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2015 Track Days Postings

  1. #51
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    You're assuming you have to pay the $1000 up front vs $83/month over the year following the track days. Not a chance in hell it will ever work like that, since the TD orgs put down deposits for the tracks in advance. It is bad enough for them to collect a few weeks prior to each event. The real comparison is $200 per day over the track season vs $83 per month the year prior to the track season.

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  2. #52
    got milk? drinkingmymilk's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Quote Originally Posted by TTD View Post
    And obviously on my end (the trackday provider) - we can offer a lower price when paid up front as that lets us use your payments for all the upfront costs (deposits, insurance, etc)
    Agreed, Not to mention the cost of inflation if we REAALLY wanna go off the deep end here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    You're assuming you have to pay the $1000 up front vs $83/month over the year following the track days. Not a chance in hell it will ever work like that, since the TD orgs put down deposits for the tracks in advance. It is bad enough for them to collect a few weeks prior to each event. The real comparison is $200 per day over the track season vs $83 per month the year prior to the track season.
    That's crazy, no one is saying to pay in the year following. Start it up in November with a $160 buy in, then $83 per month until October 2015. You can easily make this work with a rule that says "must be paid in full by last track day credit used." Following season, do the same but start it up in October with a $83 payment due on day one.

    I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm just saying it could work. I'm just saying it would get someone like me who gives $175 to Dave on BoRn and $175 to Nesr and buys another day from someone second hand for around $200 to say fuck hunting for deals, Track day company, heres my money.

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    Last edited by drinkingmymilk; 10-01-14 at 10:39 AM.

  3. #53
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Oops, I think I misunderstood. So the idea would be $83/month, for example, for January 2015-December 2015 as payment for the 5 TDs run in the summer of 2015. Maybe that would work better for the TD orgs?

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  4. #54
    got milk? drinkingmymilk's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    You beat me while I was editing, but bassically. I'd even say start it in October/November because it would keep risk of people finishing days in October then canceling their cards.

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  5. #55

    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    I was going to go searching for old threads because all of these sounds very familiar... maybe 3 to 6 years back?

    Then again, that seems how most forum topics are.

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    Tony
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  6. #56
    Lifer
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    You people make me feel financially responsible sometimes.

    Anyway. Was a helluva good year running TTDs and Penguins. Hope 2015 is just as fun.

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  7. #57
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    I put it into Excel just for fun, assuming 2% annual interest is available and you are comparing paying $83.3/month Oct-Sep vs $200 in each of May-September, the PV at the beginning comes out almost the same (within 6 bucks). I have no idea what it would cost the TD org to implement the idea, but if we assume no cost, it would certainly be a good idea to offer it.

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  8. #58
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Is the Fishtail bare bones thing going to occur more often next year?


    My wishlist for trackdays though it probably doesn't matter a bit to anyone:

    -Regular reliable announcements for sessions starting/stopping: Red flags happen mid-session and it only takes 10 seconds to fire up the PA to settle any confusion on who is going out next/now. Going via the clock is a perfect system for a perfect world with perfect riders completing perfect sessions. There should never be any confusion in the pits. Yet every trackday I go to, there always is when red flags go out. Some orgs are much better than others at this: example being TTD in Thompson July 21st (?). Someone ALWAYS announced on the PA. Customers aren't staff, they need to be told what to do and when. The most frustrating thing in the world is to realize that YOUR session is on track right now while you are sitting there confused in the pits.

    -15 minute sessions: In the 15 minute sessions, two laps for warming up your tires, then 8 laps IF the session isn't red flagged. That's not enough IMO. Yes, smaller groups but at the cost of track time. That's going off of 1:30 laps at Thompson or Loudon which are reasonable trackday times. Doing the math, 7 15 minutes sessions = 105 minutes on track. 7 20 minute sessions is 140 minutes. For me, I'd rather spend the extra 1/4 of the time on track in traffic or trying to pass an extra few riders than spending that time sitting in the pits.

    -Stopping for lunch vs not: No issue for me either way. But, if you do shut down for lunch, that should mean an extra session at the end of the day. 8 sessions total is the magic number for all you can eat buffet making sure everyone is full and happy. Tired by session 6? EAT MORE VEGETABLE! Or don't, my favorite sessions are at the end of the day when the numbers are dwindling

    -Guest instructors/special instruction: Have them if you want, but don't ask all other riders to yield to them all day. We are paying to be there, they are being paid to. They should yield to us. Sorry, but the appeal of riding on track with a world champ wears off the first time you are stuck behind them and their $$$$$ students for an entire lap. 1 on 1? Fine, but once again, don't ask everyone else to change how they ride because a single rider opened their wallet more than everyone else. Obviously being courteous and not breaking up the pair is part of proper etiquette; changing the rules to make groups like that a rolling roadblock is another story.

