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street legal 2-strokes

  1. #776

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    so many lost friendships over the debate...

    what do I want?

    the opposite of the YZ - change oil occasionally, get on it & ride, no fuel range anxiety, can ride local trails, desert, and LAB2V.

    the adv/drz guru's all say - don't get an S. Get either an SM (for better brakes/suspension), or better yet get an E model (better cams/carbs) or a 440 kit, you gotta do the 3x3 mod/jet kit/exhaust/seat/the tank with 7.4 gallons and, you know what? buy this $4,400 DRZ because it's had everything done to it

    but part of me is all - really? why a souped up DRZ? kinda like putting lipstick on a pig or souping up a corolla "30mpg 250hp"

    what I don't like:
    -the E models/swaps don't have odometers. everyone says "mileage unknown, but I opened the valve cover and it looked like new" - it's like saying "new top end"
    -SM - still have to buy the dirt wheels
    -7.4 gallon tank - that's a lot of weight on a 330lb pig...good if you want to ride across Utah on smooth desert roads, but a bit much when going up whopped out rocky hill climbs. the specific bike that has that tank is in AZ...and with 1,700 miles can't be plated in CA until it hits 7,500 miles

    I honestly think the newest, lowest mileage -S is what I want. I'm not going to put on a 440 kit, re-jet/exhaust, or anything. Just move my giant loop mojavi bags over (has spare tube, pump, tools, and 1 gallon of gas in a dromedary bag), ride it a few years and sell it at 10k miles. while they do have a reputation for being reliable, they do still blow up over a long enough period of time.

    saw a 2011 1,500 mile one in San Diego for $3,500
    saw a 2008 2,100 mile one in Huntington Beach for $3500

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 08-01-19 at 01:23 PM.
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  2. #777
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    E brings you more perf from the motor. Are you riding in situations where you NEED that additional umph? If you're not ragging the snot out of the 250 now, I wouldn't get wound up over hot cams / carb / big bore just yet.

    SM - I dunno how much of a 'win' the SM's USD forks are vs the conventional forks on the other models, again how hard are you riding? This might be a distinction that doesn't mean anything when you compare the two setups after having the sprung and valved for you?

    I think you're on the right track looking for a low milage, not beat to hell S and just running it.

    How does the CRF250L compare to the DRZ?

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  3. #778
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Also, what are others using for the LAB2V rides?

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  4. #779
    Lifer
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    As far as DRZ 400's go, my experience has been that performance modifications are directly inversely proportional to reliability. A pipe and jetting (w/3x3 air box mod) are about as far as I would go. Every big bore kitted DRZ I have come across has had overheating issues and did not last long. The Thumpertalk website originated around the DRZ platform, and there is a lot of history and good info there, but most of the original participants have moved on from the DRZ now.
    DRZ 400 Achilles Heel: The counter shaft bushing. Before you buy any DRZ400, make sure that you put the bike up on a stand, in neutral, and verify that the rear wheel spins easily. If there is any drag on it (heavier than normal) - it usually means that someone has over-tightened the counter shaft sprocket at some time, and crushed the brass bushing behind the sprocket. This requires case splitting to replace.
    https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic...t-loctite-fix/

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    Last edited by gregp; 08-01-19 at 02:59 PM.

  5. #780

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    I agree, I am not trying to compromise reliability for performance...that is what the YZ is

    And while I love the full power of the YZ, it only makes up 5-10% of the long desert loops we do. I can get by just fine with a stock S

    Most guys run a 500/525, my friend has a 701, others have 501s, 450’s etc. some nuts run GS and AT’s, some bougee guys run betas, and some of people come
    With XR400’s/650L’s/650R’s. Few vintage motor which are cool. Run what ya brung, but the lightest long distance bike is best

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  6. #781
    Awesomeness, Inc. MattR302's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    I believe the E model doesn’t have a rear subframe, which may impact your ability to put the luggage bags on it.
    NHBubba had a S version for a while, he’d be able to give you more input on its dirt-ability

    Compared to the DRZ-S, I’d probably prefer a decent KLX250 with the 351 bigbore kit. Lighter weight, 6 speed, nicer dash. Or a WR250R.

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    Last edited by MattR302; 08-01-19 at 09:59 PM.

  7. #782
    Lifer
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    I forgot about the -E model sub-frame. I think it does have a sub-frame it's just smaller. Either way, Matt is right; less tourable.
    Not that I found the DRZ at all tourable. Not for my kind of thing. I tried, just wasn't for me. But I seen dudes do it.

