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Re: Body position for hard braking
Pete,
If you have the chance watch Eric Wood, Scott Greenwood, Rick Doucette, any of the single or two digit experts. A lot of them have there butt off the seat going into 3. Its the upper body which stays centered and then moves at the last moment. I was trying this towards the end of the season last year and it seemed to work. Just my 2 cents on it as it will not work for all.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Ductard, the throttle improvement are the RESULT of braking zone actions. These were all done on the same 125, the same day.
The 125 has no torque, so every loss of momentum on the brakes follows you down the next straight. That is why these are the best bikes to learn on.
All of you observations are true. I am using more gas between the linked corners to maintain rolling speed and that follows me down the straight. But we are talking about braking here, and the graphs do show big differences. The humps at the top of my line are rounder, meaning I transition from throttle to brake smoother and don't kill my momentum as soon as the others. I also get off the brakes sooner, which kills less speed and allows earlier throttle.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viper897
Pete,
If you have the chance watch Eric Wood, Scott Greenwood, Rick Doucette, any of the single or two digit experts. A lot of them have there butt off the seat going into 3. Its the upper body which stays centered and then moves at the last moment. I was trying this towards the end of the season last year and it seemed to work. Just my 2 cents on it as it will not work for all.
Pretty much what I try to do each time. Setup early that way you're not putting any extra force into the bike at a critical traction time. As Paul said earlier it also depends on the bike. I remember trying to demonstrate it to one of my garage mates while on my motard. I setup up for 3 where I would on a 600 and felt like I was hanging out there forever. On a 600 or bigger at NHMS you really shouldn't be sitting centered on the bike at anytime. Some of the quicker guys on the smaller bikes never sit center even though they do get a bit more time down the straights.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paul_E_D
I was implying that hanging off early in T3 can slow most people down, not that it was slowing Christian down.
We're saying the same thing.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
For people here who don't know me, that 19 is still 3 seconds slower than my former race pace on the same 125gp bike. We didn't have (affordable) gps data back then, but I would LOVE to see a comparison graph of my riding back then. No one has come close to the pace since then. I quit in 07.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
That 19 is still 2 seconds faster than I've gone with twice the HP or what, 47 times the torque? :D
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Re: Body position for hard braking
racing 125s looks like fun
I want to have fun
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Re: Body position for hard braking
a 125 gp bike is serious fun, but takes quite a few years to master. Once you can go fast on a 125, your skills are there. You can go fast on any bike with a small adjustment phase.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Paul, have you had a chance to ride one of the Moriwaki (sp?) 250 4 stroke GP bikes? Curious how they compare to the 125 GP bikes.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Are these bikes physically smaller? Can tall guys play?
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
isaac_
Where do I get one :)
You can start here...
USGPRU : View Forum - Classifieds
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Petorius
Are these bikes physically smaller? Can tall guys play?
Zack Courts is probably 6'2''+ and manhandled a 125 with Paul years ago. So yes you can totally play. I used to watch him turn the bike around by just picking it up!
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Re: Body position for hard braking
They are about 3/4 size. Tall guys can certainly play. I haven't gotten to ride a Moriwaki yet, but they are physically nearly identical. Just a little heavier. The motors seem underpowered and boring to me having ridden and raced some other 4 stroke singles. I also think you won't pay for your mistakes as severely on the 4 stroke, so it's not quite as sharp a learning tool. I guess they have come along with the motors, but I felt they should have gone with at least 350ccs.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
csmutty
I squeeze with both knees with my butt off to the right side of the seat. Then all I have to do is stick my knee out and...voila.
This was my observation too. I didn't really get it until I was able to watch the "fast guys" at a track day from up on the hill. From that vantage I was finally able to see what I think is riders being set up going into the chute but not opening their knee until tip in; the rest of their body doesn't move, just their leg.
I am so going to suck racing this year. I feel like I've forgotten everything. ... Except how great it felt.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viper897
Pete,
If you have the chance watch Eric Wood, Scott Greenwood, Rick Doucette, any of the single or two digit experts. A lot of them have there butt off the seat going into 3. Its the upper body which stays centered and then moves at the last moment. I was trying this towards the end of the season last year and it seemed to work. Just my 2 cents on it as it will not work for all.
My last track day in July I was fortunate enough to be following, I think, plate holder #9 and he setups up very early into T3. So I started to do it. Definitely prepped my body position to make the turn quicker. Stressed the legs much more too but I liked it.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viper897
Its the upper body which stays centered and then moves at the last moment. I was trying this towards the end of the season last year and it seemed to work. Just my 2 cents on it as it will not work for all.
I used this technique for the second half of the season as well, except going into 3. I move my butt off but keep the inside knee tight against the tank while braking, then extend the knee and move the upper body over as I tip in. It helped a bit with hard braking. I look crossed up on video until about half way to the apex.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
I know you beat my pants off. But I'm linking this anyway : 2014 LRRS Round 7 - Racing Is Life
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Can you tell where that was taken?
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Petorius
Can you tell where that was taken?
NHMS? :poke:
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Re: Body position for hard braking
After the exit of 12, onto the straight I would guess.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paul_E_D
I agree. the trail braking zone is very short in T3. It ends at the rumblestrip IMO. off the brakes and on the gas by the corner of the pavement patch.
Bingo
However, in a racing environment I often find myself braking a little bit deeper than that. When I do, I'll brake hard all the way to the corner of the patch, then immediately get back on the gas before the yellow line.
This is probably a slightly more defensive approach to T3... likely the result of being passed so many times in the T3 braking zone by Ricky, Scotty, Jesse, etc :lmao: It slows me down a little more than I like mid-corner (at/around the NASCAR transition), but it helps maximize entry speed up and allows me to start my braking just a little bit later.
At least, that's my theory.
Of course it also has a lot to do with the bike/rider combo and what their strengths/weaknesses are.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jasnmar
After the exit of 12, onto the straight I would guess.
I think you are right. I'm not a fan of hanging off for the whole straight, my hips get really tight after a lot of lapping and I like to rest them in the most neutral position possible going down the straight. Not to mention superior aerodynamics vs Colin.
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Re: Body position for hard braking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Petorius
Not to mention superior aerodynamics vs Colin.
Wow. Just wow. :lol:
That's exit of 12. Martin is behind the fence way, way back up the NASCAR T4 bank. From there you get a straight shot down the center of the track.
If you are intentionally re-centering on the bike, so beit. I thought maybe you were and weren't entirely aware of it. I've found myself doing things out of pure habit without realizing it. Sometimes that includes not setting up for a turn as early as I intend to. Or sitting in the middle of the seat the whole way down the front straight. If its intentional, carry on.
I'm sold on conserving energy and keeping a cheek off the whole way down the front. What I need to focus on is keeping my body straight and not crossing up.