Comparison of NHIS to the North Course at VIR

[Spyda]

Hi guys,

I just stared riding at the track this year and from what I understand from some of the NESBA control riders, I'm pretty lucky to be less than 2 hours away from VIR. I'm going to be moving up to Southern NH in a few months from NC and noticed that there isn't really much to choose from in the way of racetracks in NH. It's either NHIS or NHIS.

Could someone who's ridden both the North Course at VIR compare it to NHIS? I was looking at a couple videos of NHIS on youtube and the track surface looks kinda bumpy and broken up. If you had to rate the two tracks on a scale of 1 to 10 what would you give them?

This is my level of ability and I ride a heavy-ass VFR800.
***EDIT - I was going to insert a link here but evidently my post count is too low for me to do that, so if you care to see my 2nd track day go to youtube, type in "cfreson" into the search box and choose the VIR 7/9 vid (I was the one doing the recording in the other ones)***
I guess my bottom line questions are: will I have as much fun at NHIS as I do at VIR and is the NHIS track surface "safe" (i.e. do you just get used to it and it's no big deal or does it just blow and you deal with it?)

Thanks fellas and sorry for all the questions!

[schleppy]

More experienced people will chime in shortly, but here is my take from driving it in a car (I had a Miata track car). I have never driven NHIS before.

The course seems very old, and doesn't have a lot of the modern safety features of newer tracks (namely run off). The surface in some of the turns is definitely pretty bad (for a race course), but overall it's a pretty fun course to drive. I have yet to do it on two wheels, but I hear it isn't too bad.

[highsider]

Comparing NHIS to VIR is like....well, its like comparing a Hyundai to a Mercedes.

NHIS is a racetrack with no police, lots of corners, and decent pit facilities, so it can only be so bad. The motorcycle track seems like an afterthought to the NASCAR oval, and there are huge, unforgiving walls at the exits of most corners.

As has been pointed out before, its the best we have here in the Northeast. Which is, speaking only for myself, the only reason I go there.

[Puppet]

The motorcycle track is most definitely an afterthought to the NASCAR oval...


edited for you

[a13x]

NHIS as great paddock facilities, better than VIR.
VIR is a better overall racetrack (no real argument there) since it was built just a few years ago.

Riding wise, sections of VIR remind me of Loudon. Both have some real fun elevation, flowing corners, and reward good riders. Loudon is bumpier, tighter, and even more of a technical track, and much slower. No 150mph straightaway at NHIS.

I feel NHIS is a harder track to ride fast and learn tricks at (again, it's notorious for being a locals track). Learning the line at VIR was pretty damn easy compared to Loudon.

Yea Loudon has some run-off issues, but being a trackday rider you shouldn't be as worried about it. You aren't racing, so keep your head and you'll be fine.

I've ridden Loudon, VIR, and Barber and I've loved them all.

[TTD]

Yep, Alex pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I think riders that do well at NHIS can do very well at VIR North. Throw away that whole long straight area at VIR, and you have a tight, technical track... just like NHIS.

Feel free to join us for one of our events when you get here. You'll get to decide for yourself, and meet lots of the board members.

TonysTrackDays.com

[Spyda]

NHIS as great paddock facilities, better than VIR.
VIR is a better overall racetrack (no real argument there) since it was built just a few years ago.

Riding wise, sections of VIR remind me of Loudon. Both have some real fun elevation, flowing corners, and reward good riders. Loudon is bumpier, tighter, and even more of a technical track, and much slower. No 150mph straightaway at NHIS.

I feel NHIS is a harder track to ride fast and learn tricks at (again, it's notorious for being a locals track). Learning the line at VIR was pretty damn easy compared to Loudon.

Yea Loudon has some run-off issues, but being a trackday rider you shouldn't be as worried about it. You aren't racing, so keep your head and you'll be fine.

I've ridden Loudon, VIR, and Barber and I've loved them all.

Thanks. That's kinda what I figured. Do you think that the VFR going to be a problem there (being more technical and slower than VIR)?

[TTD]

Thanks. That's kinda what I figured. Do you think that the VFR going to be a problem there (being more technical and slower than VIR)?

We had a guy doing his first day with us on a VFR this past week.

We had to bump him two times... up to the fast group.

He had so much fun, He was going to try and get a VFR group together on one of his forums.