    I think the inverted forks on the -SM are overrated. The -S and -E model have had proper cartridge forks since like '02. I swapped springs and put fresh oil and seals on and was delighted with the results. I ran mine at a MX event (Stimilon) after having ridden the KTM 200 all day as kind of a fun decompression for the day. I was really pleased at how it went around that track. I had similar results on my little test track out back.

    -S brakes are fine for dual sporting. Just fine.

    -E model is interesting for the cams and that carb. They want real money for those flat-slides now.
    I've never ridden an -E. I'm sure it's fine. Honestly, the -S had all the poke I needed for off-road use. It was the track/street SM use that left me wanting.

    I loved my DRZ400S. Would own one again were I looking for a light, local use dual-sport.


    Is the KLX250 really that much lighter than the DRZ? The CRF250L is a good bit HEAVIER.. and much slower. I don't know where Honda hides the weight. But it is definitely in there!


    Were I looking for a no-nonsense, street legal woods toy I'd be looking at a KTM EXC. Probably a 450 or 500 if I wanted legs for highway.

    I have a plated WR450F in my stable right now and it isn't bad. Pretty exciting bike off road and I understand why so many ride 4t. But its is crap on the road; hates cruising at a constant speed, it always wants to be all the way on it. Way too hyperactive for me. Not that I think a KTM500 isn't hyperactive.

    Also on my radar might be the WR250R if looking for a bombproof, gas 'n go solution. Maybe the KLX300; I just recently learned of these and they seem pretty spiffy. A real woods bike. (I guess they are bringing this back now with EFI?! ) Probably not CA friendly though.

    Me, I'm headed back to the land of overweight street ADV bikes.
    I'm also done with bikes that go dirt <=> SM. Doing that swap has lost all its luster for me.
    I have less and less time to ride and as such am seeing the appeal of a one-machine for it all setup. One machine to register. One to inspect. One to insure. One to maintain. More space in the garage. ADV'ers are the universal solution here.

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  8. #783

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    oops, haha...when I say luggage, I just mean the giant loop mojavi bags lol...gallon of gas, spare tube, pump, tools...not looking to tour; just be prepared on a 150ish mile desert loop

    but bubba's post confirms it - an S is fine. suspension and brakes for desert dual sporting are fine.

    I don't plan on swapping sm wheels or anything. it'll be a dual sport. Ninja for the street. YZ for high performance off road needs.

    and I'm not looking to boost out a klx or any other small bike with a bigger piston just to save weight. again - my YZ is already a light, 43hp bike with a 2 year interval for a rebuild. the point of the replacement is to do minimal work on it.

    I did consider the wr250r...but man it's a $6k bike for slightly better off road performance, but still not ripping status. one of the adv gurus bought one and put a bigger piston/bored cylinder and it was still meh. at that price point I will rebuild the yz 8-10 times LOL

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  9. #784
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    You can buy a plated KTM 450/500 for $5/6k...why would you buy a DRZ at this point? You could sell the YZ to fund the difference, from what you say you get get ALL the money for a plated 2t in Cali. The KTM will outperform the YZ and DRZ in spades in literary every category.

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  10. #785

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    That has also been discussed amongst some of my channels. One of my friends said once you ride one, you won’t want a mellow/low maintenance 4 stroke ever again LOL. But the strategy here is a trade off in performance for lower maintenance and convenience because 90% of the riding I do doesn’t require 43hp+. The 450-500’s require more maintenance than a DRZ (although less than the YZ) so I thought I would try it first... I am renting a DRZ400S ($70+ taxes/fees) tomorrow to see if I am okay with the power

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  11. #786

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    it's okay...



    beach run done, next a dirt run close to home in the mountains

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  12. #787
    Awesomeness, Inc. MattR302's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    it's okay...

    beach run done, next a dirt run close to home in the mountains
    Well...? You saving your pennies for some orange koolaid or is it ok enough?

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  13. #788
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    I think you overestimate the actual maintenance interval of something Orange.

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  14. #789
    Lifer
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    And I think you underestimate the price delta between an orange 450/500 and a DRZ.

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  15. #790
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    And I think you underestimate the price delta between an orange 450/500 and a DRZ.
    Not exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    You can buy a plated KTM 450/500 for $5/6k...why would you buy a DRZ at this point? You could sell the YZ to fund the difference, from what you say you get get ALL the money for a plated 2t in Cali. The KTM will outperform the YZ and DRZ in spades in literary every category.
    My formula also includes sale of YZ for $2-2.5k which closes the gap. 1 bike to rule them all, its in the maffs.

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  16. #791
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    $2k is likely a stretch for the sale price on that YZ, and I'm betting the proceeds from that sale will form the the bulk of the purchase power put towards it's replacement rather than a partial supplement.

