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An addiction begins...

  1. #1
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    An addiction begins...

    After picking up a race prepped '05 CBR600RR several weeks ago I made it to my first track day last Friday at NHMS with Penguin Racing School. Found myself a cheap used suit, ponied up for a new set of Sidi's since no one wants some else's athletes foot and arrived Thursday night to camp at the track and be ready for 7 am registration and tech.

    After a short classroom intro we head out for first session. First time out is follow the leader with 3 or 4 students behind each instructor. Slow pace but they show us the line and I shake the jitters by the end of the first lap. Next session we have 3 follow the leader laps and they turn us lose. I have a decent idea of the line and by the end of the session I'm pushing the bike a bit and manage to pass a few riders before the session is up.

    3rd session is open from the start and I've had a few reference points suggested to me. I start towards the rear of our 18 rider group and by the end of the 2nd lap I'm up front following a guy on a race prepped SV who's had a number of days under his belt. His lines and corner speed are a bit better than mine but I keep it tight with my horsepower advantage. Definitely go to school a bit on the line and start picking up more reference points.

    Have a lunch break for an hour, sit and talk with Jim and Frenchy and get a few more suggestions on reference points. Frenchy comes out with me for the next session and follows me for half then I follow him. Get some good pointers and feed back I try and apply for the rest of the day. Starts raining during the session and we end up with a downpour before the 5th starts.

    Go out for 5th and the track is soaked. The guy on the SV and I start at the front and at this point are the only 2 willing to push the pace in the rain. 2nd lap I blow the line in turn 2 and he makes a nice pass on me entering the back straight. He brakes way late and blows turn 3, we're side by side in 4 and he gets a bit ham fisted, fishtails a few times and high sides pretty hard. He and his bike were fine but it turns out that was the last lap he's willing to turn that day.

    The final 2 sessions I don't have anyone to race but continue to push the pace in the rain and end up turning some real nice laps. Pass some dudes, lap some dudes, big grins. Had a lot of situations where the bike got real squirrelly driving out of corners and had a couple of real nice tank slappers. Kept my cool and rode through the rough parts and learned a whole lot about traction in the rain. The bike REALLY needs a steering stabilizer, I'll be taking care of that soon. Also on the hunt for a spare set of wheels so I can get a set of rain tires.

    Had a number of instructors who were very complimentary of my riding and asked when I'd be coming back to get my race license. Nothing like a good ego boost at the end of the day, so....Plan for the upcoming season; doing a 2 day track day event at New York Safety Track this weekend. After that June 18th and 19th is another 2 day event with Penguin where I'll test for my novice license and hopefully I'll then be eligible to ride the novice races that are available that weekend. Understand there isn't much during the Classic. Maybe a bit too soon but I'm the full retard kind of guy so here we go.

    Really great to get some solid feedback from the instructors and the guys in Garage 10N and I'm looking forward to soaking up all they have to put down in the future. I'll have some pictures to post from last weekend when they're made available and plan on mounting my gopro for the next track day.

    When you see this thing lugging around the track feel free to kick me in the ass on the way by and tell me to hurry the fück up:
    An addiction begins...-imageuploadedbytapatalk1400638808-388742-jpg

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    Last edited by loudbeard; 05-20-14 at 09:20 PM.
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  2. #2
    Member dougie's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Congrats! I'll see ya at NYST this weekend, look for a red/white/blue gixxer and say hi

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  3. #3

    Re: An addiction begins...

    Welcome. And you can kiss you bank account and any vacation you were gonna take goodbye

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and it will be worth it

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  4. #4
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    An addiction begins...

    Fortunately (or unfortunately) I'm no stranger to expensive hobbies, I've been building and breaking jeeps for years.

    See y'all at NYST, I'll be the one with the ridiculously elaborate camp site. Might even bring the smoker for this trip....

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  5. #5
    Posting Freak MaRce1o's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Damn i would had gone in the rain with you on DOTs

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  6. #6
    Fast is contagious JettaJayGLS's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Great to see you got on the track this year! I hope I can go out there and shake it up a bit at least once this season. Also, I believe you bought Trevor's old bike? His dad is a damn magician, you got some rock solid equipment.

    I will say, your track day write-up sounds like a race report...that isn't really a good thing.

