everyone was pretty eye opening on how the skills could translate into everyday riding.

    Bad
    Wide range of exp - 1 guy rode his crf450l? up from Brooklyn and toasted the clutch the first hour. He got to ride Shanes bike both days though. He had only been riding 4 months on street.
    Little crowded, maybe some more instructors like American speed camp.
    I crashed, broke a clutch lever, but thankfully the bark busters which could have saved my clutch were never installed the night before and were safe in their packaging in my truck

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    hmmmm......

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    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Bark busters are absolutely essential if you're going to ride in the woods.
    Auto clutches....meh. Nice to have, not essential. I have one waiting to go back in my bike. Waiting for almost a year now.

    Shane is the man. I sort of aspire to be him when I grow up, minus all the traveling and zaniness.
    People always seem to get a ton out of his school at any skill level.


    You ready for some real woodsy exploits now?

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Yeah, I'm surprised he wouldn't like bark busters for New England woods. Especially for those (all) of us without his skills. Did he mention why he doesn't like them?

    I did injure my hand once due to bark busters, back in the day...freak incident, endo'd the bike and my hand was caught between the bark buster and handlebar. I still use them for woods though, the cycra "pro bend" makes an incident like mine less likely, and while my incident was a hard-to-repeat deal, smashing my knuckles and levers would be almost a certainty in tight woods without them.

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    Lifer
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Hell, I want bark busters (or hand guards) on my street bikes.

    Sounds like you had fun. Look forward to riding woods with you someday. Let you show me how its done.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Interesting review. Did you meet a guy named Adam with a klx250? I think he was there.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Yeah..I met Adam we grabbed dinner together. Great guy.... most liberal guy on most liberal street in most liberal town in most liberal state in the union he describes himself.. and a beekeeper to 30 hives.

    Define interesting review?

    I need 1 ride with a buddy before i feel comfortable that A) i know what the hell i'm doing and wont require babysitting riding with any of you guys.

    Barkbusters are going on this week along with a new clutch lever( the replacement someone gave me was a broken one)
    Adjust brake lever lower its sits pretty high compared to the right footpeg
    and replace clutch cable( it frayed during the lever replacement)

    Shane didnt like busters as he put it, and i understand- the busters make it wider when you need to needle and angle your bars thru tight trees. The foldable ones allow more squiggle room

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    Last edited by black; 07-13-15 at 12:12 PM.
    hmmmm......

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Hahaa, Yeah that's Adam! Formerly known as Pariah on this board for obvious reasons. lol.

    Interesting that they didn't separate levels at all and that you felt they may have been understaffed. I want to do the program. I'm not a woods guy, more mx, but definitely comfortable on dirt and fit enough to push hard for the class.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    MX guys definitely got stuff out of it. namely clutch control/ brake/ throttel control.
    I pushed I crashed. I pushed slow I crashed. I rested... i crashed.. it was fun. i learned

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    hmmmm......

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Hahaa, Yeah that's Adam! Formerly known as Pariah on this board for obvious reasons. lol.

    Interesting that they didn't separate levels at all and that you felt they may have been understaffed. I want to do the program. I'm not a woods guy, more mx, but definitely comfortable on dirt and fit enough to push hard for the class.
    They seperated but it was more an after thought and only on some drills. for example the half moon ruts we ran at speed, it was a mix with fast guys on slow guys asses. Same with the pylons.The exit point of the rut drills were right next to each other like 2 feet apart. Considering it was a drill and people were learning and overshooting the exit part of the rut at speed, there were some close calls. Space them a bit farther out is my suggestion. But then again I didnt dig them, Shane did.

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    hmmmm......

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    thanks for the writeup, i would also like to do this program some day. great that you had Shane teaching!

    +1 to bark busters. i've gone over the bars and gotten hurt as well but there is no way i'd ride NE woods without them. yes, they protect your fingers from getting smashed but they also save the bike quite a bit when you chuck it to the ground AFTER smacking that tree.

    i'm sure we'll see you down at HVD soon

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Hey guys. Pariah here.

