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Spend my money

  1. #1
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Spend my money


    I'm shopping for a new dirty toy. Since buying my current 2015 300XCW my off road riding has changed and I'd like something better suited to what I do now. Plus who doesn't want something new? I've been riding motocross more often than woods this year and I could see the split being close to 50/50 in the future. The xcw is great in the woods, but it bottoms out hard on jumps, and suffers in whoops. The obvious choice would be to go get the XC version, with linkage instead of PDS, of my bike and go ride. But, bikes had changed a lot from 2015 with fuel injection and counterbalanced everything.

    Must haves:
    be able to be plated
    headlight and tail light
    linkage suspension
    reliable proven chassis

    Would like:
    2 stroke 250
    Fuel injection

    That leaves me with 3 (kind of) choices: 250XC, Husqvarna 300tx (apparently they don't offer a 250 for 2020), beta 250 rr /rr race

    The husqvarna/ KTM are proven, the suspension is serviceable, the fuel injection works, and dealers/parts are around. I don't have any objections to being back onto KTM, but the Beta has piqued my interest. I'm worried that the 250RR is going to be very off road oriented like my current XCW, but I don't know for sure. The RR race has KYB forks, and old school mixed gas carb. I love the idea of the KYB for and am kinda indifferent about it missing the oil injection.

    My last option is picking up a pure MX bike and keeping my current KTM for off road duty. It's the cheapest, but I am at my motorcycle limit at home and I don't think another bike will fly.

    Who has ridden, reviewed, had obscure thoughts on, or any valuable or useless opinion on this subject? I want to hear it.


    Side note, does anyone want to buy a 300XCW?

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  2. #2
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    In theory the AER forks on the KTM XC / Husky TX should be more 'flexible' and easy to adjust for different duties? Big on 'in theory' but I like the concept... XC/TX has a basic charging system so you can more easily add full lighting to it than say, an SX. As far as actually plating it, I've no idea on what's required in Mass so I'll defer to others. In Maine, it's under 300cc so it's whatever you want to register it as.

    The Beta RR series appears to be enduro focused, may need some massaging to be proper on an MX track?

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  3. #3
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    In theory the AER forks on the KTM XC / Husky TX should be more 'flexible' and easy to adjust for different duties? Big on 'in theory' but I like the concept... XC/TX has a basic charging system so you can more easily add full lighting to it than say, an SX. As far as actually plating it, I've no idea on what's required in Mass so I'll defer to others. In Maine, it's under 300cc so it's whatever you want to register it as.

    The Beta RR series appears to be enduro focused, may need some massaging to be proper on an MX track?
    You can assume than any bike will immediately go out for a revalve/spring. I know 100 different companies have great success with KTM but i'm not sure about beta, and I don't want to be the test mule.

    For plating, if nothing changes, KTM/ husky can be plated because the MSO doesn't state 'offroad use only' like the japanese manufacturers. They would never pass inspection, but I don't need it to. It just needs to be able to be registered and carry insurance. With the beta I'm not sure if you can get away with the same trick,

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  4. #4

    Re: Spend my money

    wow, I have no idea what you're talking about

    just going to follow to learn!

    why do you want a 2 smoke over any modern 250/350/450 thumper?

    I had read that the modern enduro thumpers can be a true do-it-all bike. No need to make an MX bike street legal...

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  5. #5
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    Maybe I’m a creature of habit. I have no real experience with 4 strokes off road. 2 strokes seem to be a better fit for hard enduro situations.

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  6. #6
    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    Your 300 is plated, right?

    Keep the 300, itís perfect for the woods. Go buy a YZ250 or 250SX, which is the correct tool for that job. N+1.

    Yes, I understand youíll have to build a second shed.

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  7. #7
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    Your 300 is plated, right?

    Keep the 300, it’s perfect for the woods. Go buy a YZ250 or 250SX, which is the correct tool for that job. N+1.

    Yes, I understand you’ll have to build a second shed.
    If I was to buy an MX only machine I think it would be a 4 stroke, and probably a Honda 450, to keep with the theme.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Spend my money

    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_X View Post
    If I was to buy an MX only machine I think it would be a 4 stroke, and probably a Honda 450, to keep with the theme.
    Then just take one of the ones you already have and convert it back?

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  9. #9
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    Re: Spend my money

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    why do you want a 2 smoke over any modern 250/350/450 thumper?

    I had read that the modern enduro thumpers can be a true do-it-all bike. No need to make an MX bike street legal...
    Why would you want a modern thumper over a modern 250/300 smoker? Lighter, less rotating mass to fight as you maneuver, lower maint costs, and now available in EFI flavor? No machine is a true do-it-all, diesel or fog machine as the primary factor dictating preferred role is suspension. Setup for MX, not going to be very happy in the woods, and vice versa. Air forks have the advantage of being easy to 're-spring' on demand but valving will still be off, and air shocks despite being around for 30+ years in modern form are still not popular so pick your setting there and adapt around it.

