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I have been wasting a lot of valuable track time “joy-riding” and not focusing on the things I need to do to improve. In an effort to progress more quickly, I am going to start writing plans of attack before track events. I thought it would be cool to have a thread for like-minded riders to share their plans/objectives, provide feedback, and reflect on events after the fact. If nobody else is into it then I will continue doing this offline. Racers welcome.
TTD 7/28, NHMS
Objective - 1:30 Lap time
More corner speed
Enter corners faster than feels “comfortable”Use more lean angle to compensate, don’t worry about blowing a few cornersQuicker turn-inDelay turn-inHard bar input/try pulling on outside barLoose mid-corner, no subsequent inputsUse the knee as a gaugeTurning leftDrop head/shoulders, get the knee out and downTurning rightGet ass off the seat moreChange grip on throttle, hold like paint brushDrop head/shoulders, get the knee out and downLEAN IT OVERT2 and T12Support more weight on the outside peg, lift up a bit and let the seat come up to me
Better drives out
More shifting – figure out shifting between 2-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-11Twist it – throttle open as soon as lean angle is reduced
Nail down reference points
134-611
Pass more
Don’t hesitate to pass on the outside or late on the brakes2, 6 and 9 on the outside1 and 3 on the brakes11?
Don’t get distracted by faster riders
If someone is pulling away, use my plan, but be more precise and enter corners fasterLook at reference points, not directly at the faster rider
OK, that's a big list. You can't think about that every lap, or session, or day for that matter. Prioritize your list and simplify it into 3 things.
1.Entry
2. mid corner
3.exit
Work on one at a time
Work on entry speed first. Brake at a consistent mark that does NOT stress you out. To raise you entry speed, brake normally for the first half of the zone, then ease out of the brakes as if you are already trail braking. Arrive at tip in faster and with 10% braking power on. tip it in quickly releasing the brake simultaneously. Fully off the brakes as you hit max lean angle with relaxed arms. Do this exercise until you entry speed is consistently higher. Then you can move your brake marker forward step by step without freaking out.
Pulling on the outside bar should be rewritten as pushing on the inside bar. A push can be done without grasping and staying loose. A pull requires you go grip the bar more. The tighter you grip, the more negative input you may be putting on the bars. Most low-side crashes happen as the result of too much bar input.
In actuality. if you work on body position, leading with your head (while looking through corners), getting that inside shoulder down, you'll find that that you're automatically pushing on the inside bar, due to the position of your upper body.
I like this idea a lot, definitely going to try it, thanks!
This one seems similar to the blipping debate. Ken seems to like it and calls it "power steering", but I've never actually tried it.
If I'm reading that right, you mean find fixed reference marks like a pavement seam or a number board instead of temporary ones like taped Xs and cones? Are the cones in place during races? If so, are they always in exactly the same spots? I definitely use the cones at TTDs going into 3 at NHMS.
i mean dont say you need to find markers in T3, T6, etc. if you go to NYST, Thompson, or NJMP, you'll need to just learn a track. Dont fixate on specific turns at NHMS, because that will only improve you at NHMS. learn how to read the track more specifically. and to answer your question, LRRS rounds have the cones like the track days you've attended to, but they'll never be in the same exact spot each time. you need to look for cracks, tar snakes, patches, etc for markers. all other race tracks dont use cones during race events.
Actually, cones are usually in same place because there are marks on the pavement to put them down. Having said that, using cones as a permanent marker is not ideal, as the cone can be missing or knocked out of place, etc.
I absolutely use cones when they are present - but I make a new plan each day and adjust it according to what cones, marks, tape, etc is available that day.
As for bar input to initiate steering - I find lately that I am pressing on both bars hard while braking hard - and then I ease up on the appropriate side as I begin trailbraking. So for a LEFT hand turn, as I begin my trailbraking phase, I am dropping my left shoulder and head and easing my pressure on the right bar - which makes sense because my body is pulling away from that bar. I keep the braking pressure on the left bar and that seems to make the bike turn pretty nice.
Every corner is a little different so this is not happening in every corner though.
What Jim is saying is, a cone or tape can be moved. Whether it be on purpose or by a rider. A lot of times you will find that people hit the cones in one way or another. So to answer your question, NO cones are never in the exact same spot. They may be close but never exact. Also the cones are up during races. But again not wise to use them as a reference point.
PK had an interesting method of sliding forward in the saddle late in your braking and using this momentum to initiate the tip in. The idea is that it is advantageous to get weight over the front end while cornering, but keep it back while braking before that.
I've had a hard time with setup as I want to be centered on the machine while braking. I watch the "fast guys" and they all seem to setup very late, contrary to what the TD staff teach. When PK described this technique, it suddenly occurred to me that I was only seeing their shoulders and legs move. Their core was setup, but both knees were gripping the tank. At tip in you see them drop the shoulder and open up the knee in one fluid movement.. but the core of the body stays fixed.
