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typeone's Beta build (250RR)

  1. #151
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Factory Connection were down at Wareham MX last week and so I had them take a look at my rear sag. The guy got within 10' of my bike and said, you need a heavier spring on the rear shock. The rear spring is stock and I'm 220lbs, so yeah, he's right. He added a bunch of preload which made it better to ride, but I definitely have to put some money in it. Which I knew all along - the previous owner was a 160lb Jday expert rider!

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  2. #152
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    Factory Connection were down at Wareham MX last week and so I had them take a look at my rear sag. The guy got within 10' of my bike and said, you need a heavier spring on the rear shock. The rear spring is stock and I'm 220lbs, so yeah, he's right. He added a bunch of preload which made it better to ride, but I definitely have to put some money in it. Which I knew all along - the previous owner was a 160lb Jday expert rider!
    You get his contact info? I need to send out my Beta Xtrainer shock this winter. Feel free to PM me.

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    CCS/LRRS #83

  3. #153
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Scottie, send it to Steve at PlusOnePerformance in MI. he knows the Betas inside and out. i'm having him do my forks and shock over the winter.

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    Beta 200RR

  4. #154
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    Factory Connection were down at Wareham MX last week and so I had them take a look at my rear sag. The guy got within 10' of my bike and said, you need a heavier spring on the rear shock. The rear spring is stock and I'm 220lbs, so yeah, he's right. He added a bunch of preload which made it better to ride, but I definitely have to put some money in it. Which I knew all along - the previous owner was a 160lb Jday expert rider!
    Yeah man, fork springs too then, makes a HUUUUUGE difference. I've changed springs both ends on the last 4 consecutive bikes I've owned, 2 each road race and mx. Ain't cheap but if you arent 170 or close to it, or close to whoever sprung it last, it's just about a must. Nothing works right without it...

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  5. #155
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    Yeah man, fork springs too then, makes a HUUUUUGE difference. I've changed springs both ends on the last 4 consecutive bikes I've owned, 2 each road race and mx. Ain't cheap but if you arent 170 or close to it, or close to whoever sprung it last, it's just about a must. Nothing works right without it...
    I tried to write down what the guy told me, here it is:

    "Go to 5.5kg/mm shock spring & 0.49 kg/mm fork spring. Go to a higher oil level. Forks already have a different oil collar.

    Send the steering damper in too. $725-$785 for everything."

    I'll probably do it around Thanksgiving time I would think. Previous guy was 175lb & 5'11", I'm 220lbs & 6'3" wearing only a smile.

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  6. #156
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Factory connection is who I used. Don't remember what rates I have in the KTM but I'm around your weight and their recommendation worked well.

    I had mine done by one of the remote trucks at a Stimilon day in a few hours. The tech advised me to call him after I had a chance to ride it, for feedback and advice on which clickers to use to solve which problems, and how much to click em. I took him up on the offer, and have consulted with him twice with good success. I'm actually really surprised how much difference it makes to move the clickers on the KTM just a couple clicks out of the 25ish clicks available (usually the fork compression damping is what I'm messing with). I'm no R&D rider, but it's a very noticeable difference to just move it two clicks. My point is, if I had done what I would've done if I hadn't called him, which is crank one of the settings 5 clicks or so, I would've been way off, probably.

    All this stuff is so easy to play with, so effective for improvement, and so easy to go back to original settings (as long as you keep track!) that I'm amazed how many people...even some good, experienced riders...never mess with it at all and seem scared to experiment with it or try to understand it. My advice is click away, keep notes, and pays attention to the feedback the bike is giving to try to get it the best you can. Adjustments are quick and free, and you don't need to be Ryan Dungey to feel them, at all.

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  7. #157
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    +1 ... the hardest part is actually turning the clickers and taking notes. it's also good to read a few articles, or the manual, on what what direction, soft > hard, works better for what conditions. helps frame some basic brackets of adjustment. it can still be tricky at times but really only because it takes some time to evaluate when you just want to take off and ride.

    same goes for the air screw on 2Ts, a lot of riders are afraid to mess with it yet it makes such a huge difference. nothing beats a CRISP 2-stroke with snap!

    Chris, my bud Chris is running a 5.6kg and he's 190-200lbs, it seems he should have gone for a 6.0... this is on a Beta though, curious how the 5.5 works on your Honda. FC knows their shit though. they revalved and resprung Chris' CR, he loved it for woods.