    I was at the camp too. I felt it was good and that it improved my riding. It was really, really hot. It was also a sea of KTM 2 strokes with race numbers. The whole thing was pretty intense. I was sooo tired from picking up my bike by the end of the weekend that I felt the final hours of the camp were wasted and probably dangerous. In the end I elected to stop riding. At one point we were doing what amounted to, basically, flat track racing in a field. The heat, the noise and the intense smell of 2 stroke smoke was just too much. Sliding the bike around just felt like I was going to run someone over. Exhausted isn't a great way to ride fast in close quarters.

    Having taught MSF for years I feel the instructor to student ratio was way too high. One instructor for 25 students with a wide range of ability is just not enough. Also, the class seemed a lot more like a motocross school than an enduro or dual sport class. For me, really, I am not railing ruts and racing from corner to corner. What I really need is to be able to get through rocky sections with less effort. There was some attention paid to that, but for plain old New England woods riding I would say it isn't too applicable.

    All that said, Shane Watts know what he's doing. I'd probably go back and try and be better prepared and in better shape. I will practice what I learned there. That school is probably best described as intermediate and up. The people that get the most out of it would be capable of racing off road, at least in a beginner class and also, you should really have a race bike, not a plated dual sport. You can do it, but it makes it a lot harder. I fried my clutch too. An extra 60 lbs is a lot when you're picking it up for the 25th time.

    There isn't a lot of options in off road instruction. At this point I am not into track days, street riding has lost much if its charms. For me it's more moto giro stuff and dual sports. So, when Shane Watts comes around again I may well sign up. You will learn something, but it will not be easy.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    Considering it was a drill and people were learning and overshooting the exit part of the rut at speed, there were some close calls.
    This was a common problem. There was also a power slide exercise where everyone was running counter clockwise. The circles were pretty close and it would have been very easy to have had a head on collision. Nothing happened but it easily could have.

    That said, this is coming from an ex MSF instructor and that is a program that is super risk averse. Still, it just felt a little crazy at times.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Nice, thanks for the added input Adam. Sign me up! Sounds perfect for me. I was afraid it would be too woodsy. FWIW, I bet you WILL find it easier to get through obstacles and rocky sections after this practice. When you carry more speed, the obstacles change in nature dramatically.

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    Last edited by Paul_E_D; 07-13-15 at 07:36 PM.
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    When you carry more speed, the obstacles change in nature dramatically.
    I bought my first dirt bike with paper route money. My friend Mike used to say, "when in doubt, gas it out!". So, I know about this.

    I did the New England Classic ride up in New Hampshire. It was really super hard for me. 100 miles of rocks and roots it seemed like each day for two days. Near the end of day one I followed a dramatically faster rider than me into what was an impossible section. I was going so fast I couldn't brake at all and just shot over the top of everything. It was eye opening.

    The New England Classic was basically 8 hours a day of saying over and over inside my helmet "this will be OK with more throttle".

    I do use momentum to clear things, for sure. It's not like I am dawdling around out there, but I am a dual sport rider, not a racer and have a pretty low tolerance for serous injury.

    I'm probably not going to power slide into a trail junction with Ken and then roost over a bunch of rocks and ride off wheeling into the woods. I like my collarbones just how they are.

    Shane said that he teaches all over the country, so the techniques are probably quite applicable in the rest of the country where there's not roots growing over every rock. The school is worth it, you can get a lot out of it, but it's best to understand what it is.

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    Last edited by taxonomy; 07-13-15 at 07:54 PM.
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by taxonomy View Post
    I bought my first dirt bike with paper route money. My friend Mike used to say, "when in doubt, gas it out!". So, I know about this.

    I did the New England Classic ride up in New Hampshire. It was really super hard for me. 100 miles of rocks and roots it seemed like each day for two days. Near the end of day one I followed a dramatically faster rider than me into what was an impossible section. I was going so fast I couldn't brake at all and just shot over the top of everything. It was eye opening.

    The New England Classic was basically 8 hours a day of saying over and over inside my helmet "this will be OK with more throttle".

    I do use momentum to clear things, for sure. It's not like I am dawdling around out there, but I am a dual sport rider, not a racer and have a pretty low tolerance for serous injury.

    I'm probably not going to power slide into a trail junction with Ken and then roost over a bunch of rocks and ride off wheeling into the woods. I like my collarbones just how they are.