    -Memberships: Doesn't work well for my model. Could change if one organization did all the things listed above. Until one does (fat chance), I am brand agnostic. Dates/tracks/price matter more than who is running the show, in that order. As I mentioned earlier, if there was a website like Liftopia (pick your mountain, pick your date, here is the price), then it would be easier. Until then, seeing listings of trackdays, getting close enough to find out if that date is going to be available(personally, not space/trackday org wise), then check to see if it's sold out, then buy is the method I have to use. The cheaper it is, the greater likelihood of figuring out a way to make it. BOMO/Tony/Fishtail/LAPS all did this once or twice in the past. Minimal instruction/extras, just a cheap trackday with a ton of track time. That's my preferred style. I guess cheap is an ever changing number, but it seems that the magic figure is about $180 for that type of day now.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 10-01-14 at 01:30 PM.
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  9. #59
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    Oops, I think I misunderstood. So the idea would be $83/month, for example, for January 2015-December 2015 as payment for the 5 TDs run in the summer of 2015. Maybe that would work better for the TD orgs?
    BOMO did exactly this. I think it was $75 a month. I did it for a year. Loved it since I had a better ability to take a day off 3 months ahead of time back then.

    Apparently somewhere down the line something went wrong and they are out of the game now. Not thinking it was directly related to that since TTD does a similar (but up front) membership model.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 10-01-14 at 11:11 AM.
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  10. #60
    its in my blood caloots's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    id love to buy a membership if it would save me money. but
    1. id have to argue with the financial officer.. she can find a 1000000 things that "we" could spend that on... great.
    2. and most important.. with my luck.. if I spend it up front, ill crash on the 1st day and miss the rest of the year.. membership down the drain.. HAHAHAHA

    for the record.. if i had the money and didnt have to argue about it, id lov to get a membership and do that many trakdays..
    right now im lucky if I get to do 3 . maybe 4 if I can score an auction.

    unless someone wants to buy me one in return for car labor.. hint hint.

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  11. #61
    Senior Member bassomatic's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Tony,
    I don't now if track rental costs play a factor, but I definitely like the two day deals on Fri/Sat a LOT more than Sun/Monday. Any chance of getting more of them?

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  12. #62
    Lifer
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    I can get down with most of Iglu's list.

    Fortunately, I have never been asked to change how I ride or yield to an instructor. That's 'tarded, and not in the converted dirt-bike way.

    Who the hell does 10 minute sessions? That blows. I am probably spoiled with the 20 minute sessions TTD usually runs at NHMS and find the 15 minute sessions a little short.

    It makes sense that buying in bulk in advance presents a better value than buying one at a time. If you cannot use the bulk, well, that doesn't help you and you can't really be helped. The cost is going to be higher for you. Pretty universal.

    The bottom line is that track days are 'spensive and not getting any cheaper.

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  13. #63
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    I meant 15 vs 20. My bad. Mind fart this morning. It's still a really short time once you factor in the overhead of getting out onto the track and getting the tires up to temp. Fixed the math. Something didn't seem right when I first wrote it but my feeling is the same.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 10-01-14 at 01:33 PM.
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  14. #64
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post

    The bottom line is that track days are 'spensive and not getting any cheaper.
    Exactly. And with 5 tracks available shortly, that shouldn't be the case. Theoretically, there should be more weekend trackdays available now that all the car orgs will have more options for booking locations just like the bike orgs do. Therefore, cost for weekend rentals should go down. Weekend or weekday price would seem to be a completely market driven difference in price with no difference in running it for the track.

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    Last edited by TheIglu; 10-01-14 at 01:35 PM.
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  15. #65
    got milk? drinkingmymilk's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Fortunately, I have never been asked to change how I ride or yield to an instructor. That's 'tarded, and not in the converted dirt-bike way.
    .
    I was once. I had no idea it was a one on one thing and jumped between them for what I thought was the best follow the leader session of all time at Thompson.

    In my defence it was the second session of the day. They came out in the same group of 4 as me and I just followed for a couple laps until I jumped between them hoping the "tow" would get a bit quicker. I learned more about the line there they I could of ever hoped for. Highly recomended.

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  16. #66
    Lifer
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    That is not what Clayton meant. But I like your style man.