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    Beta 200RR

  8. #158
    Lifer
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    I had no idea I was even supposed to screw with an "air screw" on my 2t. Learn something new every day.

    My problem with experimenting is I don't track ride. Only woods. Pulling over in the middle of the woods to change a setting isn't practical.

    I also do not set my baselines very well. Did the springs on my 200 a couple months ago and still haven't actually measured the sag. Just set the springs where I thought it looked best and ran with it. Sag for the front is all via spacers, I think. Even more difficult.

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  9. #159
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    No one I know messes with the fork preload too much, except those with external adjusters to make it easy. Even then, like shock preload, I think it's more or less a set it and forget it adjustment. I've heard of pros adding preload for mud races where they know they will be adding 20 pounds of mud to them and the bike, but other than wierd circumstances like that, not so much.

    What do you mean, "set the springs where you thought it looked best"?

    Not sure if this relates to what you are saying or not, but just FYI cu it might help, I queried the factory connection guy about the fact that even with my recommended shock spring, after I adjusted it to proper race sag, the preload collar was roughly 7/8 of the way down on the usable thread on the shock body on my KTM. He said that's not unusual. He also said the shape of that collar is kind of misleading about where it is on the threads because it has an unthreaded "skirt" which obscures view of the threads...so you could actually keep screwing it further down after it looked like it was bottomed out, if needed. After that conversation, I eyeballed the settings on some pro riders' KTMs with major suspension sponsors and their settings looked roughly similar to mine In other words, if you are in the middle of the threads by just eyeballing it, you could be way, way off and your bike will turn like a stretch chopper. I'd get on that sag setting before the next ride if I were you Colin, you might be shocked at the handling difference. It's not ideal, but it's possible to get a pretty close measurement even without a helper, by leaning a grip against a pole or wall while you are on the bike and hooking a tape measure over the axle. I did this and then had someone measure it later while I was on the bike, and it was right on.

    As far as changing settings in the woods, I agree as far as preload, and for fork height, but for clickers, why not? Takes 15 seconds and all you need is a 2" long flathead screwdriver. I'm not suggesting changing it daily or to suit changing trail conditions during a ride; more talking about using your local woods route as a testing area to dial it in. Then forget about it until you go somewhere a lot different. Only mentioning this because testing suspension isn't easy, but it makes it easiER to get the feedback on the same trail or track, 30 seconds apart, than to change settings after a ride and then judge it next time you go out.

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  10. #160
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    ^^ all good stuff! i agree, check that race (loaded) sag. very easy and makes a huge difference in handling. as Imbeek mentions, you can do it solo but best with a buddy. just faster and more accurate with a helper. bike on stand, measure axle to edge of fender, jot down ... on bike fully geared with gas, measure same exact axle to fender spot, jot down ... unloaded # - loaded # = your current sag. 100-105mm is a general rule but can be bike specific, like in my case 95-98mm.

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    Beta 200RR

  11. #161
    Lifer
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    I mean I eyeballed the preload. On the rear this means I set the collar where it was with the lighter spring. Which can't possibly be right, but seemed like a reasonable place to start.

    I did nothing to the preload spacers on the front either.

    At least I don't have springs I nail to the stops every time I hit a bump. And it doesn't hurt to land the bike anymore.

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  12. #162
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I had no idea I was even supposed to screw with an "air screw" on my 2t. Learn something new every day.
    yes, i tune mine every ride depending on temp and humidity. very easy to do and the results are quick to notice. as a general rule, you'll end up turning it out a bit on hot humid days and in on cool crisp days. out = leaner/more air ... in = richer/less air. we're only talking 1/8 - 1/4 turns.

    my process: warm up bike fully, maybe even a quick spin in the lot after warm, let the bike idle, snap the throttle a few times and see how it 'feels' / sounds ... if it's a swampy day and the bike hesitates a bit off idle when you snap, turn the air screw out a 1/4 turn and snap the throttle again a few times. adjust as necessary until it feels crisp and powerful. if it's a cold day and the bike sounds 'fluffy' or weak, do the opposite and turn the screw in a bit. you should hear a change in how the motor responds to quick twists, you want nice and clean all the way through. this is all assuming your jetting is correct to begin with (!)

    we're only adding or removing a bit of air from closed -> 1/4 throttle, doesn't seem like a large range but when you're in the woods crawling through stuff you hit this spot quite a bit. crisp response is the goal the bike will just feel like it's running 'cleaner'.

    sounds real picky but it's second nature once you get the process down. i like to install an aftermarket air screw that you can adjust with your fingers, no flat-blade screwdriver needed.

