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Dirty fitness advice thread

  1. #1
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Dirty fitness advice thread

    Riding a dirt bike on an MX track is the toughest workout I've ever had. I don't seem to get a lot of arm-pump but virtually every other muscle in my body seems to scream after a lap or two.

    What are you guys doing for dirty fitness? Riding in the woods is really taxing as well, but doesn't seem to be as bad as MX does. I feel like I need a lot more core strength and a bunch more cardio endurance.

    I run a little bit and do spin class a little bit, but at the end of the day I'm a decent-sized guy (6'3", 220lbs) getting thrown around a lot.

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  2. #2
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    ride more, less breaks, give up drinking and ... read/watch anything from Gary Semics. he's got tons of great info and instruction on everything from technique to training to nutrition.

    woods will become more taxing when you stop less and ride more advanced trails but jumping in MX is really the big difference. when you can't double, it adds tons of fatigue. once you can double the track gets MUCH smoother flow-wise.

    EDIT: i'm saying this for myself as well, it's hard to get into really good (consistent) riding shape. takes dedication.

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  3. #3
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    just started getting back into MTB X-country. went from 22% BF to 19% and dropped 10#. also average running 3 miles in 27 min. alternating days. Yes in these hot days

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  4. #4
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    jumping in MX is really the big difference. when you can't double, it adds tons of fatigue. once you can double the track gets MUCH smoother flow-wise.
    I finally cleared a few jumps Sunday and I can't overstate how true this is!

    So, more throttle. Fixes everything.

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  5. #5
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    ride more, less breaks, give up drinking and ... read/watch anything from Gary Semics. he's got tons of great info and instruction on everything from technique to training to nutrition.
    Thanks! I hadn't heard of that guy. I think my endurance is getting better, I try to take as short breaks when MXing when possible. I seem to work harder but get hotter when riding in the woods, though, even if I'm wearing the same protective gear.

    woods will become more taxing when you stop less and ride more advanced trails but jumping in MX is really the big difference. when you can't double, it adds tons of fatigue. once you can double the track gets MUCH smoother flow-wise.
    At the end of Saturday afternoon I managed to double at a couple of places at NHMX where I couldn't before, though it was too late in the day to see if that leads to less fatigue for me.

    I am drinking less beer, but that's more coincidence than anything...

    Quote Originally Posted by nt650hawk View Post
    just started getting back into MTB X-country. went from 22% BF to 19% and dropped 10#. also average running 3 miles in 27 min. alternating days. Yes in these hot days
    That's awesome! How long did it take you to make those gains?

    Quote Originally Posted by carsick View Post
    I finally cleared a few jumps Sunday and I can't overstate how true this is!

    So, more throttle. Fixes everything.
    When in doubt...

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  6. #6
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    not sure if you're a member but ThumperTalk actually has some pretty good technique/training/nutrition info from time to time in their newsletter. they're usually short but free and decent.

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  7. #7
    Lifer lrrs313's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Ride a bicycle. A lot. Many of the pro MX riders are fairly high level cycle racers as well. Aldon Baker (trainer of some of the most dominant riders out there) is a former pro cyclist. Shoulder strength training, but don't work your arms as much (can increase arm pump). I thought P90X worked well, but I was going from very out of shape (and slow) to being in pretty good shape, 50+ pounds lighter (and still slow).

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  8. #8
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    x3 with the bikes. Road bikes for cardio and endurance, and mtb for skill and strength. It's all about pace with any two wheel sport i've noticed. When one rides at or near their limit of skill the effort is very high, and endurance suffers, and if you ride at 70-80% you feel like you can ride all day. I've noticed this at LRRS, dirt riding in the woods, or on my MTB bike. So, start pedaling and riding more, and when you feel like you need a break, ride more instead.

    There are other thing I've been doing to help, more traditional weight lifting and occasional cardio and weights classes. I don't know how effective the lifting is for riding, but the classes emulate a short course race exertion.

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  9. #9
    Lifer
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    What's a "weight class"? Group weight lifting? Some sort of aerobic aspect?

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  10. #10
    suburban ghetto living... black's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    I havent had time to spend 90 min mtn biking etc anymore....

    I found p90x3 does wonders... and keeps me at a level that not 100% at my best for any activity keeps me at a good general fitness level at an 80% effectiveness
    For example i have not run anything in about 6 months I used to run regularly.