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  17. #792
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Eh? He is looking at keeping the YZ, then spending $3-4k on a DRZ and having 2 motorcycles. I'm estimating $2-2.5k on the YZ because its street legal and Bhavesh has gone on about how plated smokers are at a premium in Cali; plus his has a fresh motor with a wide ratio gearbox. Add that up and you're most of the way to something modern and Orange, which IMO will kick the shit out of either the YZ or the DRZ in all categories other than being cheap.

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  18. #793

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    What’s in between a DRZ and a 450L?

    I do overestimate the maintenance of the Orange...it scares me. are Any of their models less maintenance intensive?

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  19. #794
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    What’s in between a DRZ and a 450L?
    WR250R

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    I do overestimate the maintenance of the Orange...it scares me. are Any of their models less maintenance intensive?
    Here's what I'll say about service intervals "large" displacement Orange thumpers; basically, the service interval is defined at worst case scenario. Like professional enduro rider doing the Dakar rally at WOT, even then it's aggressive. Their biggest detriment is low oil capacity, you can improve that with an aftermarket clutch cover if you're really worried about it. People literally ride for *years* just changing their oil around every 1,000 miles and typically find that after 5,000 miles their valves are still in spec. Yes, you should check your valves, more frequently early on if buying used or after break-in if buying new. Ride your long stretches of pavement at modest throttle (still better power than a DRZ) and have your fun when you get to the playground, it will be fine.

    The biggest concern would be purchasing a used bike that's been poorly maintained.

    Have a read of this thread on ADV Rider. There's some conjecture but what MOST report is as I've stated.

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    Last edited by loudbeard; 08-06-19 at 11:50 AM.
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  20. #795

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    WR250R
    this has also been discussed and:
    positives
    -fun bike, more capable off road than the DRZ400
    -generally very reliable and low service interval
    negatives
    -under powered...won't be "ripping" on this bike (WHICH IS FINE)
    -"you won't be happy"
    -I've gotten PM's from the ADV guru's steering me away from the WR250R...saying they punched it out to 285 or whatever and it still sucked
    -price - $3,800-$4,500 used...at that price point, why not get an Enduro and dual sport it?

    I wrote it off due to performance, but I want a turn key dual sport I can ride LAB2V without being scared the motor will grenade or the fork seals start leaking. It's back on my radar

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    The biggest concern would be purchasing a used bike that's been poorly maintained.
    this is where the price point vs. indian "cheapness" clash - at the $3,500-$6,500 price point you can get one. but at $3,500-$4,500 it can be a gamble based on how poorly it's been maintained...so my logic is to increase the budget to $6k or more (more than what my truck's worth ) to get a lower hour bike

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    Have a read of this thread on ADV Rider. There's some conjecture but what MOST report is as I've stated.
    got through 3 pages of this...now the 690 is back on the radar

    better yet, maybe I can dip a toe in the 450/500 kool aid...periodic oil changes and valve checks because I'm "dual sporting" the bike, not racing it

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 08-06-19 at 04:51 PM.
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  21. #796

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by MattR302 View Post
    Well...? You saving your pennies for some orange koolaid or is it ok enough?
    it was honestly just an okay bike (as expected) off road





    I could live with it...but all my friends are telling me "it's okay" is never something you want to hear:
    -after sex
    -after a meal
    -about motorcycles

    I am checking daily for "deals" on drz400s...there isn't much. my criteria to buy is low mileage (under 2,500 miles), not super old (many 2001-2003 out there), $3,500 with the "must have mods" (3+ gallon tank, skid plate, hand guards, exhaust/jet kit), or $3k for a stock one.

    a solid enough deal, and I'll buy it.

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  22. #797
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    We’re getting somewhere

    So I’ll ask the question again to massage your cost concerns a bit more. If you go with an Orange 450/500, do you agree you wouldn’t need the YZ as well? Because your $3500 DRZ budget + $2k in YZ value basically gets you to that upper price tier you’re fighting out of habit.

    There has to be somewhere you can get a rental, right? We’re talking 240 pounds with killer suspension and 50 horsepower. That’s a game changer for your riding.

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  23. #798

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Hypothetically speaking, what if an NESRian is selling a 2011 TE449 for $4,500 with 6,600 miles?

    https://palmsprings.craigslist.org/m...940201591.html

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  24. #799
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    Hypothetically speaking, what if an NESRian is selling a 2011 TE449 for $4,500 with 6,600 miles?

    https://palmsprings.craigslist.org/m...940201591.html
    you know my answer

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  25. #800
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    So, I get looking for lowish miles. Not sure I'd care about age if the miles are low, it's not like DRZs are a constantly evolving bike?

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