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    Beta 200RR

  13. #163
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    I found it easier and faster to just remove the shock for major changes to preload...say, if your sag is off by a half inch or more. Too slow and too much of a pain in the ass turning the collar a ton of rotations 1/12 turn at a time with a shock collar wrench or punch and hammer while the shock is on the bike. Unless you have one of those cool adjusters Clinton posted up above.

    The main reason I wouldn't bother buying one of those adjusters is, they aren't that cheap and, again, it's a setting you hopefully do once after getting the correct spring, and be done with.

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  14. #164
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    btw, forgot to add how i do basic sag checks solo ... i've mentioned it in the past but any long stick can work... i have a plastic stick from those driveway reflectors people use in the winter so the plows know the edge with reflector removed ... tape one end of the stick to the axle then create a loop on the fender to hold the top of the stick in place. use a Sharpie to mark with bike on stand then climb on and use some sort of support to hold you vertical without unloading the suspension. reach back gently and mark the stick again. not perfect but can get you in the range easily.

    if you gots bills, there are sweet sag tools like the Slacker Digital Sag Scale from Motool. def want to add one to the kit someday

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    Beta 200RR

  15. #165
    Lifer
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Illustrated version of what you're saying : How to Tune/Adjust KTM 2 Stroke Carburetors - YouTube

    Although he doesn't demonstrate what "good" setting sounds or revs like. Will break out the screwdrivers tomorrow AM. Both for suspension and A/F screw.

    Thanks for reminding me that I'm a lazy rider!

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  16. #166
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I mean I eyeballed the preload. On the rear this means I set the collar where it was with the lighter spring. Which can't possibly be right, but seemed like a reasonable place to start.
    If the past rider had the correct spring and correct sag, and you replaced it with the correct spring for you, it's possible that it's right on or close to it using that method, especially if you haven't noticed it handling like shit

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  17. #167
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbeek View Post
    I found it easier and faster to just remove the shock for major changes to preload...say, if your sag is off by a half inch or more. Too slow and too much of a pain in the ass turning the collar a ton of rotations 1/12 turn at a time with a shock collar wrench or punch and hammer while the shock is on the bike. Unless you have one of those cool adjusters Clinton posted up above.

    The main reason I wouldn't bother buying one of those adjusters is, they aren't that cheap and, again, it's a setting you hopefully do once after getting the correct spring, and be done with.
    i agree on both points ... some bikes (like mine) you can place a rag to protect the frame and use a long flat-blade screwdriver to pry against frame to twist the collar. they don't take much force to turn, even spinning down, spraying some WD on the threads can help. but if you need big changes, just takes a while. pounding the shit out of the collar sucks, they get chewed up easily.

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    Beta 200RR

  18. #168
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Illustrated version of what you're saying : How to Tune/Adjust KTM 2 Stroke Carburetors - YouTube

    Although he doesn't demonstrate what "good" setting sounds or revs like. Will break out the screwdrivers tomorrow AM. Both for suspension and A/F screw.

    Thanks for reminding me that I'm a lazy rider!
    thanks for reminding me that the internet HAZ ALL THE INFOZ i should have just looked for a link. hahaa. you'll get a feel for what's better or worse over time, bike will either be sorta blubbery/hesitant off idle or fluffy/weak ... difficult with text, i know.

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    Beta 200RR

  19. #169
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    man, what a sweet day in the West ... 3hrs , 33mi , 2,355 ft peak , mint fall weather ... some of the fallen leaves were like electric color, so nice ... we rode from Balance Rock SP > Brodie Mtn Rd > Bates Memorial SP > Balance

    my knees are f'in shot the RR felt so, sooo good today ... wish i took a few better pics of the views but ... busy



    tons of grip on the ledge but was interesting that the lower stuff had tiny bits of moss growing from those brief storms last week


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    Last edited by typeone; 12-26-17 at 03:38 PM.
    Beta 200RR

  20. #170
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    BTW, is there a way to edit the title of this thread ? she is no longer new , would rather just record our time together at this point what a fucking motor , goddamn . three years later and i still can't believe how awesome this bike runs . just . will . not . stall .

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    Beta 200RR

  21. #171
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    few status updates for the log.. .

