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street legal 2-strokes

  1. #976
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes


    There's "removing the bolt" and "removing the bolt without collateral damage". Given how dry his bearings were, there may be some heavy corrosion that's complicating matters.

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  2. #977

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    Are you saying he couldn't get the bolt out that's pictured on the OE linkage below? If so, I don't know if that's enough to distrust their abilities, but it raises an eyebrow. A DIY'er with limited tools and 101 experience might struggle, but a shop should have a press. Was this just a case of 'not worth the effort'?

    That is correct; I responded the same way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    There's "removing the bolt" and "removing the bolt without collateral damage". Given how dry his bearings were, there may be some heavy corrosion that's complicating matters.
    This...he tried heat and pneumatic and it wouldn’t come off. He wanted to break it or cut it off

    Either way, I found it’s not worth steering people like him for bigger jobs. Way easier to find someone else with better available.

    Letting the first guy finish the linkage while the motor is getting rebuilt...I will button it back together.

    In the mean time - anyone read anything about Nitro Mousse for 17 miles of pavement on a 250 and 135lb rider?

    Thinking of having new tires and Mousses mounted so I don’t have to worry about flats. One less thing to go wrong on the trail

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  3. #978
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    There's "removing the bolt" and "removing the bolt without collateral damage". Given how dry his bearings were, there may be some heavy corrosion that's complicating matters.
    "I thought EDM was a genre of music" --Kurlon, probably

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  4. #979
    Lifer
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    There's "removing the bolt" and "removing the bolt without collateral damage". Given how dry his bearings were, there may be some heavy corrosion that's complicating matters.
    I assumed that part, but still. Soak it in wd40 for a night, heat it with a torch till it can cook a steak a few times, and then stick it in a press with a cup on the other side. If that doesn't do it, then time to either cut the knuckle out or acquire ebay replacements. I'd be really surprised if it got to that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    Either way, I found it’s not worth steering people like him for bigger jobs. Way easier to find someone else with better available.
    Agreed. All you'd be doing is encouraging them to use you as the test dummy for some new skills development.
    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    In the mean time - anyone read anything about Nitro Mousse for 17 miles of pavement on a 250 and 135lb rider?
    I think that might depend on whether it's 17mi of backroads, or 17mi of 75mph down a hot highway.

    An enduro guy I know is running mouses right now on his enduro bike that sees some dual sporting, but that's going to be mostly backroad stuff and probably not 17mi all at once. I don't have any first hand experience with mouses, but if you're planning to run them at higher speeds, I'd go for a stiffer core to keep the heat down. A secondary problem that might develop is if they allow your tire carcass to flex more, it might rapidly accelerate the knob wear. You're probably 30lb+ lighter than most of the people chewing up stuff though, so you got that going for you.

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  5. #980
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    If you do it, fresh lube on the mousse before the ride.

    And I'd love an EDM setup... not that I've seen any motorcycle shops with them.

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  6. #981

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    The pavement is:
    -3 miles of 30-45mph w’ traffic lights
    -8 miles at 55mph “highway”
    -6 miles of 25-35mph; residential canyon road

    Lube and go?

    2nd set of rims with tubes?

    All of mousses and tires are different, let’s try it out and see how it goes?

    Jimmy Lewis said they may overheat due to each “squish” heats up the tires. Anecdotal evidence means nothing; every rider, bike, and condition can impact if this is “okay”.

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 11-19-20 at 04:24 PM.

  7. #982
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    I wouldn't do it, that'll melt that mousse, and it's NOT cheap.

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  8. #983
    Lifer
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    The pavement is:
    -3 miles of 30-45mph w’ traffic lights
    -8 miles at 55mph “highway”
    -6 miles of 25-35mph; residential canyon road

    Lube and go?

    2nd set of rims with tubes?

    All of mousses and tires are different, let’s try it out and see how it goes?