    Shane said that he teaches all over the country, so the techniques are probably quite applicable in the rest of the country where there's not roots growing over every rock.
    Then you may not need a class. Going slowly over them never gets easier! No, I hear you. will be curious to hear your thoughts after you get out there again post Shane.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    sweet!

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    Lifer
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by taxonomy View Post
    I like my collarbones just how they are.
    I know exactly what you're talking about.

    What were you riding?

    I wanted to do the NE classic chairity ride last year. I was packed up and ready to go when I got insanely sick, flu symptoms, all that. Bill G (posts here) ran it. He told me that I'd never have made it on my DRZ. After running it on my KTM 200 this year, I agree. A better rider, sure, but not me. A heavy dual sport just compounds any deficiencies you have as a rider. Every time you choose a poor line over an obstacle. Every time you tip over and have to lift the bike again. Every time you stall it and lose all momentum. It just drains the hell out of you.

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  18. #18

    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    are you trying to convince him to get another bike?

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 07-13-15 at 08:50 PM.
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I know exactly what you're talking about.

    What were you riding?

    I wanted to do the NE classic chairity ride last year. I was packed up and ready to go when I got insanely sick, flu symptoms, all that. Bill G (posts here) ran it. He told me that I'd never have made it on my DRZ. After running it on my KTM 200 this year, I agree. A better rider, sure, but not me. A heavy dual sport just compounds any deficiencies you have as a rider. Every time you choose a poor line over an obstacle. Every time you tip over and have to lift the bike again. Every time you stall it and lose all momentum. It just drains the hell out of you.

    I rode my KLX250s. It's somewhat modified, but not a $10,900 dirt bike. It was harder, no doubt.

    The Classic is no joke, that's for sure. It is hard, that's for sure. You can do it on a lesser bike but you'd have to work at it. It;s basically an untimed hundred mile long enduro, back to back with a second hundred mile long endoro.


    I am too not serious to ever own a KTM. I am never going to own a beer cozie with my bikes brand on it, nor a spare fuel tank with my bikes brand, or a towel. My prohibition of wearing any clothing branded with a motorcycle manufacturer name while on or near a motorcycle also limits the likelihood I will ever own a KTM. So, I will just have to hump along with my ugly duckling Kawasaki.

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    Lifer
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Ha. I didn't know the beer koozies was a requirement. I best get on that.

    Truth told, I just wanted a really nice enduro. Something with nice suspension and a well thought out chassis made of good components. I was tired of buying something that needed a couple $k worth of aftermarket upgrades out of the box. KTM happens to be the volume seller of such contraptions 'round here. Thus they are the easiest to find and buy used.

    At any rate. Your KLX is lighter than my KLX ('03 KLX400-SR, basically a Suzuki DRZ in Kawasaki drag). But not by a lot. Thus I think I feel your pain.

    I've ridden hop-ev a couple times on both bikes. It's pretty astonishing how much less effort it takes to run a lighter bike around that place than a heavier dual-sport. I can do 2x as much trail time with 1/2 the fatigue. It is pretty obvious, really. But I thought it was worth stating.

    Out of pure curiosity. What was Shane and his instructors riding? Moto-x 450's?

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    are you trying to convince him to get another bike?
    and what do you suggest, never too early too look and have a spare in the house..

    but I was happy with my xr , heavy yes.. I guess. But lifting it wasnt a giant pain for me. I was getting tired with using incorrect body position not using the throttle to move the bike and trying to muscle it around. A lighter bike wont make me go faster it will just let me get away with crappy body technique i think. But i liked the beer cozies and fox shoes and hats and shirts etc i saw.. me want

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    hmmmm......

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    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    LOL, this is going to get good. Just add Pariah to a thread for some excitement! I rationally WANT a dual sport bike, but I'm not willing to have 2 dirtbikes, so until further notice it will be cutting edge race bikes for me. I have a KX250F that has been a great bike to learn to go fast on. Now that I have reached a certain pace, I'm going to step back to a small bore KTM 2 stroke. Even the 250F is heavy in my eyes. I will never own a 450F I don't believe. Light is right.