    REBUILD
    i've got about 120hrs on the RR now, thinking about whether to do a top end over the winter or not since my season will come to a close in the next month or so. the manual specs piston + ring replacement at 60hrs i'm not racing it full time and many owners (racers even) replace the top end at 160-180hrs, reporting that everything looked great upon teardown. if i go one more season, that should put me right at the ~160hr mark (~40hrs / season). wish i didn't slack on doing a compression test to compare spankin new vs now but, feel wise, the bike is perfect. maybe i'll do a compression test now then compare mid season in '17 :shrug: i've read some owners have gone over 200hrs on the top end and still had no issues but metal fatigue certainly becomes a questionmark.

    FUELING
    after i had success ditching the race gas mix (see previous pipe bang issues) i've been running straight 93 and have since dropped to 89 without issue... pretty sure i can get away with straight 87 and not have any knock, even with the S3 high-comp head. pretty sweet. also been toying with 40:1 vs 50:1 to see if i feel a power or jetting difference running with the assumption that more oil = better seal = slightly mo powa. it's kinda difficult to evaluate though since the cool, crisp air always makes machines happy 'n snappy. side note on that topic: used to love ripping around in my old '66 912 during this time of year. she loved to gulp that cold air on runs up 122. miss it.

    FRESH BITS
    trying out P3s new Motoflex skid plate. it's more stout than the stocker and provides a little more protection riding higher at the clutch/waterpump area, front of the frame and ignition side. i like that underneath it's formed inward a bit so you're sliding on the rails rather than a full, flat bottom. i did drill a few drain holes to let the muck exit since i never need to remove with the oil drain on the side of the motor. one thing that's a tiny bummer is because the plate rides high in front of the frame, my bent pipe is pushing against it causing an annoying buzzing/vibration sound and looks like it may have melted and rubbed away a spot in that location already. i'll prob just dent the pipe a bit right there so it clears.







    SNEAKERS
    the new Motoz Arena Hybrid arrived as well, tread looks very similar to the Tractionator with the center blocks a little bit more narrow. super curious how the soft center compound will feel on the slick fall terrain we're about to recieve. prob spoon it on later this week. new tires always feel great, we'll see if it gets that 'hard' feeling the other Motoz experience as they age. the current Tractionator I/T is working really well still but it's been super dry. not sure if Motoz has specs on weight but the Arena is supposed to be lighter with the same stiff sidewall benefit. you can feel the softer middle vs sides with your hand. dig it.



    TO REPLACE
    to date the bike has been cheap to maintain, only real dough spent has been on gas, oil, tires and doodads. the biggest wear item so far has been the rear brake pads and disc. pads were toast a few weeks back and the disc is pretty worn. i should have really replaced both but decided to go with some cheap Tusk carbon pads for now. assumed they would wear in more quickly and form to the concaved disc shape working great last few rides. i'll upgrade to the Dirt Tricks disc over the winter along with new pads.

    the shift lever is getting a little annoying. the tip, knurling on it and where it mounts to the lever have worn away causing missed shifts. it's pointing forward more and isn't grippy. i'll upgrade over the winter to a Hammerhead or something to get grip and stability back.

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    Last edited by typeone; 12-26-17 at 03:38 PM.
    Beta 200RR

  22. #172
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)



    X find the time to wash the thing
    X create it's nest indoors (right in my office)
    . tear it down to frame
    X send boingers to Michigan Motoworx (revalve + refresh front, refresh rear)
    X top end rebuild
    X inspect replace reeds
    . oversized clutch slave from the 350RR Racing model
    X fresh front pads
    . fresh rear disc + pads
    X attempt to seal pipe at header
    X snip OEM silencer -3+ inches (or go PC shorty)
    X fresh grips
    X Motoseat gripper cover
    X fresh rear sneaker (Tractionator S/T)
    X inspect / regrease as needed
    X fresh fluids all around


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    Last edited by typeone; 12-26-17 at 03:39 PM.
    Beta 200RR

  23. #173
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Fuck...now I gotta search my iTunes library and find out what record/song has that sample in it.
    Any ideas offhand?

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  24. #174
    Lifer
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    If I had that sitting in my "office" I would get even less work done than I do now.

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  25. #175
    Lifer typeone's Avatar
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    re: typeone's Beta build (250RR)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Fuck...now I gotta search my iTunes library and find out what record/song has that sample in it.
    Any ideas offhand?
    hmm, that could be many, many but... maybe DJ Shadow? last (double) track of Entroducing. (what a great fucking record, btw.)

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    Beta 200RR

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