    There is no need to be side by side in 4, your first time on the track, in the wet.

    Believe me, I friggen loved going fast at track days and I sure as hell did, but just be careful.

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  7. #7
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    I hear recognizing you have a problem is the first step to getting completely carried away with it. And yeah, TD's for learning skills and having fun, races for racing.

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  8. #8
    Lifer nt650hawk's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Another one Addicted to Track Crack. Great to hear.

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  9. #9
    I pick things up.... mzdagrl's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Quote Originally Posted by JettaJayGLS View Post
    I will say, your track day write-up sounds like a race report...that isn't really a good thing.

    There is no need to be side by side in 4, your first time on the track, in the wet.

    This. Track days are for building skills and pushing limits. Get your license if you want to "race someone." Sounds like you are heading that route, so good for you, but the vast majority of people at track days are not there to "win". There is no trophy.

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  10. #10
    Banned Rambunctous's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    I have trouble at trackdays. Someone would pass me and I have to go after them. I was the same on the street. (It was lots of fun smoking the Joe Rocket 600 crowd with my 72 beemer in the twisties). Nice race oops trackday report.

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  11. #11
    Fast is contagious JettaJayGLS's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctous View Post
    I have trouble at trackdays. Someone would pass me and I have to go after them. I was the same on the street. (It was lots of fun smoking the Joe Rocket 600 crowd with my 72 beemer in the twisties). Nice race oops trackday report.
    Agreed, I completely understand what's going on and the competetiveness. Butttt, there are ways and places to do it at trackdays (and races too). Get em at what you and your bike is good at. If getting held up by an SV on your 600, pass em on the straights. On my motard I passed big bikes on the brakes effortlessly. If you're held up on a 600 by an equally talented 600, pit in and head back out or work on other stuff.

    Not trying to thrash Duncan at all, just sharing information to benefit all.

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  12. #12
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    I agree with what you're saying Jay, no offense taken. Should have been a bit more clear on that situation, I probably made it sound like we were closer than we were. When he overshot 3 and tried to power through 4 he was at least 10 feet outside of the line. I had a good drive out of 3 and was well in the line through 4. It really wasn't that close, I was more illustrating the point that he went down next to me.

    He was also the only rider I ever get close with at any point. It was much more a situation of both of us testing out limits and pushing one another rather than racing each other hard. I'm probably just a bit amped up reading everyone's race reports from last weekends.

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  13. #13
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    An addiction begins...

    As mentioned earlier, I have a tendency to go full retard. Took a ride up to NH today and picked up Berg's trailer. He was nice enough to get my name across the front An addiction begins...
    An addiction begins...-imageuploadedbytapatalk1400698475-881724-jpg

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  14. #14
    Fast is contagious JettaJayGLS's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    I think you've officially passed Savas as the #1 buyer of EVERYTHING on NESR!

    Nice looking trailer, and as I've said before, beautiful truck pulling it.

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    A man of many names...Jay, Gennaro, Gerry, etc.

  15. #15

    Re: An addiction begins...

    Welcome to the track! I would question the part about your bike needing a steering stabilizer when you were riding in the rain.

    The stabilizer is most important when the front end goes light or airborne, and then lands slightly off center. The stabilizer will resist the oscillations that might occur.

    In the rain, you rarely are pulling wheelies and getting the front end super light - and you want very little interference with the steering. You need to let it do it's thing as all that little wiggling is the bikes way to keep itself upright. Being tight on the bars is the same as a too tight stabilizer.... nothing good will come of it.

    Having said that, I agree you need a stabilizer on that bike... but not because of the wiggling I assume you were getting in the wet.

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  16. #16
    Bikeless in Blackstone The Snowman's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    BTW, there are the same number of novice races at the Classic than there are at all other LRRS events.

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  17. #17
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    On the topic of over-competitiveness at track days- I have noticed that my riding gets super sketchy when I start thinking about other riders too much. Especially right after getting passed, when I feel that flash of competitive anger. If I focus on the other rider, I end up butchering my lines and going slower than if I were out there alone. Its hard to learn much when you are riding far beyond your abilities trying to hang with a faster rider. Much better to push your brake markers back, look for new reference points, sharpen your turn-ins, try carrying more corner speed, etc on your own terms rather than white-knuckling it behind a fast guy and barely staying on the track.