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    Re: Spend my money

    another vote for keeping the 300 for woods and add an MX-specific bike. it's the only way to go if track time is frequent. Honda 450 is a good choice ... as much as i like to push Beta, i don't think you'll be happy with an RR Race Edition for moto use without very specific suspension tuning ... not to mention, ground clearance and seat height are also lower on the Beta. might feel cramped.

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  11. #11
    TWINS! xrocket21's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    I'd go Beta! I rode one last year and really liked the feel of it! They look great too.

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    Lifer loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_X View Post
    If I was to buy an MX only machine I think it would be a 4 stroke, and probably a Honda 450, to keep with the theme.
    Cool. Do that then. That's the best option. N+1, dude. He who dies with the most motorcycles wins.

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  13. #13
    Your Father csmutty's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    4 stroke for mx...

    Sounds like you're getting old brother...

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  14. #14
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    Re: Spend my money

    So, another bike is not an option, no matter how much I want 10 more. Using one of my motards isn’t really worth it to me. There is too much setup difference to go back and forth and I wouldn’t want to lose my second bike.

    I’m not like a real motocrosser now, but I’m seeing where the W is too soft. I was hoping getting on an XC/TX would bridge the gap a bit, plus you get the better tranny and new engine. Maybe I want something that doesn’t exist.

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  15. #15
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    OK, then my vote is for a BYOB Beta 250RR Race you can have the suspension dialed for mixed use by the Beta Factory team before it arrives ... KYB CC / improved Sachs, counter-balancer, lights, etc for (potentially) less coin than Team Mainstream.

    i had the orig version of the 250 motor but that thing has lots of potential depending on where you want to take it power-delivery wise.




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  16. #16
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    Re: Spend my money

    fuck thats hot

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  17. #17
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    I've kind of narrowed it down to a KTM 250xc or a husqvarna tx300i. More research showed the beta was much more enduro oriented, and similar to the XCW. Tomorrow I'll guy buy the bike and I have a choice to buy either a 2018 or 2019 ktm or a 2020 husky. The 2018 and 2019 are regular carbed 250XC's and the 2020 husky has the new fancy fuel injected goodness. The KTM's are near identical other than graphics they are the same as the 2020 other than the motor.

    The new leftover '18 is about 8200, the '19 is 9600, and the 2020 is 10500, plus T,T,R and all that. It seems like saving a few grand to sink into the suspenders and farkles would be worth it, especially if the older carbed motor has the characteristics that i'm looking for.

    Thoughts?

    FWIW I plan to smash the bike up the day after I buy it at Jday.

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  18. #18
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Spend my money

    2019 got a new frame vs the 2018, and I think that is when an improved seal head design showed up for the AER fork air side, but don't quote me on that detail yet. I'm a bit surprised at the difference in price between the two still though. The 19 had a $300 bump in MSRP over the 18, I wonder if it's holding value with the 20s on the market as it's the last of the carb'd XCs?

    I'm loving my 2019 150SX, I'm too slow, and have too little time on it and the 2018s I borrowed prior to feel a difference between the frames myself to advise if that change is worth $1400.

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  19. #19
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    Re: Spend my money

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    2019 got a new frame vs the 2018, and I think that is when an improved seal head design showed up for the AER fork air side, but don't quote me on that detail yet. I'm a bit surprised at the difference in price between the two still though. The 19 had a $300 bump in MSRP over the 18, I wonder if it's holding value with the 20s on the market as it's the last of the carb'd XCs?

    I'm loving my 2019 150SX, I'm too slow, and have too little time on it and the 2018s I borrowed prior to feel a difference between the frames myself to advise if that change is worth $1400.
    https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/201...11-fast-facts/

    There were a lot of small tweaks, but I don't know how much it amounts to overall. It is listed at about 1000 more, but there is a freight charge that they wave for the '18. Maybe I could do some haggling, but I'm horrible at it.

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  20. #20
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    Re: Spend my money

    Well, you know they'll drop freight on one bike so they'll do it on another. It also doesn't hurt to call competitors and ask for an out the door quote and if you get lower quotes, tell your target shop "Beat this" and see what they'll do. I had one shop suddenly find they could go $1000 cheaper when given a competitor's quote. Just takes a few mins to call a place and get additional ammo, and makes the negotiation process simpler for you, you're not haggling details you're armed with a final number to get lower than, however they can pull it off is up to them. Waiving this, discount that, who cares how they write it up as long as the final number hits what it needs to be. Do NOT get into the hitting a target monthly payment BS, even if you're financing through them negotiate the final out the door price THEN chase interest rates and payment lengths. The best part, you can get that all done over the phone, where hanging up if you don't like what you're hearing is easy.

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  21. #21
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    Re: Spend my money

    My little amount of research tells me they are still going for MSRP +- 200. I'm not financing, so I figured a pocket full of cash would help. I don't know if thats the case anymore because they make money on the financing too. My hope was to have them drop the freight, and make a deal, but I may be dreaming. I would normally go to Cliffs but they don't have anything, so I'm trying Pilgrim Powersports in Plymouth. One of them is an LRRS guy, I could work that angle.