    Now Adam, your KLX with the upgrades may be as good as it gets for your needs. The thing is heavy, but easy to ride, and has a much lower, more relaxed riding position. This allows it to perform very well for the average rider. height is the enemy of confidence in low speed tricky stuff. Look at a trials bike. Lowest center of gravity of any 2 wheeled machine. I'm willing to wager a lot of money that most recreational woods guys would get a lot faster if they lowered their bike 2 inches.

    There are T-shirt rules? Uh-oh.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Ha. I didn't know the beer koozies was a requirement. I best get on that.

    Truth told, I just wanted a really nice enduro. Something with nice suspension and a well thought out chassis made of good components. I was tired of buying something that needed a couple $k worth of aftermarket upgrades out of the box. KTM happens to be the volume seller of such contraptions 'round here. Thus they are the easiest to find and buy used.
    People own KTMs for a reason, they're super nice. Seriously, though, you need a beer Koozie. My dual sport is a dual sport, so it sees 18+ miles to the trails. I don't trailer. If I lived closer or trailered I'd probably have a KTM.


    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Ha

    At any rate. Your KLX is lighter than my KLX ('03 KLX400-SR, basically a Suzuki DRZ in Kawasaki drag). But not by a lot. Thus I think I feel your pain.

    I've ridden hop-ev a couple times on both bikes. It's pretty astonishing how much less effort it takes to run a lighter bike around that place than a heavier dual-sport. I can do 2x as much trail time with 1/2 the fatigue. It is pretty obvious, really. But I thought it was worth stating.

    Out of pure curiosity. What was Shane and his instructors riding? Moto-x 450's?
    Shane was the one and only instructor. He was riding a KTM 200 of some sort. It was a 2-stroke.

    Weight is a huge factor off road. I am not sure you can get a distance capable dual sport that weighs a lot less than the KLX.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    LOL, this is going to get good. Just add Pariah to a thread for some excitement! I rationally WANT a dual sport bike, but I'm not willing to have 2 dirtbikes, so until further notice it will be cutting edge race bikes for me. I have a KX250F that has been a great bike to learn to go fast on. Now that I have reached a certain pace, I'm going to step back to a small bore KTM 2 stroke. Even the 250F is heavy in my eyes. I will never own a 450F I don't believe. Light is right.
    It's true that light is right. I rode my CB-1 this morning. Nice bike. I've gotten to a point where I just don't care anymore about optimal performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Now Adam, your KLX with the upgrades may be as good as it gets for your needs. The thing is heavy, but easy to ride, and has a much lower, more relaxed riding position. This allows it to perform very well for the average rider. height is the enemy of confidence in low speed tricky stuff. Look at a trials bike. Lowest center of gravity of any 2 wheeled machine. I'm willing to wager a lot of money that most recreational woods guys would get a lot faster if they lowered their bike 2 inches.

    My KLX is different from Ken's KLX. Mine is basically a plated KLX300R. Ken's has a different frame ans suspension. I think I have an extra inch or two of travel but it's on the low side for real woods bikes. The engine is also very friendly. It's easy to ride. For me it's more about going more places than it is getting to them very fast. Sometimes I go "fast" for me, whatever that is. I am sure it's scary fast for some people and a dawdle for others.

    Mostly I wind up riding over lots of roots and rocks. The challenge for me is trying to do this clean, without putting a boot down. I also like to go far, in woods terms. Nothing is better than emerging from the woods 40 miles from home after a long challenging trail ride.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    There are T-shirt rules? Uh-oh.
    Yes, there are t-shirt rules. From what I have seen it's pretty much impossible to ride a motorcycle made by white people without owning several branded accessories. Beta, Husky, KTM, Harley, Ducati, whatever. If it was made by white people you need a t-shirt or beer Koozie.

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    Re: Shane Watts Dirtwise camp review

    Quote Originally Posted by taxonomy View Post
    Yes, there are t-shirt rules. From what I have seen it's pretty much impossible to ride a motorcycle made by white people without owning several branded accessories. Beta, Husky, KTM, Harley, Ducati, whatever. If it was made by white people you need a t-shirt or beer Koozie.
    I'm seriously slacking...

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