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  18. #18
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    I find the opposite. I've ridden best at track days (and racing) when chasing a faster bike or rider. If you are white knuckling it doing so, I don't think you are approaching track riding the same way I do.

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  19. #19
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    I find the opposite. I've ridden best at track days (and racing) when chasing a faster bike or rider. If you are white knuckling it doing so, I don't think you are approaching track riding the same way I do.
    I would imagine experience has something to do with this as well.

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  20. #20
    Bikeless in Blackstone The Snowman's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    I would imagine experience has something to do with this as well.
    Yes it does. I usually stay extremely calm while riding during a track day. (Unless my bike is trying to buck me off it.) That's why the incident that happened on 5/12 in front of Pete was manageable because I was calm and thought things through when they happened. (Read the God of False Neutrals thread for details)

    As others have stated, track days are for honing your skills, not trying to race another rider, especially in the rain.

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  21. #21
    Get Weird! maxim_X's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    Glad you had fun. It only gets better.

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  22. #22
    Junior Member tonupdamien's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    I was there that Friday as well. On my Thruxton it was pretty sketchy during the downpour, but tons of fun! You were definitely ripping it up out there. Prob. see you at another Penguin event in the future.

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  23. #23
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    I'll try and make this writeup sound more track day-ish than like a race report so as not to upset the natives.

    Be warned- long read

    First, NYST is AWESOME!! The track was amazing and had great flow from start to finish in both directions. The facilities are also nice, and of course the staff was very helpful and friendly. Don't know how stuff is going with the locals but I really hope we can continue to ride well into the future.

    The folks at TTD put on a great event last weekend! The instructors were really excellent and thanks to the time they invest in their students I was able to make some really great progress this weekend. The track walk was a really helpful experience, particularly on a surface pristine surface like NYST where reference points can be a bit tough to come by.

    I registered for Intermediate but ended up starting Sunday in the Red group as I fell into the "never rode this track before" category. Ken, John, and Carrie were leading the group and were really excellent both on the track and in the classroom. I got a pretty quick read on the track and was turning some (relatively) quick laps and during the 2nd session touched a knee down. Wow! what an amazing/funny feeling that is the first time it happens!! I touched down in 13, then promptly got down and dragged it all the way through 15 (uptown.) By session 3 I was down through most of the hard left handers (1, 13, 15, 18) and moving pretty well around the track. After speaking with John who I followed and then followed me during session 3, we decided it was time for a bump to Yellow group.

    I was having a bit of trouble riding fast from 6 all the way to 12. I'd crest wheelie hill and shortly hit the rev limiter after but didn't feel comfortable hitting an upshift when I thought I'd need to downshift right after entering 8. Turns out that back section (8 - 11) is a hell of a lot faster than I was riding it. After a good classroom following session 4 I took Tony's advice and made my upshift before 6 and carried it all the way through the fast section. Before I knew it I was near wide open in 3rd gear dragging knee through 10.

    More troubles...I felt really uncomfortable turning right aggressively. I was comfortable and just about any lean angle on my left but by the end of the day only managed 3 brief touchdowns on my right side plus a toe drag. I spoke to Adam and Steve who were instructing Yellow group and got a few specifics to focus on in terms of body position:
    A.) drop inside elbow
    B.) hold throttle like a screwdriver
    C.) rest outside forearm on the side of the gas tank
    I didn't make it happen during the last 2 sessions but I had some stuff to work on for day 2. I got fairly tired during session 6, then while following an instructor during session 7 I realized (after blowing a line in 6) that I was getting really mentally tired and overshot my line because I was target fixated on my tow. Time to get off the track.
    Monday Tony decides to switch it up and run downtown. I think this is awesome because it provides opportunity for me to give my right turns a workout. Session 1 is follow the leader for 5 laps. I already have a good idea of the line from the previous night's track walk but it's good to do it at a bit of speed. Things start clicking. Session 2 is open and on my 2nd lap I get solid right knee down in 15 and instantly feel comfortable turning that direction. I don't drag again until turn 1 entering the front straight but it's game on from here. By the end of session 2 I'm comfortable enough turning right I'm getting through the fast right handers with knee down and no more doubts about stability at that lean angle. Turns out all I needed (outside of some great coaching!) was an opportunity to turn right a bunch.

