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Which bike to learn on?

  1. #1

    Which bike to learn on?

    Hi all,

    Seeking some advice from the forum on how to best begin my track riding career. I'm signed up for the Penguin 2-day school this June, and debating riding my Ducati 848 versus renting a Ninja 300/650. The two things I'm hoping to get out of the experience are a beginning proficiency of track riding (which may potentially lead to racing in the future) and to safely explore the performance envelope of my Ducati in order to be a safer rider on the street.

    Reason for asking is that I had a somewhat similar experience in the past with cars: did several track days in my far-too-fast daily driver, with definitely made me a lot safer & more competent on the street, but I learned way more about being being on the track by racing a Mazda Miata. Ignoring the financial side of this decision, I see two lines of thinking:

    1. Ninja - A lighter, lower-power Ninja is a far better learning tool and will get me up the curve faster towards proficiency on the track, and potentially future racing. Will those skills transfer into being a more competent Ducati rider on the street?

    2. Ducati - It's important to have some experience actually getting the performance out of a bike I ride frequently on the street. By "performance" I mean feeling proficient that I can corner or brake nearly to the bikes limits in order to avoid a collision. I have no interest in being the fastest guy up the twisties.

    Would be great to get the input from those more experienced!

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  2. #2
    Lifer
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    Quote Originally Posted by WHB View Post
    Will those skills transfer into being a more competent Ducati rider on the street?
    The answer is unequivocally yes. Without a doubt. Hell yes. Fuck yes. Very much yes.

    My situation is the opposite; my track day toy has a helluvalot more sport in it than my street ride. But I will say beyond a shadow of doubt that the skills transfer. Others I street ride with have commented on the changes in my riding. I can feel it.

    The only issue I've run into is that I am FAR FAR more comfortable on my street bike than the track day toy. The track toy is a legitimate sport-bike with clip-ons and rearsets. The ergonomics are aggressive, the brakes are sharp and powerful, and the suspension is (fairly) tight. Meanwhile the street bike is none of those things. I'm used to riding cheap, upright bikes clad with not-so-sporty rubber. The sport bike is a whole new animal for me. I wish I could street ride it on occasion just to be more comfortable on it. Every track day I need a session or two to figure the damned thing out again.

    You may learn more on a lower-powered rental that requires you carry corner speed and focus on body position and all that.
    Or you may learn more trying those skills on something you have more seat time on.

    Good luck, enjoy.

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  3. #3
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    The best riders in the world all learned on smaller machinery. There is a reason. Even Colin Edwards' boot camp is performed on tiny little TTR-225s. You will learn a lot on the 848, but more on the 300.

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  4. #4
    Have you seen my baseball GingahNinjah's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    I have to agree with Paul above.. i spent the first half of my first racing/trackday season last year on an EX500 and it definately taught me alot about carrying corner speed and allowed me to push my limits without having to worry too much about the throttle and potentially highsiding and destroying a fast expensive bike. I have definately noticed a difference on the street on my ZX6R too in both confidence and handling and a greater understanding of how it all works that you just cant get from solely street riding

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    Posting Freak timmyho414's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    I'm going to say something a little different. You said you want to explore the performance of your Ducati. Do it!...at least once(or twice since its a 2-day). Your first trackday will be pretty controlled anyway. Then if you want to do more, get or rent a smaller bike, they are better to learn on. 140hp middle weight/entry level bike my ass!

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    Last edited by timmyho414; 05-28-14 at 07:51 AM.
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    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    For the cost of renting a Ninjette 3 or 4 times, you could of bought one (250 or 500) or even an SV. Just something to keep in mind.

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    Posting Freak Karate.Snoopy's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
    For the cost of renting a Ninjette 3 or 4 times, you could of bought one (250 or 500) or even an SV. Just something to keep in mind.
    I agree with this, rental is about 275$ + 100$ to 150$ insurance, I rented once and did okay, although I was worried about dropping the bike once it got wet, mostly because I was concerned about my wallet.

    If I had the equipment (trailer,truck) & some spare cash I would just buy a track toy for less than 2k (plenty available on this forum and craigslist)

    I would add that if you are trying learn how your Duc works, the track is the best place to test it without pushing the envelope too far which I doubt you would in your first few sessions. Most folks do their first track day on their bike. You should be fine. But if you want to get into the game then do consider buying a track weapon

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    Last edited by Karate.Snoopy; 05-28-14 at 09:02 AM.

  8. #8
    my attitude matches yours GixxerJosh's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    Ask me about learning on a literbike

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  9. #9
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    If you are more concerned with building your skills as a street rider, go with the Ducati.

    If you are more concerned with learning to ride the track, go with the Ducati for your first event to make sure you like it (HA!), then buy an SV trackbike the next day.