    Jimmy Lewis said they may overheat due to each “squish” heats up the tires. Anecdotal evidence means nothing; every rider, bike, and condition can impact if this is “okay”.
    Are thorn punctures a big issue out there? I'd expect your pinch flat risk is lower with your terrain and your lightness. I don't think I'd risk messing around with mousses versus the tried-n-true inner tube, especially if pinch flat risk is lower.

    I'm not sure anyone here really has the direct experience you'd need to know for sure. I think older mousse experience might be a different than the current options too. Jimmy Lewis likely has his throttle glued open to save arm pump, so slightly different end-user. But he's right that the big problem is mousse and tire deformation producing heat that leads to premature failure. That's all tire configurations. I might ask one of the manufacture's sales reps and see if they try and steer you one way or another.

    I'd written off mousses but was recently re-visiting that decision a couple months ago and re-affirmed 'probably not worth it'. Couple people I've seen run tubeless bladder conversions haven't been thrilled by it either. Has drawbacks just like the tubes do, just slightly different problems. Not necessarily a regret, but probably not something they'll be running to put on their next bike either.

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  9. #984

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    negative...I've *never* gotten a flat

    I comfortably run 14 psi and have never gotten a pinch flat either

    the last flat in our crew was a nail in the desert...took us like an hour to get going, and we punctured one of the tubes we tried to inflate

    I just need to get comfortable/experienced w' changing a tube on the trail

    HD/UHD tubes it is...

    2nd set of rims: tubes + stickiest tires for kart track

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  10. #985

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    good news: linkage was finished on Monday!



    Bad news: I picked it up on Tuesday, go to install it on the bike, loosely install 2 of the bolts, go to install the one cast thread bolt on the linkage, and go to torque it down to 35ft lbs (even tested the torque wrench on a 40ft lb installed bolt), and it just kept spinning.

    I thought I stripped out the threads on the DeVol!

    Then I went to unscrew it, and a coil came out with it. This had been repaired in the past.

    so now, I can have it repaired again, or just run a M10 x 1.25 x 45mm bolt all the way through w' a lock nut on the other side. I also considering the oem linkage rebuilt instead of running the Devol w' damaged threads in the back of my head

    on the plus side, the right side gas tank bolt was starting to cross thread right at the top, and I carefully ran a thread chaser and a 1/4 turn of a tap, and now it threads properly

    I stopped by the machine shop that will be rebuilding the motor to drop off a new shifter to go w' the new shift shaft, and they haven't started it (as expected)...so while that's getting worked on I can finish the other small tasks. I test fitted the new swingarm and I now have a legit kickstand

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 11-24-20 at 11:40 PM.
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  11. #986
    Lifer
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    go to install the one cast thread bolt on the linkage, and go to torque it down to 35ft lbs (even tested the torque wrench on a 40ft lb installed bolt), and it just kept spinning.
    This might be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but skip the torque wrench. Especially for lower torque items and non-critical stuff (e.g. it's not a headstud). The margin for error gets narrow, and you have a falsely-confident hand pulling till it clicks (or get easier...). Plus some torque specs are lubed, and some aren't. And you might want to use threadlocker in some places and not others.

    Checking against an existing torqued bolt and be tricky too because there can be an initial resistance due to friction that's not necessarily reflective of the torque applied from a steady, progressive turning when it was fresh. Plus it helps you develop the feel. Granted you don't get the feel until you've fucked up a thing or two.

    Aren't there inserts that are available in 'plus' sizes to accommodate a situation like that? Insert in an insert? Insertception! Longer bolt with nut on the end? I'd really hate to have to set it up for a larger diameter bolt - don't forget it's still got to go through the shock eyelet.

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  12. #987
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Timesert, done. Easy repair that will last.

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  13. #988
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    This might be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but skip the torque wrench.
    cries in harbor freight 1/4" torque wrench

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  14. #989
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    it only took me ~38 years but i finally started using torque wrenches for the critical stuff a few years ago, i find they provide peace of mind over guessing ... but i'm lucky in that some engineer went and made a full PDF spreadsheet with revised torque values, with lube/loctite/dry spec, for the Betas. super handy and accurate.

    i'd fix the shock mount threads properly if you're planning to use that knuckle. a longer bolt + nut might work but like Alden points out, you'll want to make sure it's correct everywhere else so you don't cause any additional damage. tons of force being applied to those connection points repeatedly.