[Spyda]

We had a guy doing his first day with us on a VFR this past week.

We had to bump him two times... up to the fast group.

He had so much fun, He was going to try and get a VFR group together on one of his forums.

Sweet!! I love that bike, but I've been hesitant about investing a lot in track stuff with the thinking that I really shouldn't be tracking it anyway. I've been pretty comfortable on it, but the stock brake lines are pretty mushy by the end of the day. I'll probably just throw some braided ones on there and replace the plastics with rashed up ones from eBa - until I run into a bunch of money and/or convince my wife that I need a dedicated track bike,

Are you guys also in the same boat (December) as LAPS as far as your 2008 schedule in concerned?

By the way - do you knkow if the VFR guy you mentioned is on this forum?

[TTD]

Are you guys also in the same boat (December) as LAPS as far as your 2008 schedule in concerned?

By the way - do you knkow if the VFR guy you mentioned is on this forum?

Yeah, we all learn our schedules about the same time.

I don't think he is on this forum... and can't remember his name offhand or I'd pass your email addy along to him.

Also, our chief instructor, Ken Condon, used to ride a VFR so he can tell you a lot about them and their track ability.

Obviously, you know it's not the ideal track weapon, but as long as you ride it with that in mind, it can be a blast.

[Ken C]

I have ridden VIR twice and NHIS countless times. I really enjoyed VIR for its sweeping, fast corners and simply because it's different from NHIS. But, I have to say that I enjoy NHIS just as much.

The runoff issue should not concern a track day rider. If you were racing, then the odds of actually reaching the airfence due to higher speed is more likely, or for someone to bump you into a wall.

The surface is a challenge for those not used to it, but it's not dangerous. They do have to patch T12, though, which I hear is happening.

And the VFR is fine for running at NHIS. As you state, it's not a track bike, but who cares. Ask the guy on the 800 pound BMW RT or the two guys on the 250 Ninjas how much fun they had at the last track day (the smiles were very toothy) and you realize that what bike you bring doesn't have to matter. The VFR will drag its pegs, but some body positioning and smooth inputs make it a decent ride.

[Awesome]

I like both tracks, they are different rides though. In addition to what's been posted the major difference I notice between the two is at VIR I can finish a whole day on the track and feel refreshed, at NHIS I'm worn out and in need of sedation.

[xsiliconkid]

.

Learning the line at VIR was pretty damn easy compared to Loudon.

I've ridden Loudon, VIR, and Barber and I've loved them all.

Like you I have ridden Loudon (home track) VIR and Barber.

Loudon is much more "technical" than VIR... it throws everything at you except high speed sweepers... 20 - 30 minutes session at NHIS and you know you have been working hard- vs VIR...

Interesting enought Barber gearing is just about the same as Loudon... to make the straight and back work for me it's just one tooth down on the rear sprocket...

[xsiliconkid]

I have ridden VIR twice and NHIS countless times. I really enjoyed VIR for its sweeping, fast corners and simply because it's different from NHIS. But, I have to say that I enjoy NHIS just as much.

The runoff issue should not concern a track day rider. If you were racing, then the odds of actually reaching the airfence due to higher speed is more likely, or for someone to bump you into a wall.

The surface is a challenge for those not used to it, but it's not dangerous. They do have to patch T12, though, which I hear is happening.

And the VFR is fine for running at NHIS. As you state, it's not a track bike, but who cares. Ask the guy on the 800 pound BMW RT or the two guys on the 250 Ninjas how much fun they had at the last track day (the smiles were very toothy) and you realize that what bike you bring doesn't have to matter. The VFR will drag its pegs, but some body positioning and smooth inputs make it a decent ride.

and the guy on the gold wing this past two day event... Also had a SV. Rode that just one session -then the rest of the time loved the gold wing.... fun to sit behind:-)

[rolker]

The surface is a challenge for those not used to it, but it's not dangerous. They do have to patch T12, though, which I hear is happening.

And the VFR is fine for running at NHIS. As you state, it's not a track bike, but who cares. Ask the guy on the 800 pound BMW RT or the two guys on the 250 Ninjas how much fun they had at the last track day (the smiles were very toothy) and you realize that what bike you bring doesn't have to matter. The VFR will drag its pegs, but some body positioning and smooth inputs make it a decent ride.