    The '19 makes more sense now. I thought the 18/19 were more similar than they are. I have a feeling the last of the carb bikes might hold their value well.

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  22. #22
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    Re: Spend my money

    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_X View Post
    https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/201...11-fast-facts/

    There were a lot of small tweaks, but I don't know how much it amounts to overall. It is listed at about 1000 more, but there is a freight charge that they wave for the '18. Maybe I could do some haggling, but I'm horrible at it.
    Try Motorsports Nation in Plainfield, Ct. Price wise, I’ve never left disappointed, always a decent discount, and none of those silly set up fees most charge for. Most recently, I walked in with a friend looking for a 150xcw and left with a new 2019 for $1,000 less than msrp

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  23. #23
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    Re: Spend my money

    Spend my money-6ef618c9-181c-43cb-aeed-847a1e20a012
    2019 250 XC in hand.

    I’ll add that pilgrim power sports was easy to work with and Paul made it easy to make a deal.

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  24. #24
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    Re: Spend my money

    Mini update/ review : 2019 KTM 250 XC

    I have 4 whole hours on the bike now. I bought it and rode it for about 20 minutes that day (one lap on the kiddy side of Freetown) to shake the bike down, then the next day raced the JDay at Southwick. Today I raced the woods-o-cross at Wareham MX. FWIW data points are limited to sandy woods and MX tracks.

    First impressions: The feels is light and playful. I don't know if it is any lighter, but it feels like a mountain bike compared to the old ride. It seems to sit a little lower than my XCW, and that may be making it seem easier to move around. The 250 wants to rev faster. It's narrow and the rider triangle is a good fit for me, so no need for different bars or a tall seat.

    Mods so far: I haven't done much to the bike, and I don't plan to. I did have the suspension revalved, cone-valves installed in the forks, and a bladder kit for the shock and I got to ride it today at Wareham. Warp 9 pegs, a EE brake pedal, hand guards, shark fin, and tubliss front and rear.

    The engine/tranny: It's everything I wanted and just what I expected. Compared to my 300, it's got less low end torque, not saying it doesn't have any, just not the rip your arms off pull that the 300 has. It also has more overrev, and a distinctive hit. Down low its very resistant to stalling and can be easy to accelerate from a full locked stop in 2nd gear. When it's time to to open it up the bike seems to have more power than my 300 from mid range on. The transmission with the shorter ratios it well suited to the motor and to most of the riding that I do. It's a really perfect match. The 250+xc tranny vs my old 300+xcw tranny makes me really wonder why that configuration is so popular.

    Suspension: I'm new to linkage and air forks, and it's a significant change from what I was used to. The Jday was a challenge in setup, and I couldn't be very objective with it. I rode the first moto of that race at factory settings and I was bottoming out the rear often in the whoops. Between the motos I grabbed a much stiffer spring from FC who was on site. The spring was right but I didn't make the right changes to slow the back end down to compensate for the new spring, and that led to a very unbalanced chassis. I got a few major tank slappers on the MX course and the bike just generally was much worse than the stock settings. Right after that race I asked on the Netra facebook page who to send the suspension to and about 10 people all said REP, a local company I've never used before. I got it back on and there was a great improvement at Wareham. Again, Im comparing to my 15xcw, but the seemed to perform better in almost every situation. Through the woods the rear stay more planted over whoops and the front end soaked up the bumps without any drama. The chassis seemed to help me recover better if i entered some whoops offline or seated, and had to make an adjustment mid run. The only thing that the PDS seemed to do better was accelerate over small bumps or logs/ rocks, which there are few of in wareham. The biggest difference was the bike didn't seem to wallow along in the big whooped out, sand turns on the MX track, letting me get harder on the gas earlier in the turn.

    What I miss/ plans: So my last bike had a rekluse, LHRB setup and Flexx bars. Honestly I couldn't care less about a new set of flexx bars, they were heavy and I don't know how much they actually helped. I could leave the auto clutch out too. Really I prefer the more direct control of a conventional clutch, especially in the relatively easy riding I've done so far. What I really, really, really miss is the left hand rear brake. I know, I know more time without it and I'll learn to use the conventional brake like everyone else. But, I just can imagine I'll ever have the same control with my big dumb foot as I can with my fingers. Clake makes a LHRB that apparently works with the conventional clutch lever in a way that you can use both, so that's on my radar. But, conventionally you need to run the auto clutch to effectively mount the LHRB lever. Also, I'd like to throw a damper on the bike because it gives me the warm and fuzzy's when I go fast or into rock gardens.

    In conclusion: I found the right bike, it's what I wanted an expected.

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    Last edited by maxim_X; 11-18-19 at 08:44 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Re: Spend my money

    Spend my money-530583e79e4fc7f75855995d511e185c-jpg

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