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  15. #990
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Timesert, done. Easy repair that will last.
    how do those hold up over time in a high-stress area like that?

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  16. #991
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by typeone View Post
    how do those hold up over time in a high-stress area like that?
    Better than the original aluminum they're repairing for sure. In this case Timesert vs coil the sert has the advantage of being a single solid piece that also has a flanged end to provide additional stability against side loading.

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  17. #992
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Better than the original aluminum they're repairing for sure. In this case Timesert vs coil the sert has the advantage of being a single solid piece that also has a flanged end to provide additional stability against side loading.
    cool, thanks. i've never had to use either style before (knocks on wooden head).

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  18. #993
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    I've used a ton of helicoils, and a few timeserts. Heli's are a quicker install requiring less material removal, hence my goto. Had real good luck with timeserts on cheap chinese chocolate cast mini hubs that would strip rotor bolts out if you looked at them. Timesert them and no more issues.

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  19. #994
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    I've used a ton of helicoils, and a few timeserts. Heli's are a quicker install requiring less material removal, hence my goto. Had real good luck with timeserts on cheap chinese chocolate cast mini hubs that would strip rotor bolts out if you looked at them. Timesert them and no more issues.
    Timeserts are used on aluminum (and magnesium) air-cooled Porsche motors to stop them from pulling themselves apart. I don't think they're cheap though...

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  20. #995

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    I have a craftsman clicker torque wrench; for critical parts like motor/drain plugs/suspension, I set the torque properly (ideally on fresh threaded nuts/bolts if possible), run it, then check the torque one more time, then forget about it.

    btw - does anyone know of a shallow headed torque wrench? mine doesn't fit into the frame crevice to torque that linkage bolt

    at this point I want to rebuild the stock linkage & run that. In the mean time, get a reputable machine shop to do the best time sert (w' a new bolt) as they can, then do a shock revalve before running the Devol

    FWIW - I was able to get the linkage bolt off that the other mechanic couldn't.

    I just put it back on the bike so I'd have more leverage, then used a breaker bar.

    EDIT #10: The offspring radio on pandora is so rad while working on a dirtbike. 90's offspring/greenday/etc.

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 11-25-20 at 03:13 PM.
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  21. #996
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Torque wrench tip: Do NOT 'check the torque again' after it clicks the first time. Every re-check you do adds torque to the fastener.

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  22. #997
    Lifer
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Torque wrench tip: Do NOT 'check the torque again' after it clicks the first time. Every re-check you do adds torque to the fastener.
    I almost said the same thing. Then I dusted off a fastener book and revisited the topic. I think technically, it'd only be increasing the torque if you're moving the fastener on the second check. If the wrench simply clicks the second time with no movement, then it's likely fine if the initial application was correct. The catch is if under-torqued the first time, the wrench may still click the second time due to friction. And if it was over-torqued the first time, it's still likely to click. So you can check it twice. But I'm not sure there's a benefit when considering the ambiguity of the result.

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  23. #998

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    yeah, I dunno about torques...my biggest fear is over tightening and stripping something that's critical and can't be repaired. The smaller/non-essential stuff (plastics/seat/exhaust) gets hand torqued and checked before a ride. The good news it that the bike's frame only has 4 major cast threads I could possibly destroy: gas tank bolts and seat bolts. Mostly everything else outside the motor has a nut and bolt you can easily replace if I over torque it or cross thread it.

    CEET tall seat foam: has anyone tried it?

    maybe:
    -tall seat foam (to level out the "dip" in the middle/front)
    -IMS pegs
    -offset bar risers

    combined, may increase the size of the rider compartment (peg to handlebar dimensions) to help with standing and getting up on the tank? like newer bikes?

    not really high on my list, but just a thought. But articles I've scoured on the webs state it will change the fundamental handling/steering of the bike; keep it stock.