My own goal is pretty simple: go faster!
Seriously though. I tend to pick a single goal and stick with it for at least a half day. Next Monday's goal is to carry more corner speed and/or get more comfortable with leaning the bike further over.
I'm also graduating from the idea of being waaaay off the bike. It's fun as hell, but I recognise that it isn't efficient and wears me out, causing me to loose focus and do stupid things I shouldn't. My secondary goal is to not hang so far off the bike just because I can.
Last edited by nhbubba; 07-23-14 at 04:35 PM.
my .02
.01) relax and stay loose
slow is smooth and smooth is fast
.02) don't stress thinking about all of those things, instead turn them into instincts
thinking takes time. time you are trying to eliminate.
My plan
1. Stop crashing
My plan...
Roll Speed. Roll Speed Roll Speed....![]()
LRRS/CCS Expert #820 / RSP Racing / Woodcraft / MTAG Pirelli / Dyno Solutions / Tony's Track Days / Sport Bike Track Gear / GMD Computrack /
-Pete LRRS/CCS #81 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays
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The Garage: '03 Tuono | '06 SV650
It is and it isn't so simple. Some people can get reasonably quick riding by feel or "instinct", but usually, instincts are opposite of the best techniques, and so training yourself to be accurate, consistent, and doing the right things at the right times is where it's at. You will certainly be slower for a while, but in the long run, you will have a solid skillset with which you can continue to progress. Feel riders hit a wall, and that's it. Unless they are willing to start over, they aren't going to continue improving.
^^^ That's exactly what I was getting at. My post was just a much more snarky way of putting it.
If I had instincts that let me ride "smooth and fast", I'd be there. I clearly don't. So how do I build those instincts. Something tells me attacking the problem incrementally and building those instincts (possibly sometimes called "skills") is probably the most efficient way to git 'er done. Attacking a problem incrementally requires a plan. And here we are.
Last edited by nhbubba; 07-24-14 at 07:03 AM.
I was a feel racer for years. I think it also has to do with me being female, but I definitely hit a wall. And it was hard to break my habits and become more calculated about my riding. Heck I am still struggling with it at times. The more it can be worked on, the better. A fellow racer has been taking detailed notes about what he has been working on.
I will be there Monday if you want to chat Pete. I like that you are thinking about all that you can do. Talking things through with Gino on Monday will help guide you as to what to work on now. See you in a few days!
You can take the girl outta Jersey.....
USCRA #75
Street- 03 Suzuki SV650
Track- 71 Honda CB350
Bill Cool --- CRA EX #47 --- 2023 NEMRR GTO Champion, 2020-21 LRRS LWSS Champion --- RSP Racing / TTD / MTAG-Pirelli / Woodcraft / Sportbike Track Gear / Seacoast Sport Cycle
FWIW, the progress I've made at the track in the past two seasons came from identifying what prevented me from having good body position. Once you find a corner where you have a solid BP, all the good things happen more easily. Everything seemed OK with my BP during garage seminars with the staff, here are some of the issues I found riding the track:
- NHMS T3 and T6: when I look too far ahead up a hill, my head rises and my inside arm starts to press down on the bar, slowing down the turn. Better RPs helped manage a better BP.
- braking too hard: stiff arms, BP suffers. Popping up from a tucked position helps balance the braking forces and stay relaxed.
- balls of the feet on the end of the pegs: this is amazing how it gets the toes/knee/hip pointed the right way and creates much needed space for a relaxed inside arm.
- denial: I thought I was doing BP just fine years ago, and focused on other stuff, which made the learning process much slower.
I got more, but I'll stop here.
I was getting way off the bike to avoid dragging pegs when I had the handlebar and stock footrests (see avatar). I made an effort to stop doing that on my new setup, now I'm back to not dragging knee but I find myself able to finish every session during 2 day events. I feel like it does save a lot of energy. Hip tightness is now limiting my endurance more than anything else.
Paul, would you recommend doing this exercise for every corner, just a few, or just one at time? I'm thinking I can probably recover to near 100% focus before 1, 3, 6, and 11 at NHMS if thats the only thing I'm working on in a given session.
I would say, if you just work on this one thing, start with T1 and T6 and give yourself the whole rest of the lap to ride as normal. Add in T3 and 11 later as those are a bit tougher and have less runoff should you need to go wide.
BTW, if you need to go wide, just do so. Don not try to recover the line. That's when you will go down.
Bill Cool --- CRA EX #47 --- 2023 NEMRR GTO Champion, 2020-21 LRRS LWSS Champion --- RSP Racing / TTD / MTAG-Pirelli / Woodcraft / Sportbike Track Gear / Seacoast Sport Cycle