    I went for a run and cranked out a steady 9/10 min mile with good endurance/ strong kick for 3 miles. no cramps, no i felt like i'm dying to finish it. In the past if i let running go i'd be happy to start off at a 2 mile 11
    min pace

    I'd expect a similar feelign If I actually went mtn biking.

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    hmmmm......

  11. #11
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    right there with you. 3 miles in 27min. MTB 1.5=2 hours is my escape from everything but myself. been riding for the past month 2 times a week and running in between. i'll run when i get home from work late. throw on some clothes the off i go.

    I've slowly been working in it. walking 2 miles at lunch then when i fell walking was slow i stated jogging/running. I've been walking all year the jogging started a couple of months ago. Sometimes if i still feel good i throw in a couple of extra miles. I've cut back on the drinking . "I Know, right'! i have not had the need for it as i'm killing the stress exercising. and halving my dinner portions.

    hardest part for me is the Gut.

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    Gino
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  12. #12
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    i've been having fun trail running lately. started as a competition with my wife to summit Wachusett and down in X amount of time. i hate running, like really hate it, but trail running in the woods is a blast. sketchy on the gnarly stuff but anything above a hiking pace really gets your heartrate going and feels like biking... without the bike.

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  13. #13
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    I don't have any MX experience, but I can say that XC mountain biking really helped me in the woods. I did a weekend trip to Jericho Park last year and almost quit half way through the first day. I was painfully sore for literally an entire week after, like, no noticeable improvement by the following Friday. It was crazy. I started mountain biking 2-3 days a week over the winter, and did a similar weekend trip earlier this year. ~15 hours of trail riding in 2 days, zero issues and I wanted more when the sun went down on the second day. That being said, my initial problem was more about stamina while standing, which I imagine is less of a consideration with MX.

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  14. #14
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    What's a "weight class"? Group weight lifting? Some sort of aerobic aspect?
    Like p90x, it's an aerobics class with weights involved. You pretty much do the whole class holding 10lb Dumbbells.

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  15. #15
    suburban ghetto living... black's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_X View Post
    Like p90x, it's an aerobics class with weights involved. You pretty much do the whole class holding 10lb Dumbbells.
    big burn.. high puke factor if not used to this type. really gets the lactic acid going in a sadistic way if done right.

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    hmmmm......

  16. #16
    Lifer Danz19899's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    Riding a dirt bike on an MX track is the toughest workout I've ever had. I don't seem to get a lot of arm-pump but virtually every other muscle in my body seems to scream after a lap or two.

    What are you guys doing for dirty fitness? Riding in the woods is really taxing as well, but doesn't seem to be as bad as MX does. I feel like I need a lot more core strength and a bunch more cardio endurance.

    I run a little bit and do spin class a little bit, but at the end of the day I'm a decent-sized guy (6'3", 220lbs) getting thrown around a lot.

    Try doing more Cross-fit style workouts, Incorporating weights with cardio, will help you build core strength and endurance. Also High Intensity Interval Training works really good, do 2 minutes working out really hard then 2 minute rest then repeat.

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  17. #17
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    General strength training is the basic building block to all things that are physically demanding. If you have the equipment, or a gym that will support it (actual barbells, no smith racks) it's worth considering. No need to go crazy...Just do the 5 fundamental barbell lifts - Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Power Cleans, and Press. Do 3 sets of 5 for each over a two day routine.

    Day 1
    Squat
    Bench
    Power Clean

    Day 2
    Squat
    Press
    Deadlift

    Rest 1:30 between sets, 3:00 if you struggled to finish your last set. Start super light and add 5lbs (2.5lb plate on each side) each time you lift. It works out to be a 45 minute routine that works incredibly well.

    When it gets too heavy and you are not able to complete 3 sets of 5, drop the weight by 10% and continue adding weight as you have been from there. The first couple times you do this, you'll bust right through where you stalled like you were able to lift that weight all along. After doing this three times for the squat and deadlift, it's time for a new routine. With the other lifts just keep going as long as you can until you tap out in the deadlift and/or squat.

    ***Obsess over form***. The importance of good form cannot be overstated. If you start getting any kind of pain research the exercise and the pain. The answers come pretty easily when you combine these two elements.