I'm one of the guys on a Ninja 250, and I just completed my 4th and 5th trackdays at NHIS. I have not yet been to other tracks, but I find the surface at NHIS to be part of the challenge, without being dangerous.

As for the choice of bike, almost any bike is suitable for a track day. Since it's not a race, you are not competing against others. If you want to see it in terms of a competition, look at it as you against yourself, or you conquering the track. In other words, try to make your next lap better that your last one where better can mean fast, smoother, or whatever other goal you choose. Actually, those who do suggest I should get a "better" bike help motivate me to do the best I can with the equipment I do have!

Of course, a major part making NHIS enjoyable with Tony's Track Days is Tony and his staff. I always receive great advice from Ken, Pete (who races an EX500), and many others, including Tony himself. The cool this is that many of them hang out here so you can keep the discussions going between the track days. I don't have experience with other track day organizers, but I'm sure they provide similar enjoyable experiences as well.

So, I guess the bottom line is the track is what it is, and the bike is what it is, just but them together and enjoy!

[Doc]

This Rolker guy is awesome!!

[benVFR]

I dumped my VFR at NHIS a couple weeks ago.

If you were buying a bike with your main intention being track days you could pick something better... the VFR is expensive to fix, and there are no track plastics available as far as I can tell, and lots of the aftermarket parts that are popular at the track and cheaper then OEM Honda don't seem to be compatible.

So go for it.. however if your goal is to go a ton and eventually get really fast you might think twice.. cause it seems everyone crashes eventually.

I'm pretty sure I'd have rather been on an SV or a GSX-R if you told me I was going to crash.

[13]

My first year doing trackdays I used a tired old superhawk. It's another not-so-track oriented bike and I was dragging the pegs all over, but all in all, it was absolutely worth it. As long as you keep TRACKDAY in your head you can have an absolute blast on just about any bike out there. Take the VFR out there!

[LiononaLeash]

Something that has seemed to have gotten worse this year at NHIS is Turn 2 and Turn 11. ...and Yeah, as Ken said, Turn 12 needs to get patched.

In the rain(2 of my 3 trackdays were in the rain this year, the third one was rain for part of the day), Turn 2 seems to have a big oil slick that appears in the rain and runs down the bank. It doesn't matter if you are tight at the apex of 2, a few feet out, or 10 feet off the curb at the apex. You can actually see the slick running all the way down the bank. It's very dangerous and we had a LOT of crashes there this year(instructors were not spared these crashes either). Its almost like you have to come around 1A and keep to the right to start and getting your turning for turn 2 done early so you can get back to a mostly vertical position when you cross the "oil stripe of horror." I can't say much about T2 in the dry as I can't remember the last time I rode NHIS on a nice dry sunny day. I'm learning a lot about smoothness though, and that never hurts.

Turn 11 looks to have some newer pavement(I don't know when they redid that, anyone know?) that seems to still be a bit greasy. You can just feel that the traction isn't there. Obviously, it doesn't seem as bad as Turn 2, but we had lots of crashes there just the same. Again, this is in the wet. ...no idea what it feels like in the dry.


I'm hoping for a few dry track days in 2008.

[Ken C]

Yeah, T2 is slick, but it's quite possible to get through there without mishap. It's been that way for years.

T11 has been the same for quite some time and has plenty of traction. It is a bit smoother than the rest of the track and it's flat, which can contribute to more wet weather crashes.

BTW, Tony's days have been dry all year, except for an hour or so of mere dampness. I guess we've been lucky, huh?

[Paul_E_D]

The banking doesn't have oil, it has "high traction sealant" for NASCAR. The stuff is pretty slick in the rain.

I drag knee through 2 and 11 in the wet. It's all about knowing when to load the front, and when to lighten it up. You need the same technique to go really fast in the dry too. On DOTs in the wet, your line choice is critical, and there's a relatively small window in T2. Miss it a little, and you'll hydroplane the front, and boom.

[LiononaLeash]

Paul, you freak, you're fast anyway. I've seen you go(by me that is)!!

I need about a thousand more laps to figure this stuff out hehe.

I wonder what the regular sealant would have had for traction...?

[Paul_E_D]

1,000 laps a year for five years should do it!

[LiononaLeash]

Sounds like fun.