    Also I've been scrolling through some of the old magazine articles on the 1994 YZ (model the WR was based on); here are some highlights:

    From May 1994 magazine article from Motocross Action...

    Power: They dyno'd the bike at 44.9hp off the countershaft. Compared to the CR/RM/KX of that era, it was generally smooth, predictable and electric. It made the bike fast without making it feel like you were going fast. The exhaust port had an arch up top instead of being flat, and subports moved up 1mm to smooth the transition from mid to top range power. But although it made more low end power on the dyno, it didn't feel usable. The first few laps by test riders made them doubt the bike had any low end at all. But as you wind it up, you'll find it has smooth, progressive mid range where the power grows "with every breath". This is the mid-range "hit" that it's well known for, and it helped the bike win many hole shots. However up top, all racers will tell you it signs off, having them wishing for more top end/high rpm power compared to the CR. The Honda CR also felt like it had power in its entire rpm range and was faster on the track.

    Handling: It's steerable, felt light, and stable with nonexistent headshake; so historically good on bigger tracks where you click 3rd. But as most of you know, a big focus area of this bike is the rear end. The spring rates are soft and the rising rate is wrong; so it hangs low in the rear, bucks, and bounces all over the place under acceleration. Without stiff pre-load, it doesn't turn as well. This is where a stiffer spring, more pre-load, and a Devol link will "fix that errant feel." If you're running the stock linkage, the sag makes a huge difference. In more than one place, the magazines said a stiff 93mm of sag is the right amount. at 100mm you'll hate it. But at 93mm, the stiff pre-load eliminates quibbles and takes advantage of the progressive rising rate. Up front, the forks are some of the best of that year; works well at fast tracks and big jumps and stock was good for 160lb riders. Note: Yamaha also *decreased* the travel for this year and made a more steep steering head angle. They claimed that it would turn better, improved absorption of sharp edged bumps, more traction, and decreased bottoming.

    Clutch: Some complaints, grabby off the line, inaccurate response, lever pressure changes w' heat. Change the transmission oil often; use it sparingly.

    Brakes: Front end braking has improved over previous years; rear needs work.

    Also: 2020 LA-B2V is still on



    windy in Palmdale, and it's a helluva long ride

    over 200+ miles each day

    day 2 has 35+ miles of non stop sandy whoops

    haha, no thanks this year...I don't do it unless I'm 100% prepared

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 11-27-20 at 11:24 PM.
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  24. #999

    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    new clutch and throttle cables

    both work fine, but no need to wonder if/when they will snap

    was wondering if I was routing the clutch cable wrong:



    it rubs against the frame

    but according to the oem routing diagram, it's supposed to



    also showed the linkage to the machine shop doing the motor - they will put in a timesert

    he also said:
    -the cylinder almost looks over bored. I told him it was a "plate to stock" w' a low/mid range port job and I bought the piston from Millennium. He said it fits, but there may not be a lot of clearance to the power valve. I told him that I even had millennium do a power valve disassemble/clean and inspection. But the company has changed ownership and been known to F things up. He's going to inspect it again.
    -the cases/bottom end looked fine; no red flags of fatal issues. should be back together soon

    the SoCal dirtbike group was on fire last weekend...people are all up in the desert riding all weekend

    I can't wait to get her back together, low/woods port, 13/49 gearing, 93mm sag, and riding dirt again!

    tempted to buy the pegs, a lectron, the tall seat, ASV levers/perch

    but I said no: finish the work for the parts you already bought first.

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; Yesterday at 01:44 AM.
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  25. #1000
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    Re: street legal 2-strokes

    if you can, wrap the cable with a small section of thick hose, e.g. auto PCV or similar, to protect from chafe. not sure if you have the space but a buffer there should cure it. i do this at radiator hose -to- frame contact points as well. half piece of old rad hose wedged in.

    93mm sag, so do you run MX settings? seems low for desert riding unless that linkage requires different settings? i would think you'd be out around ~110-112mm and forks dropped in clamps.

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