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  10. #10
    I've been here before. Mustang's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    If you are more concerned with building your skills as a street rider, go with the Ducati.

    If you are more concerned with learning to ride the track, go with the Ducati for your first event to make sure you like it (HA!), then buy an SV trackbike the next day.
    My opinion would be more along these lines.

    My first dozen (?) trackdays were on my streetbike; including my first year (?) as a control rider. YOU control 95% of what happens at a trackday; of course you can't help if someone randomly decides to swerve into you, but pretty much all other incidents could have been avoided by you doing something different (similar to riding on the street...a street with no animals or other people). You can absolutely run your bike, or a rental bike, without damaging either. You can learn on both.

    After your first trackday, you will immediately be Valentino Rossi on NEITHER the 300 nor the Duc. If the two things you're hoping to get out of the experience are a beginning proficiency of track riding and to safely explore the performance envelope of your Ducati, you can only do both of those on the Duc.

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  11. #11
    Lifer Imbeek's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    What follows is what I did, and it is working ok for me so far...therefore I'd recommend you do the same:

    Do your first couple trackdays on your streetbike, taking it somewhat easy. As long as you don't personally (over)push it enough to bin it, it is highly unlikely anyone else will be taking you out at a trackday, so you can keep the risk of damaging your expensive-to-repair ducati within your own comfort level.

    Then, (if?) once you get addicted and start pushing a bit more, buy a used, nearly fully depreciated dedicated track bike, that has been crashed before and already has track bodywork, sliders, track case covers, aftermarket rearsets and clipons (all of which are designed to crash cheaply) preferably a sv650 or smaller but in no case more powerful than a four cylinder 600, and plan to keep it for a few years, to sell it down the road to the next guy for almost what you paid. It's like an almost free multiyear rental, done this way (everyone gotta pay for tires, crash damage, maintenance, no matter what bike you are using, but this minimizes depreciation AND cost of crash repair...minimizes tire expense and the likelihood of crashing too, while teaching you to ride better than a point and shoot superbike)

    All the skills learned on the track bike will transfer just fine to the duc on the street, even if you aren't using the duc on the track...and no one should be pushing on the street anywhere near faster track day levels, anyway.

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  12. #12
    13/f/MA/on period. Garrett's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?


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  13. #13
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    Quote Originally Posted by WHB View Post
    Reason for asking is that I had a somewhat similar experience in the past with cars: did several track days in my far-too-fast daily driver, with definitely made me a lot safer & more competent on the street, but I learned way more about being being on the track by racing a Mazda Miata. Ignoring the financial side of this decision, I see two lines of thinking
    I think your experience w/ bikes will very closely parallel with your prior experience with cars.

    Your Ducati would give you an excellent intro to the track and help you with your skills, but primarily it would teach you what that particular bike is capable of. It'll also help you exercise cautious risk management, as I'm sure you won't want to bin it.

    A Small track bike would be better at really honing and polishing your track skills and techniques without much worry of scratching it up.


    I took the same route Imbeek did... rode my street bike on the track for a year or two to get an intro to the track and learn about my and my bike's abilities. Then got a low powered, used track bike to really hone my skills and get into racing. Worked very well for me.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 05-29-14 at 07:09 PM.
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  14. #14

    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    Thanks all for the input! Sounds like I'm thinking about things the right way. I'll let everyone know what I decide.

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  15. #15
    Senior Member Viper897's Avatar
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    Re: Which bike to learn on?

    I tracked my gen 2 SV once last season and was instantly hooked, as OreoGaborio said using your street bike will make you exercise caution and you will make a much more incermental progression to seeing what you bike can do. I mean lets face it we don't want our street bikes scratched if we can help it. But as long as you get on your 848 and go out with the mindset to slowly increase your speed/lean angle as the day progresses, oh and LET YOUR TIRES GET TO TEMP, you will be fine.

    As for the skills transfering from track to street, absolutely 100% of the skills transfer. Well not the speed portion or dragging a knee, but learning to deal with things at speed slows everything down on the street and cause you to panic less. Knowing what your bike can do makes you look at riding differently, basically you no longer have to worry about thinking "Am I over riding my bike".

    In my experience: I did my first track day in Sept 2013 on my Gen 2 SV as I said, I was nervous at first but as the day progress so did I. Prior to coming to the track I was always very tense and stiff on the street, couldnt deal well with the unexpected and always felt things were coming by very fast. Post trackday I converted the bike back to street duty and What A Difference. Just within the first 10 miles back on the street I was loose on the bike, chicken wings for all you track day junkies, and when something unexpected happened I no longer panicked I remembered from the speed at the track that at street pace I had more than ample time to deal with the situation. I now have a Gen 1 track bike and am pursuing a similar path to get into racing.

    Hope this helps!

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