    Session 3 - * Spoiler alert * this section may read a bit like a race report.
    As most of you are familiar, at TTD's they start the sessions sending a group of 5, waiting about 20 seconds, sending another group of 5, and so on. I end up starting near the rear of the 3rd group and start picking my way through. I get through the 3rd, catch up to the 2nd group, get through them, then catch the 1st group. I'm feeling really comfortable and feel like my lines are crisp and on target. I've found about 4 really good passing sections throughout the track and by the time I get behind the 3rd rider in the 1st group I can smell the open track ahead of me. I catch the 3rd guy entering turn 6. I've made a few outside passes here today already so I turn in the outside line, drop a knee and get a good drive through the corner. As we're approaching 2nd apex I notice the other rider is exiting early, getting lose on his line, and we're likely going to get together around my exit point. The only good solution I saw at this point was to open the throttle a bit more as I was already carrying a lot more corner speed. Well my rear wheel spins and I end up low siding 3/4 of the way through 6. I stayed low sliding across the pavement but as soon as I hit the (soft) grass my shoulder digs in and I get turned for a flip. As I come to rest I see my bike still doing cartwheels I scan quickly to make sure I didn't cause a second incident and get up and signal to the corner worker I'm all good. Gear did it's job and I lug the bike back around to the pit area when the session closes.

    Crash analysis: I'm not sure if this is the case but I feel like my mistake wasn't in the turn itself, rather choosing to make that pass in the first place. I guess what I'm saying is my other 2 options were:
    A.) do nothing and risk a collision with another rider
    B.) Chop throttle, stand the bike up into an area with no run off at ~80 mph
    I feel like I'd accept the low side given the other 2 options. As of now, and here's where the rest of you come in, I think the mistake was poor track management on my part. The reality is I could have held off making that pass until the corner exit, caught the next 2 riders entering turn 3, and made the pass for open track by the front straight. I was impatient and overly confident in my new found abilities and I wanted to make a hero pass that certainly could have waited. I was definitely trying to turn some quick laps so I could get a bump up to the Blue/Black group. I found a lot of riders in the Yellow group to be unpredictable, take erratic lines, then throttle jockey down the front straight. I felt like I'd be able to learn a lot more getting into a group with more experienced, faster riders rather trying to dodge around a slower group and be forced into making lots of passes to ride at the pace I wanted.

    So fire away with your criticisms, I like the constructive ones. Sharpen your pitchforks and get your torches if you must, but at least try and stay on topic.

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  24. #24
    Fast is contagious JettaJayGLS's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    First off, glad you are okay. Hopefully you can piece the bike back together!

    I've noticed a few things in my prior experience.

    As a track day rider, no one wants to pass on the inside. This is 1, due to the very appropriate rules. 2, because they do not want to crash and take a rider out while passing. This leaves passing on the outside as the only other viable option to get round someone in a corner. Sadly, NEWER RIDERS GET SPOOKED REAL EASILY WHEN GETTING PASSED. In the yellow group especially, there are a lot of newer riders with a huge variety of experience. They hear the bike on the outside, see it in there peripherals coming around, start to focus on it it, and their line deviates directly towards the passing bike. Sounds like this is what happened to you.

    One fix for this is to wait until you KNOW the pass will happen quickly and easily. I hated passing on the outside of the bowl as it takes a long time to go the long way around and you are leaned over next to the other rider for a substantial amount of time. Comparatively, newer riders are much quicker in the bowl than they are in 9, so I would wait until 9 where I felt much stronger compared to the other riders on the track. Of even easier, between 10 and 11 where I could make the pass with the bikes pretty much straight up and down.

    I don't know the specifics of that corner or the New York track at all, just my observations.

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  25. #25
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: An addiction begins...

    You're a smart guy. Now you know what getting closer to crashing feels like. You could sense it coming.

    Next time you feel that, take a minute to think about everything and reign it back in. You'll avoid the next crash because you'll wait 3 more corners.

    It all comes with experience, patience and learning how to go fast - slowly. You didn't need to pass that guy, you wanted to.

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