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  17. #67
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    No, not what I meant at all. But thanks for the laugh, that type of instruction is always recommended and welcome in my book. It's like driving real close to a big rig. Free gas savings!

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  18. #68
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    -15 minute sessions: In the 15 minute sessions, two laps for warming up your tires, then 8 laps IF the session isn't red flagged. That's not enough IMO. Yes, smaller groups but at the cost of track time. That's going off of 1:30 laps at Thompson or Loudon which are reasonable trackday times. Doing the math, 7 15 minutes sessions = 105 minutes on track. 7 20 minute sessions is 140 minutes. For me, I'd rather spend the extra 1/4 of the time on track in traffic or trying to pass an extra few riders than spending that time sitting in the pits.
    I can't stand the 15 minute sessions, for the same reasons you mention, and then some. 2 laps to warm things up, and 5, maybe 6 good laps if nothing happens, and you catch the checkered flag at the tail end. There's no time to get in a rhythm.

    The best trackday I've been to in years, was last week. The TTD/Razee day at Thompson. It was a perfect day, easy on the pocket, relaxed environment, limited number of people, and 20 minute sessions

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  19. #69

    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    And it was on a Tuesday, Mark. If I thought I could fill them regularly, I would consider many more at the lower price.

    Most have said mid week days are tough.

    One problem with longer sessions is more bikes per group, and a wider speed differential... Potentially leading to trains and more dangerous passes.

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    Tony
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  20. #70
    its in my blood caloots's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    I'll do weekdays all the time if it means lower prices

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  21. #71
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Quote Originally Posted by TTD View Post
    And it was on a Tuesday, Mark. If I thought I could fill them regularly, I would consider many more at the lower price.

    Most have said mid week days are tough.

    One problem with longer sessions is more bikes per group, and a wider speed differential... Potentially leading to trains and more dangerous passes.
    I may be in the minority here, but any weekday is all the same to me. Taking a day off on Monday or Friday, vs Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday makes no difference, for me anyways. I say that because Thompson is local to me, and even NHMS is a reasonable distance for single week days. Tracks like NY and NJ, I would agree that a Monday or Friday combo would be a better

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  22. #72

    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    Mid week would work for me as well

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  23. #73
    Lifer backinthesaddle's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    A friend of mine did his first ever day last tues and three of his coworkers took day off just to watch him. Probably extreme example but now they all want to do track days.

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  24. #74
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Track Days Postings

    I, for one, can really only do Mondays and Fridays.

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  25. #75
    xxaarraa
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    Aah, Tony is right, these topics are on a recurring loop, seem to make a come back every so often!

    I have only ridden with Penguin maybe 4 times, all at NHMS. Very well run, but I was running novice back then, so I was more concerned with keeping the bike upright and not being startled by bikes buzzing by me, so I can't say I loved it.

    I have ridden with TTD 5 times. Very professional crew (Tony is always on top of his email and responsive), friendly, they all seem to have a sense of humor. But the membership didn't do anything for me, since being a member doesn't guarantee you a spot (you have to sign-up/wait list just like everyone else) and price of track day wasn't constant even with a membership. I know TTD was having difficulties with NYST this year, but if the price of each day 'floats' with the market condition, the NPV on the upfront membership cost doesn't hold up. Say you do a fixed number of days a year, the NPV of $2000 paid just before track days throughout the year is the same to me as $1500 with 30% of it paid up front. The monetary value of the flexibility to choose tracks/providers just in time is worth more than the savings, to some people.

    NYST. Their coaching staff is a bit of a joke, I have actually talked to Greg about it. But the family is very nice and hospitable. David in particular treats everyone very warmly. The track is far and away the BEST. My biggest draw is weekend track days - I am not taking up valuable vacation time for my hobby. Price is constant, no upfront costs. I ended up doing 18 days there this year and loved every one of them.

    TPM - I ran a few days with them at NYST. One of their coaches was awesome and worked with me a lot. Very crowded, but was well run.

    Bomo. Never ran with them. But I know Degsy in a personal capacity and he's a genuine guy whose been a good friend. Loaned me a bike once so I wouldn't miss a track day, among other things.

    Most of all, my enjoyment and perception of track day orgs seemed to be more of a function of my riding evolution more so than the actual org/setup. As I gradually moved through novice/intermediate/expert, I started enjoying track-time in itself and the actual 'host' didn't seem to matter as much.

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    Last edited by xxaarraa; 10-03-14 at 09:53 AM.

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