    I've added 100lbs to my squat and 50lbs to my bench press in just over two months doing this routine. Obviously the other lifts have increased for me as well, but since I wasn't doing them before I started the routine I have no comparison. Either way, it works and it makes everything you do that's physically demanding feel MUCH easier.

    Throw in a little cardio to balance out the strength with some endurance and that's all you should need. Cycling is ideal for this aspect.

    I'd say save the strength training for winter only, and the mountain biking for summer only. That way your cardio won't put a dent in the progress of your strength gains.

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  18. #18
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Maybe it's just me, but I feel like basic strength training like you mention helps very little or sometimes hurts when it comes to racing fitness. Bigger strong muscles tend to fatigue more quickly unless the person trains for endurance as well. It's something I personally have trouble with. Deadlifting 405x5 has no effect on racing endurance. Don't get me wrong, having a strong muscle base can't hurt, but that training seems it should be secondary to more athletic aerobic things.

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  19. #19
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    +1, it's not just you, i was going to say the same about that strength training schedule...

    Chris (#9) is better off adding 1. more spin classes (or other cycling) and 2. focused core strength routines. those two alone will bring huge rewards.

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  20. #20
    Lifer
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Definitely more of an endurance game. If you want to lift, it probably should be focused on many reps with middle-weight instead of going for the usual big weight with 3 sets of 5 or 10 reps. Orrrr mountain biking Ride your dirtbike harder in the woods too. A hard woods ride has been the best head-to-toe workout I've ever had, but need the cycling for the cardio.

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  21. #21
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    another +1 ... my relatively short woods rides of 1.5hr have me in the cardio zone for ~45min and peak heart rate (around 180) for the other ~45min. great workout. wish i could do it every day

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  22. #22

    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Is your suspension setup for you?

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  23. #23
    Lifer BSR6's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Nothing could be further from the truth...Although I must admit I believed the same things until I legitimately engaged in a good strength program.

    Omitting strength training is as detrimental to your progress as omitting cardio. It's a 50/50 split. Stronger muscles use more energy, but they do FAR more work with less effort. The lack of effort surpasses the draw of the increased mass and actually leads to gains in all-round performance. I had no idea how significant this aspect of it was until I experienced it.

    Now I should clarify...I'm pitching a strength training program...NOT a body building program. The focus of a strength program is to make you stronger, while body building makes you bigger. Surprisingly, not much size comes with strength. It takes a different kind of routine to bulk up. I would not recommend a body building routine as that may lead to the points made above.

    Stay with the compound barbell lifts I listed, keep it at 3 sets per lift, no more than 5 reps, and keep increasing the weight. You won't get much bigger, but you'll get a hell of a lot stronger.

    I was a competitive mountain biker for more than 10 years. I've now experience both sides of the spectrum and I assure you, too much emphasis on cardio is a big mistake. If only I knew this a long time ago.

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  24. #24
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Best conditioning for mx=ride mx, as often as possible, and push yourself while doing it, especially in terms of not quitting as soon as your arms start to pump. The arms might not be your weak point now, but they will be as your speed increase...hell, even top riders still struggle with arm pump. Everything about going fast tortures them: acceleration, braking, hammering thru whoops (especially), and landings.

    I know it's hard to find riding areas and time and all, but I also know there is NO workout regimen that without actually riding, simulates what mx does to your body well enough where mx won't pick out the weak spots in your fitness and torture/exploit them until you quit. Usually forearms, cardio, legs, and back, roughly in that order.

    If you can't ride mx to train, riding the motorcycle in tough woods is a damn good substitute. Riding a dirtbike around fields or groomed tracks or even road racing won't really do diddly for mx training IMO.

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  25. #25
    Lifer
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    Re: Dirty fitness advice thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BSR6 View Post
    I was a competitive mountain biker for more than 10 years. I've now experience both sides of the spectrum and I assure you, too much emphasis on cardio is a big mistake. If only I knew this a long time ago.
    I've come to believe not eating enough is a problem some of the hobbyist cardio crowd might not realize they have. They're focused on living a healthy life, so they're conservative in their diet but burn thousands of calories running the rubber off their shoes. You don't want any extra weight slowing you down, so no need to go crazy. But still need to eat enough to see any benefits from exercising.

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